The concept of Hell backslid me into agnosticism again

[Mustang56]

For the last few months I tried learning more about Christ, praying every night, and really feeling this great inner peace trying to live how Christ wanted you to live. There is no doubt that Jesus' teachings on how to live are an excellent way to live life to the purest. Even as I slip back into agnosticism for now, I'll still try to abide by some of his guidelines until I convince myself to choose to be a believer or not.

But one notion always made me backslide. Hell.

At first, I feared that I would be one of the so called Christians that Christ would judge on Judgement Day and to tell me to depart from him even if I called him Lord. I realized I had to live by his commandments as well as repent. To make him Lord of my life, to live by his ways.

That's great, and I felt I was starting to kick some sin out of my life, but now I've come across a distressing predicament. My family's fate.

My family is your typical so called Christian family. Celebrate Easter, Christmas, have holy bread on Christmas Eve, they go to church maybe once a year just to have some food for the Eve blessed. But they don't really confess their faith or live like Jesus. My family is Catholic, so my mother will recite the Lord's prayer every night but I doubt she puts her heart into it sometimes, it's just repetitive and hollow.

Now as I understand it, THESE are the types of people Christ will tell to depart from him. So my own family that I love so much would suffer in hell for ETERNITY. I couldn't handle interacting with my family for a few days, just thinking of them being good family to me that they'd be one day burning forever. It got me angry. How could I enjoy heaven when every second of eternity they'd be suffering in hell? They did nothing wrong, they raised me with love, always offered to help no matter what. My mother even took my father's children he had with his deceased first wife.

She took them in out of love, they're still married today, and my family is close for the most part. I unconditionally love them, but how could God expect me to rejoice in heaven if they won't be with me?

I tried praying for them but nothing changes. I can't change their minds either, they actually thought I was joining a cult because I bought a crucifix necklace and a Bible. Can you believe that? That's how laid back their "Christian" lifestyle is.

Long story short, I'm sure all of you encountered this problem. Loved ones in hell. How can I enjoy heaven without them? Some say God will erase memories of my family so that I don't grieve. At that point, I'm not even ME anymore. Just a shell of what I was.

I also think the notion of ETERNAL damnation is what caused many people over the last 2000 years to truly fear the religion and not risk avoiding it. Zoroastrianism was almost a copy cat religion of Christianity/Judaism (if it wasn't first, that is), but its idea of universal salvation probably lead to a more laid back belief.

 

[aiki]

For the last few months I tried learning more about Christ, praying every night, and really feeling this great inner peace trying to live how Christ wanted you to live. There is no doubt that Jesus' teachings on how to live are an excellent way to live life to the purest. Even as I slip back into agnosticism for now, I'll still try to abide by some of his guidelines until I convince myself to choose to be a believer or not.

Being a Christian, a follower of Christ, isn't about having admiration for his life "guidelines" but having love for his person. Becoming a Christian doesn't occur simply because one attends a church, or is born into a "Christian" family, or happens to approve of some of the doctrines of Christianity. One becomes a Christian only one way:

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Did you believe and accept that Jesus is Lord - and not just Lord in a general sense but Lord of you personally? Did you believe and accept that Jesus is your Saviour from your sin? Did you believe that he died on a cross in payment of your sin and rose again from the dead? It is faith in these facts by which you obtain your salvation and truly become a Christian.

At first, I feared that I would be one of the so called Christians that Christ would judge on Judgement Day and to tell me to depart from him even if I called him Lord. I realized I had to live by his commandments as well as repent. To make him Lord of my life, to live by his ways.

But the Bible is very clear that we do so out of love for Christ, not out of fear.

1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

My family is your typical so called Christian family. Celebrate Easter, Christmas, have holy bread on Christmas Eve, they go to church maybe once a year just to have some food for the Eve blessed. But they don't really confess their faith or live like Jesus. My family is Catholic, so my mother will recite the Lord's prayer every night but I doubt she puts her heart into it sometimes, it's just repetitive and hollow.

Now as I understand it, THESE are the types of people Christ will tell to depart from him. So my own family that I love so much would suffer in hell for ETERNITY. I couldn't handle interacting with my family for a few days, just thinking of them being good family to me that they'd be one day burning forever. It got me angry. How could I enjoy heaven when every second of eternity they'd be suffering in hell? They did nothing wrong...

No one is in hell because they are innocent of wrongdoing. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," the Bible says. And this is why people go to hell. Your family members won't be in hell because of the good things they did, but because of the bad things they did.

I'm sure your family is loving, and generous, and supportive of you, but God is perfectly holy and demands that same righteous, holy perfection from us. The only way we can obtain that kind of perfect righteousness, however, is through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

So, let me ask you: If one of your family members comes down with a cold, do you refuse to be happy while they are sick? If one of the members of your family breaks a leg and is in hospital, do you refrain from enjoying anything till that family member is better? It should horrify you that your family members live in danger of eternal hell. It should provoke you to be praying for their salvation constantly and passionately. But you aren't responsible for their choices and you aren't obliged to suffer because they refused God's offer of salvation. They have the same freedom and the same opportunity to accept Christ that you do. God is not hiding the gift of salvation from them. He is not being unfair to them. They are simply choosing to reject His gift, which is their fault, not God's.

they raised me with love, always offered to help no matter what. My mother even took my father's children he had with his deceased first wife.

She took them in out of love, they're still married today, and my family is close for the most part. I unconditionally love them, but how could God expect me to rejoice in heaven if they won't be with me?

I think you underestimate the wonder and joy of being in heaven and the powerful impact of being directly in the presence of God. If you think the pangs of sorrow you might feel for your lost family could overwhelm all the joy that heaven brings, you don't really understand heaven.

God only does what is just and right - which includes how He deals with your family members. You will see this with perfect clarity when you stand before Him. You will see that God has only done right in the judgment He renders upon all those who do not love Him and have rejected His wondrous gift of salvation.

Selah.

 

[Faulty]

Long story short, I'm sure all of you encountered this problem. Loved ones in hell. How can I enjoy heaven without them? Some say God will erase memories of my family so that I don't grieve. At that point, I'm not even ME anymore. Just a shell of what I was.

I have relatives that I have no reason not to believe they are in hell, but why would that mean I'd want to join them?

God gave them a choice, and they chose foolishly. It would do no good for them or me to choose foolishly as well.

Luke 16 tells of a reals even that Jesus told us about, a rich man who was in hell after he died and is still there to this day awaiting judgment. One of his desires was that his family be warned of that place, not to go there as he did. It's a given that if your relatives, or mine for that matter, ever even cared for us, their desire would also be that we NOT follow them there. Respect their desires and repent of your own sins, then seek to warn others of the awaiting flames as well.

 

[The Unorthodox Orthodox]

In my denomination (Orthodoxy) Heaven and Hell are the same thing;
The reunion of the soul with God.
The good and pure ones will experience this reunion as Heaven, while the evil and misotheists as Hell.
From what I hear, your family is nor evil nor misotheist so do not worry.

But denominations aside, do not worry about your loved ones.
God is just. He will not "send" anyone to Hell by mistake.

 

[paul1149]

The issue isn't hell. The issue is God.

Abraham asked rhetorically, "will not the judge of the whole earth do what is right?"

When you make worship conditioned on what God does with your family, you are judging God. You are saying that you, the one He made, and now fallen, has more moral sensibility than He, the one who not only created you, but who came down here and freely submitted himself to a horrendous death on the cross for your sake.

Doesn't that sound seriously out of wack to you? It should.

I could prove to you that God by the word is far more understanding in His judgments than many Christians using that same word give Him credit for. But that's not the point. The point is whether you will trust God implicitly, not knowing the full picture. Whether you will say, You are worthy, and I will love you and I will walk with you even if I can't understand.

Otherwise you will remain on the outside, mouthing meaningless things like "Christ was a great moral teacher...", never having inner peace and a satisfied soul - and never letting Him "know" you.

 

[SkepticMan1337]

Hell should make you skeptical of Christianity. There is NOTHING that Christians can say that can justify its "existence", especially "crimes" of apostasy. Just read these posts and seriously analyse them, any one of these posters that tries to rationalize it, makes it worst. I'm not going to go through these claims posted here (unless someone wishes to direct something at me) because if you're already somewhat skeptical, I think it'll take just a little scrutinizing on your behalf to see there claims as hogwash.

 

[bling]

What makes you so sure God will not save them?

Heaven is one huge Love Feast, but that “Love” is not a selfish type of love, but a totally unselfish type of Love. While here on earth God has and is extending to all mature adults all the opportunities they need to accept or reject this Godly type Love. Those that continue to reject Godly type Love to the point of never wanting that kind of Love (they enjoy a selfish type of love only), those people would not be happy in heaven (it’s a Love Feast) nor will they like hell, but where else is there in the spiritual realm?

If they are not happy with the way heaven is, can God change it to a place of selfish type love (this seems to be the way Muhammad described it)? (Could God be in such a place?)

If you create a world with only selfish people (all the selfless people are with God) and no God what would that be like? Who would you want to send there?

The flames of hell cannot be put out but that does not mean everything that goes there will not burn up. The only people with eternal life will be found in heaven.

 

[bling]

Hell should make you skeptical of Christianity. There is NOTHING that Christians can say that can justify its "existence", especially "crimes" of apostasy. Just read these posts and seriously analyse them, any one of these posters that tries to rationalize it, makes it worst. I'm not going to go through these claims posted here (unless someone wishes to direct something at me) because if you're already somewhat skeptical, I think it'll take just a little scrutinizing on your behalf to see there claims as hogwash.

You can read my comments and answer my questions and we can discuss.

 

[Timothew]

You don't have to believe in hell to be a christian. Just saying.
There are a lot of christians who don't.

 

[SkepticMan1337]

What makes you so sure God will not save them?

Heaven is one huge Love Feast, but that “Love” is not a selfish type of love, but a totally unselfish type of Love. While here on earth God has and is extending to all mature adults all the opportunities they need to accept or reject this Godly type Love. Those that continue to reject Godly type Love to the point of never wanting that kind of Love (they enjoy a selfish type of love only), those people would not be happy in heaven (it’s a Love Feast) nor will they like hell, but where else is there in the spiritual realm?

If they are not happy with the way heaven is, can God change it to a place of selfish type love (this seems to be the way Muhammad described it)? (Could God be in such a place?)

If you create a world with only selfish people (all the selfless people are with God) and no God what would that be like? Who would you want to send there?

The flames of hell cannot be put out but that does not mean everything that goes there will not burn up. The only people with eternal life will be found in heaven.

Since you've ask me to respond I will. However I find your post extremely confusing. A few things need to be cleared up. Firstly, What is hell to YOU? What I mean by that is, do you actually believe in a place that exists to torment you for eternity or burn forever? What version of hell do you believe in? For instance, there are some that believe merely being separated from God in spirit is Hell. What is your view? Lets start with that, and move from there.

 

[bling]

Since you've ask me to respond I will. However I find your post extremely confusing. A few things need to be cleared up. Firstly, What is hell to YOU? What I mean by that is, do you actually believe in a place that exists to torment you for eternity or burn forever? What version of hell do you believe in? For instance, there are some that believe merely being separated from God in spirit is Hell. What is your view? Lets start with that, and move from there.

Nonbelievers do not have eternal life, so they could not “live” forever in hell. There are lots of old threads on this subject in the Christian section, but bottom line hell burns up what has been cast into it. Christ and the Bible does talk about “degrees” of punishment and maybe there is no real punishment for some, so the really wicked people might suffer longer before being consumed.

 

[SkepticMan1337]

Nonbelievers do not have eternal life, so they could not “live” forever in hell. There are lots of old threads on this subject in the Christian section, but bottom line hell burns up what has been cast into it. Christ and the Bible does talk about “degrees” of punishment and maybe there is no real punishment for some, so the really wicked people might suffer longer before being consumed.

I really don't care what other threads say, we're talking about you and your beliefs, I want to make that clear. So if I understand you correctly, as a nonbeliever I will be cast into hell and then burnt up until I no longer exist. That is that what you basically believe?

 

[Christian-Catholic]

For the last few months I tried learning more about Christ, praying every night, and really feeling this great inner peace trying to live how Christ wanted you to live. There is no doubt that Jesus' teachings on how to live are an excellent way to live life to the purest. Even as I slip back into agnosticism for now, I'll still try to abide by some of his guidelines until I convince myself to choose to be a believer or not.

But one notion always made me backslide. Hell.

At first, I feared that I would be one of the so called Christians that Christ would judge on Judgement Day and to tell me to depart from him even if I called him Lord. I realized I had to live by his commandments as well as repent. To make him Lord of my life, to live by his ways.

That's great, and I felt I was starting to kick some sin out of my life, but now I've come across a distressing predicament. My family's fate.

My family is your typical so called Christian family. Celebrate Easter, Christmas, have holy bread on Christmas Eve, they go to church maybe once a year just to have some food for the Eve blessed. But they don't really confess their faith or live like Jesus. My family is Catholic, so my mother will recite the Lord's prayer every night but I doubt she puts her heart into it sometimes, it's just repetitive and hollow.

Now as I understand it, THESE are the types of people Christ will tell to depart from him. So my own family that I love so much would suffer in hell for ETERNITY. I couldn't handle interacting with my family for a few days, just thinking of them being good family to me that they'd be one day burning forever. It got me angry. How could I enjoy heaven when every second of eternity they'd be suffering in hell? They did nothing wrong, they raised me with love, always offered to help no matter what. My mother even took my father's children he had with his deceased first wife.

She took them in out of love, they're still married today, and my family is close for the most part. I unconditionally love them, but how could God expect me to rejoice in heaven if they won't be with me?

I tried praying for them but nothing changes. I can't change their minds either, they actually thought I was joining a cult because I bought a crucifix necklace and a Bible. Can you believe that? That's how laid back their "Christian" lifestyle is.

Long story short, I'm sure all of you encountered this problem. Loved ones in hell. How can I enjoy heaven without them? Some say God will erase memories of my family so that I don't grieve. At that point, I'm not even ME anymore. Just a shell of what I was.

I also think the notion of ETERNAL damnation is what caused many people over the last 2000 years to truly fear the religion and not risk avoiding it. Zoroastrianism was almost a copy cat religion of Christianity/Judaism (if it wasn't first, that is), but its idea of universal salvation probably lead to a more laid back belief.

Look first of all your looking at this all wrong. Your looking at Gods mercy like he is some kind of dictator. He isn't. Remember Jesus said his yoke is easy not hard . Your thinking of Gods love, mercy and forgiveness in human terms.
Remember the bible days Gods ways aren't our ways , us repetitive prayers aren't bad, as a catholic I know this from Christian history. The key is to put heart behind the prayers . Are you sure u know what's in your moms heart when she prays?

When I notice a family memember slipping, I'll gently bring it up to them. If that doesn't work then I will pray every night for God to forgive their sins and transform them. Also don't forget to ask your earthly family (us) as well as your heavenly family to pray for them for does it nit say that the prayers of the righteous carry great weight with God and don't the angels in heaven carry our prayers to the altar of God and who is more righteous our earthly family that hasn't been purged of our sins completely of out heavenly family who have been made more righteous then we could ever be in earth.

It shows that you really love your family and God loves that about you. Let's all pray for them and don't forget to ask all the angels and saints in heaven to pray for them also.


God bless you my friend

 

[Christian-Catholic]

I really don't care what other threads say, we're talking about you and your beliefs, I want to make that clear. So if I understand you correctly, as a nonbeliever I will be cast into hell and then burnt up until I no longer exist. That is that what you basically believe?

If you seek him with an open heart you will find him, it's his promise to us, but if you seek him with a hardened heart it's like your telling God "I could care less of your there or not". This reminded me of a discussion I once had with a non believer about the shroud of Turin . No matter how compelling the evidence (scientific and historical) was for it's authenticity he refused to believe.

He finally went on his merry way, ignored the shroud completely and stubbornly found other areas to debate with believers. He refused out of the hardness of his heart and his stubbornness to even consider any evidence.
God would say to a person like this "you obviously don't want to believe in me and don't care to be in heaven with me, so I will grant your wish" for in the end god will not violate our free will choices.

To me he'll is being separated from God who is love itself, truth itself and justice itself
If you hate God I can only imagine how you will feel if you meet Satan

 

[bling]

I really don't care what other threads say, we're talking about you and your beliefs, I want to make that clear. So if I understand you correctly, as a nonbeliever I will be cast into hell and then burnt up until I no longer exist. That is that what you basically believe?

Yes

 

[servant9901]

For the last few months I tried learning more about Christ, praying every night, and really feeling this great inner peace trying to live how Christ wanted you to live. There is no doubt that Jesus' teachings on how to live are an excellent way to live life to the purest. Even as I slip back into agnosticism for now, I'll still try to abide by some of his guidelines until I convince myself to choose to be a believer or not.

But one notion always made me backslide. Hell.

At first, I feared that I would be one of the so called Christians that Christ would judge on Judgement Day and to tell me to depart from him even if I called him Lord. I realized I had to live by his commandments as well as repent. To make him Lord of my life, to live by his ways.

That's great, and I felt I was starting to kick some sin out of my life, but now I've come across a distressing predicament. My family's fate.

My family is your typical so called Christian family. Celebrate Easter, Christmas, have holy bread on Christmas Eve, they go to church maybe once a year just to have some food for the Eve blessed. But they don't really confess their faith or live like Jesus. My family is Catholic, so my mother will recite the Lord's prayer every night but I doubt she puts her heart into it sometimes, it's just repetitive and hollow.

Now as I understand it, THESE are the types of people Christ will tell to depart from him. So my own family that I love so much would suffer in hell for ETERNITY. I couldn't handle interacting with my family for a few days, just thinking of them being good family to me that they'd be one day burning forever. It got me angry. How could I enjoy heaven when every second of eternity they'd be suffering in hell? They did nothing wrong, they raised me with love, always offered to help no matter what. My mother even took my father's children he had with his deceased first wife.

She took them in out of love, they're still married today, and my family is close for the most part. I unconditionally love them, but how could God expect me to rejoice in heaven if they won't be with me?

I tried praying for them but nothing changes. I can't change their minds either, they actually thought I was joining a cult because I bought a crucifix necklace and a Bible. Can you believe that? That's how laid back their "Christian" lifestyle is.

Long story short, I'm sure all of you encountered this problem. Loved ones in hell. How can I enjoy heaven without them? Some say God will erase memories of my family so that I don't grieve. At that point, I'm not even ME anymore. Just a shell of what I was.

I also think the notion of ETERNAL damnation is what caused many people over the last 2000 years to truly fear the religion and not risk avoiding it. Zoroastrianism was almost a copy cat religion of Christianity/Judaism (if it wasn't first, that is), but its idea of universal salvation probably lead to a more laid back belief.

Friend its not what you think its what God thinks and says..

God's Word is truth and we have a choice whether to believe God and obey Him and be Saved,
or not to believe Him and continue in our sinful rebellion and perish..

The choice us ours and where we spend our eternity depends my friend on the choice we make here on this earth while we have life and breath to do so..

God loves you, He loves your family, He loves us all and gave all that we might be saved

what was that all

His precious sinless Son Jesus Christ

Jesus was willing and obedient to go to the cross and take my sins and your sins and the sins of this whole world upon Himself and pay for them with His life and His blood

thats how much God loves us all

my friend there is NO Unrighteousness in God

He is Holy

He cannot sin

so to insinuate that if hell last forever that you dont want to serve HIM

Is a man more just than God? Is he more pure than His maker? Job

NO NO NO

We are nothing born into sin and deserving of hell ..but thank God that He is a a merciful and gracious God who loved us so much that He made a way for US ALL that we might not perish but obey Him and be saved


God has done all to save mankind

the decision now lies in each soul ..who does He want to serve

God or satan

on the day of Judgment no lost soul will have an excuse why they didnt get saved

why

because Christ Jesus the Saviour gave His life for ALL

And friend u are included

dont let satan cheat you out of God's gift to you
eternal life

in Christ' Service
Servant

 

[SkepticMan1337]

Yes

Okay, good. My second question is this; Do you believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing God? Someone who knows the past, present, future. Has immeasurable power. All that kind of stuff? If not, what is the concept of God to you?

This reminded me of a discussion I once had with a non believer about the shroud of Turin . No matter how compelling the evidence (scientific and historical) was for it's authenticity he refused to believe.

Alright, you got me. You really, really, got me to bite. What evidence proves the shroud of Turin's authenticity?

If you hate God I can only imagine how you will feel if you meet Satan

I don't hate God or Satan. I don't believe in either of them. There's a difference.

 

[bling]

Okay, good. My second question is this; Do you believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing God? Someone who knows the past, present, future. Has immeasurable power. All that kind of stuff? If not, what is the concept of God to you?

There are just some things that cannot be done so even God cannot do them. One of those things is to create a being that has always existed (like another Christ). This relates to us in that we cannot be created with Godly type Love since instinctive or programmed love would be a robotic type love. God cannot force His Love on us since that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. So for us to obtain Godly type Love (really to be like God) we have to of our own free will accept God’s Love as the pure charity that it is.

God is compelled By His Love to do all that he does, so Love is the most powerful force in the universe (but God is Love).

As far as “knowing” the future it is our “future” we are talking about with God living in His own time frame and not limited to our time ( our sequence of events). God could thus “today” (in our time frame) have information from Himself in our future concerning our free will decisions made in our future.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Okay, good. My second question is this; Do you believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing God? Someone who knows the past, present, future. Has immeasurable power. All that kind of stuff? If not, what is the concept of God to you?



Alright, you got me. You really, really, got me to bite. What evidence proves the shroud of Turin's authenticity?



I don't hate God or Satan. I don't believe in either of them. There's a difference.

There are hundreds of peer reviewed research papers on the shroud. I would start at shroud.com first and work from there. after your done with shroud.com you can then check out Stephen Jones 2 websites
Stephen E. Jones: Shroud of Turin links

His blog The Shroud of Turin Stephen has put 18 years into researching the Shroud.

First evidence is that forensic experts have determined that this image was caused by a body. No one else but Christ in recorded history was crucified in this manner. Microscopic pollen has many flower species found on the shroud that comes from the jerusalem region and only bloom in spring. Microscopic research found a rare limestone that is only found from the caves of Jerusalem. It is not a painting, it is not a scorch and its not a photgraph. No added substances were added to form that image. What the sturp team found in 1978 was that there was a chemical change in the linen from some momentous event that formed this image.

In 1988 a c14 test was done and determined the date of the shroud to be from the middle ages, but that was later invalidated by Agnostic Chemist Ray Rogers from Los Alamos labs and his research took 7 months to get published in the peer reviewed journal Thermochimica Acta which showed that the c14 sample was no representative of the rest of the cloth. Vanillin test applied by Ray Rogers showed that the c14 sample tested positive for vanillin while the rest of the shroud tested negative. This showed that the c14 sample was alot newer than the rest of the Shroud, and the rest of the shroud was dated by the vanillin test to be between 1300 and 3000 years old (well within the timeline of Jesus). The bloodstains on the shroud match the blood stains on the head region of the shroud perfectly, which means that the shroud is at least as old as the sudarium, and the sudarium has an indisputable history going back to the late 400's to the mid 500's. In 470 a historical writing puts it in the cave of saint mark in Jerusalem in 470ad. the shroud has 3d spatial information encoded into the image and it disappates at 10 centimeters which is an indication that the image wasnt formed by body to cloth contact while the blood stains and the faint flower images were formed by contact with the shroud. Microscopic dirt found on the knees are indictative of the man falling (exactly as how the gospels describe Jesus falling). The shroud has xray information in the hand,wrist, femur and parts of the head region to where you can actually see the teeth.

Throughout most of its history the Shroud was just a faint image on a burial shroud. No one knew about all of its unique qualities till an amateur photographer segundo pia was comissioned to take the first photographs of the shroud. What he found on his negative plate shocked him so much that he almost dropped the plate., Instead of a negative image on the plate there was a positive image which tells us that the shroud image is a negative itself. This was when scientists from all over the world started to take an interest in it. In the early 1930's an AGNOSTIC expert in human anatomy Ives Delage went up in front of his colleagues at the french academy and declared the evidence to be so strong that this can only be the image of the historic Jesus Christ. His colleagues boo'ed but he told them that if his conclusion was about any other man they would have accepted it easily, but because he said it was Jesus, an emotional response was added where none needed to be.

If you want all of the evidences for its authenticity there arent enough pages on this website to fill it with .

We dont even have the technology today to recreate the shroud image . In 2009 an atheist scientist was funded by the atheist group of Italy to try to recreate the shroud. When he was done the media was all over it.
Shroud recreated, proof its a Fraud!!!!!! was all over the net , but a little while later when the media hype died down and people actually examined the image, it didnt even come close. It possesses NONE of the unique characteristics of the real Shroud and suddenly all of the atheists that were crying fraud became silent. Of course the media didnt print the examination of the recreated shroud copy and many after still have the headline of shroud is a fraud in their heads.

It is only after a complete and deep study of the shroud that u will be able to come to a rational conclusion of who is on the shroud.
I have studied it for close to 4 years now and im still learning things from it.
How could an image like this form with no body to cloth contact? Why does the hair on the images head appear as if he is not in a vertical position. Why is the dorsal image showing that the body was absolutely not crushed against the tomb?
Youve got your first bread crumb. The rest of the journey is up to you whether you choose to follow it with an open mind or will you keep clinging emotionally to your atheism
Good luck and God bless

 

[SkepticMan1337]

There are just some things that cannot be done so even God cannot do them. One of those things is to create a being that has always existed (like another Christ). This relates to us in that we cannot be created with Godly type Love since instinctive or programmed love would be a robotic type love. God cannot force His Love on us since that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. So for us to obtain Godly type Love (really to be like God) we have to of our own free will accept God’s Love as the pure charity that it is.

God is compelled By His Love to do all that he does, so Love is the most powerful force in the universe (but God is Love).

As far as “knowing” the future it is our “future” we are talking about with God living in His own time frame and not limited to our time ( our sequence of events). God could thus “today” (in our time frame) have information from Himself in our future concerning our free will decisions made in our future.

Far out, you make it so hard to understand your point of view. However let me try and understand at least one thing. When I die will I be judged by God? Please try to give me a YES or NO answer.