The character of God

[TreeOfLife]

Absolutely!

One of the most productive uses of my time was to do a word study on "good" in the Bible. It NEVER NEVER NEVER means anything other than what you or I would mean in a commonsense way of saying good.

Good means good.

It is the same with these people that mean God is sovereign. They mean something so far removed from a dictionary definition of the word they maul the language as well as a Biblical theology.

Rabbie Burns, the Scots poet, once wrote a poem about why he never followed Christianity. It basically ended with the conclusion that the Christian God was a monster.

Of course, being in Scotland, the "Christian" god was the god of Calvinism, the sovereign, good god of predestination.

So then why do you feel the need to condemn your brothers and sisters who believe that Calvinisim is far superior to Arminianism, even if they don't call themselves Calvinist? (none of the isms are perfect)

You and LRB are both dangerously close to promoting nothing but mere deism, but I'm not going to put you down in the gutter for it.

It's time to stop this hogwash. It's nothing but heresy hunting.

 

[JimfromOhio]

After reading some of the posts in this thread, my first thoughts are: Are we corrupting our thoughts with our wishful Character of God? God knows everything as Psalm 50:11 says: "I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine." People who don't really know God will be part of this verse: Psalm 73:11 "They say, 'How can God know? Does the Most High have knowledge?' " God tests every hearts of every believers: Psalm 139:23 "Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts."

Knowing God completely is not possible just because we have seen the Character of Jesus. When Jesus was on earth, He didn't create because He already created us with His Father. Psalm 139:6 "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain."

We are to respect God with fear (not as in afraid, but as God who is bigger than the universe). Proverbs 2:5 "You will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." In Revelations 21:6 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End." In the Old Testament, expecially in Exodus is all about God. God's activity and throughout the whole course of the book you see God mightily at work. If you understood what the Tabernacle is, the message of the book of Exodus is that by means of the cross, God has made it possible for a holy, unchangeable God to dwell with us. The whole of the tabernacle is a picture of God's dwelling with his people.

If we think we have the right image of God and when we approach that image, we feel a sense of awe that will confuse other people. We are living in the times of confusion and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the false from the true.

I will repeat:
We are to be in praising God all of His works and all of His attributes, NOT PARTS. We cannot ignore one part of God and focus only the other part of God, because if we do that, we are NOT following EVERY word of God as truth worshippers. God is absolutely powerful, that God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, that God is immutable, never changes, that God is all wise, perfectly just, holy, righteous. God is causing all things to work together for our good, which means our eternal glory because we love God because He first loved us and purposed to bring us to His Great Glory.

Allow the Holy Spirit to teach you and lead you to understand God better from God's perspective rather than our perspective.

 

[KingZzub]

So then why do you feel the need to condemn your brothers and sisters who believe that Calvinisim is far superior to Arminianism, even if they don't call themselves Calvinist? (none of the isms are perfect)

You and LRB are both dangerously close to promoting nothing but mere deism, but I'm not going to put you down in the gutter for it.

It's time to stop this hogwash. It's nothing but heresy hunting.

I believe and preach the God of miracles who is active in the world today and always responds to our faith in His grace.

That is world's away from deism. So far away that the comparison cannot even be made.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

 

[TreeOfLife]

I believe and preach the God of miracles who is active in the world today and always responds to our faith in His grace.

That is world's away from deism. So far away that the comparison cannot even be made.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

Oh contraire. You are espousing a God who's hands are tied by the mere thoughts of His own creation. You exhault the feeble mind of man over the majesty and power of the self-existant, and yes sovreign, King of the Universe. That's as much deism as the one who goes a step further and denys that God is even aware of what happens in His own creation.

Let one person say even one thing against the heresies that have been produced from the WoF camp and they are denegrated as heresy hunters, but then you would turn and do the very same thing against those of us who believe that Calvinism is way closer to truth than Arminianism ever will be. It's not right.

And to be honest, it's needless divisiveness.

 

[KingZzub]

Oh contraire. You are espousing a God who's hands are tied by the mere thoughts of His own creation.

Psalm 78 tells us that the Israelites limited God through their unbelief. Mark 6 says that because of their unbelief Jesus could do no mighty work.

When the disciples could not cast out a demon in Matthew 17 and asked Jesus why they couldn't do it, Jesus answer was not "God is sovereign, and you never know what God will do". It was "because of your unbelief"

God's grace to us means that He loves to heal, to deliver, to minister to us. But it is by grace and through faith. Faith is the master key to receiving the glory and goodness of God.

No wonder we can only please God with faith: faith is the only thing that allows God to do what He enjoys most - giving good things to His children.

You exhault the feeble mind of man over the majesty and power of the self-existant, and yes sovreign, King of the Universe.

No, God will eventually take command of the universe. However right now, the wisdom and power of God has been entrusted to the will and decision of man. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I have put before you life and death, blessings and curse, choose life.

That's as much deism as the one who goes a step further and denys that God is even aware of what happens in His own creation.

Nonsense. I mean that literally: non-sense. Deism is an absent god. I am telling you God is right here, right now, ready to heal, ready to deliver, ready to bless.

Let one person say even one thing against the heresies that have been produced from the WoF camp and they are denegrated as heresy hunters, but then you would turn and do the very same thing against those of us who believe that Calvinism is way closer to truth than Arminianism ever will be. It's not right.

Maybe I was just predestined to call Calvinism heresy. Maybe it is all the sovereign plan of God. If so, don't get so worked up about it

And to be honest, it's needless divisiveness.

I would like there to be a dividing line between myself and people who see God as responsible for putting people in hell, putting sicknesses on the saints, and causing tragedy and pain.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[JimfromOhio]

Unbelief means we didn't have the Holy Spirit to begin with? Faith is a Gift from God. Without the Holy Spirit, you can't have faith and without the Holy Spirit, you can't be spiritual. If you don't have faith, then you don't have the Holy Spirit. Faith don't come before the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit comes before Faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[KingZzub]

Even someone as Calvinist as Calvin points out that in the verse you quoted "this is a gift of God", the "this" is salvation, not faith.

If we needed a special gift from God to believe the gospel, then the gospel would not be the power of God unto salvation, the special charismatic experience of receiving a gift of faith from God would be.

And seen as all the blessings of God are through faith, what would be the vehicular access of previent faith?

Or does God force that faith upon people? If so, could it really be called faith.

 

[foadle]

Comments on a few posts - I will not include the post itself as that will take far to much room but I will number the post I am refering too.

LRB #58
What you say about mere theism may be correct I don't know. But if that is what theism is all about then I would say theists are not reading their Bible in its entirety.
Psalm 119:68 You (God) are good, and do good; Teach me your statutes.
Therefor the monster God cannot be this God.
Also James 1:13-17 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be decived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
1 John 4:8-10 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we miight live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:18 There is not fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
This by no means is a God who enjoys tormenting his follows to watch them squirm. So if what you describe is theism then theism needs to go back to the Bible.

JFO #62
Your posts here have been very good. Full of insight and scripturally backed. Thank you.
While I realise that we can never fully understand the nature of God 1 John 4:17 says - Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgement because as He is, so we are in this world.
I want to be fulfilling that as best as I am able and obviously this is going to need some encouragement and help from God, but I am sure you will not deny that we also have our part to play in this. We can't sit back and think that everything is going to be hunky dory.
Matthew 5:14,16 You are the light of the world. A city thast is set on a hill cannot be hidden. ... Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
The question that comes to me here is how birght is the light I currently display? Is it brighter than last year? Is it continually getting brighter?
Why do I ask such questions? Because I believe that as I am growing in the Lord this should be a part of the fruits of that. As I come into deeper and deeper relationship with God more and more of his glory should be seen in my life. If his glory is being seen in my life surely more and more people should be asking - what is different about her? In this way God is glorified, more people come to know him and share in his glory and the heart of God is delighted.
How can I say that? Jeremiah 32:27 Behold I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. is Anything to difficult for me?
Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
God wants to bring us all into relationship with him - and I don't think you are arguing that - but what I am saying is that I want to do the best with I can with the resources God has given me. Will I change the world? I don't need to because Jesus has already done that. But if I can help some of the people I come in contact with to see what God has done for them then I am doing as I have been told Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always,even to the end of the age. Amen.
I am not advocating a salvation by works - My salvation is already a certainty. Rather it is in consideration of James 2:14,17-20, 26 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Cna faith save him? ... Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But womeone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? ... For as the body without hte spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Ultimately I am saying - does the way I live my life show the faith I have?
God bless you have already given me a few titbits to mull over and it has been appreciated.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Psalm 78 tells us that the Israelites limited God through their unbelief. Mark 6 says that because of their unbelief Jesus could do no mighty work.

When the disciples could not cast out a demon in Matthew 17 and asked Jesus why they couldn't do it, Jesus answer was not "God is sovereign, and you never know what God will do". It was "because of your unbelief"

God's grace to us means that He loves to heal, to deliver, to minister to us. But it is by grace and through faith. Faith is the master key to receiving the glory and goodness of God.

No wonder we can only please God with faith: faith is the only thing that allows God to do what He enjoys most - giving good things to His children.



No, God will eventually take command of the universe. However right now, the wisdom and power of God has been entrusted to the will and decision of man. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I have put before you life and death, blessings and curse, choose life.



Nonsense. I mean that literally: non-sense. Deism is an absent god. I am telling you God is right here, right now, ready to heal, ready to deliver, ready to bless.



Maybe I was just predestined to call Calvinism heresy. Maybe it is all the sovereign plan of God. If so, don't get so worked up about it



I would like there to be a dividing line between myself and people who see God as responsible for putting people in hell, putting sicknesses on the saints, and causing tragedy and pain.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

So you truly do think you command God. Good luck with that.

 

[KingZzub]

That's actually what Isaiah 45 says, Tree.

Concerning the works of my hands, command ye me.

Read through the book of Acts.

Peter didn't say: "well, if God wants, if it is God's will, then maybe..."

He said "In the name of Jesus, get up and walk"

That is Biblical Christianity.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[JimfromOhio]

All around I see Christians who expected God to give them whatever they ask for. Some even demanded God to give them what they wanted in their own will rather than God's will. Don't get me wrong, God does give blessings and He will after He determines our hearts (our motives). I find them troubling. Why do I find them troubling? Its really simple, once I gave my will to God, I taught me what it means to be blessed by Him.

This will be interesting how Christians discern this type of teaching.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Lets see....

Matthew 14:
7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

Matthew 21:
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

John 14:
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 15:
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 16:
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

1 John 3:
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 5:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

I realize these will be rationalized away by the mere theists... but I still gotto push Jesus! Some may believe!

 

[foadle]

You missed one

James 4:
2 You lust and do not have. You murder adncovet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
3 You ask and do not erceive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

Just because we pray and ask for something does not mean we will get it - God is assessing our hearts on the issue.

 

[JimfromOhio]

People have different views of "receiving".

This is from my journal I thought about my life over the years in my prayer:

God taught me through my trials and learned to understand about my own spiritual reality. I have learned that faith is not supposed to be competitive or works to be earned. Trials taught me that faith must be with love. In fact, love must come before faith. To God, LOVE is more important than faith.

I asked for love.................God gave me trials so I can learn to love Him and others around me.

I asked for strength...........God gave me difficulties which gave me strengths to handle my life.

I asked for wisdom...........God gave me problems to learn to solve with Godly wisdom.

I asked for prosperity.......God gave me a brain and a talent to work so I can be rich.

I asked for courage..........God gave me dangers to learn to overcome my situations.

I asked for healing............God gave me disabilities so I can help others with love.

I asked for guidance........God gave me opportunities to use to direct my paths.

A. W. Tozer Quote

"God, being sovereign (i.e., free to do what He wills to do), does not put Himself at the disposal of His creatures by making promises with no conditions attached. He never gets into a position where He must answer prayer against His will. Certain extremists, to encourage faith, teach that God has made a unilateral covenant from which He cannot escape, and all we need to do is to believe to assure our getting anything we want. Such teaching is in radical contradiction to the letter as well as the spirit of the Holy Scriptures." A. W. Tozer

Another:Questions and Answers on Prayer (A.W. Tozer)

Prayer for Personal Desires

QUESTION: Can one pray to have a personal desire fulfilled and still be fully surrendered to Godís will?

A personal desire, yes, but not a selfish one. There is a difference. A prayer may be personal and still have no element of selfishness in it. The motive is everything. To be free from selfishness a prayer must be
(a) according to the will of God as that will is revealed in the Scriptures;
(b) for the honor of God rather than for the mere fulfillment of carnal ambition;
(c) made in unaffected love for God and men. Of course this rules out covetousness, competition and all evil desire.

A few Biblical examples of personal requests which were honored by the Lord are found in the prayers of Abraham, David, Hannah, the woman of Shunem, Jabez, Hezekiah, Ezekiel, the leper in Matthew 8, Bartimaeus and Paul.

QUESTION: You warn against using God and trying to employ Him to achieve our own ends. Would not asking God for something personal be an attempt to use Him?

A truly spiritual man will be so united to Christ that he will have no desires apart from Him. If we Christians lived in the Spirit as perfectly as we should and could, our common interests would touch not only ourselves but the honor of God and the welfare of mankind as well. In answering a ìpersonalî prayer God would then be helping the individual, blessing mankind and bringing glory to His own name all in one act. We need not hesitate to ask God to help us to achieve ends that lie in God. Our difficulty comes from asking Him to help us to reach ends that lie outside of Him.

 

[churchlady]

All around I see Christians who expected God to give them whatever they ask for. Some even demanded God to give them what they wanted in their own will rather than God's will. Don't get me wrong, God does give blessings and He will after He determines our hearts (our motives). I find them troubling. Why do I find them troubling? Its really simple, once I gave my will to God, I taught me what it means to be blessed by Him.

This will be interesting how Christians discern this type of teaching.

When Jesus endured that brutal scourging on His back, He did it so that you and I and our children could be whole in body and have our lives back from the one who comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

I want Him to have the reward of His suffering, therefore I will proclaim the authority and supremacy of His finished work over my life, even in the face of what I see with my natural eyes.

It sounds humble and so spiritual to say things like...I just want His will.....I have no desires of my own, only His, but it's psuedo-humility, birthed by religious spirits.

True humility believes in what Jesus Christ has done, true humility bows to that work and proclaims it even in the face of no outward evidence - even as Abraham did in Romans 4.

The sad thing is that sometimes even our children suffer because we prefer to feel good about ourselves rather than take an honest look at what Jesus went through for us and stand up and fight the good fight of faith for our and our children's inheritance.

 

[angelnikki]

All around I see Christians who expected God to give them whatever they ask for. Some even demanded God to give them what they wanted in their own will rather than God's will. Don't get me wrong, God does give blessings and He will after He determines our hearts (our motives). I find them troubling. Why do I find them troubling? Its really simple, once I gave my will to God, I taught me what it means to be blessed by Him.

This will be interesting how Christians discern this type of teaching.

Hi,
If that is the case then i have alot of character! I use to curse God because of the life i had, now i just know that i had to know what he was NOT before i would learn what he IS! God works in mysterious ways but i know that if you ask for something whole heartedly in Jesus' name - you shall receive it.

 

[foadle]

I suggest you all read Joyce Meyers "Me and My Big Mouth"
Can we get back to the character of God please

 

[KingZzub]

I think Rocket Boy's Word of God quotes have a higher value than the Word of Tozer.

Just a little personal preference of mine

 

[KingZzub]

I suggest you all read Joyce Meyers "Me and My Big Mouth"
Can we get back to the character of God please

But giving is the the character of God.

For God so loved the world that He gave...

He meets all my need according to His riches.

Ask and you will receive.

He has given us all we need for life and godliness.

Give, and it shall be given to you.

This is the nature and essence of God. You cannot get closer to the heart of God than to talk about His generosity.

 

[foadle]

I agree but when I looked at this it seemed to be more an argument about whether or not a name it and claim it gospel is accurate.