The cause of obedience

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

I posted this to provide a biblical response to a question about our obedience to God. I was surprised at the push back on this verse and its clear meaning.

EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

My take (short) on this verse is - His work of giving, removing and replacing, and putting His Spirit has direct effects that are the direct appointed purpose of his doing. Which are causing us to walk in His statues, and obeying His rules.

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

What is the primary and effective cause of obeying God rules?


In Him,


Bill

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

because they are listening to a false gospel called cheap grace IMHO

 

[Dave G.]

Actually this is part of a true grace message. Grace is shown to be saving throughout scripture. We aren't saved any other way but by the grace of God. The proof that it's happened to you couldn't be any better described than it is in the OP scripture ! We are indeed changed, reborn of the spirit who are His. But sanctification is then a process unto glorification.

No push back from me and I'm a grace believer lol !!

 

[redleghunter]

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

All I can think of is that from one of the theological 'spectrum' some think that such a verse makes people out to be "Calvinist robots." But to have difficulty in what you posted is to have difficulty with regeneration in general and John 3:8 specifically (born again). Meaning some are applying what they think obedience to God is and then also supposing or ignoring the source of the obedience.

 

[Jord Simcha]

I agree with you. The Spirit causes my obedience much more than my own effort does.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Good Day,

I posted this to provide a biblical response to a question about our obedience to God. I was surprised at the push back on this verse and its clear meaning.

EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

My take (short) on this verse is - His work of giving, removing and replacing, and putting His Spirit has direct effects that are the direct appointed purpose of his doing. Which are causing us to walk in His statues, and obeying His rules.

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

What is the primary and effective cause of obeying God rules?


In Him,


Bill

This prophetic word was given to Ezekiel about the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We walk in the Spirit daily, He is in us. He guilds us and sanctifies us. This was reconfirmed by John the Baptist:
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Is this not doctrine to some?

 

[redleghunter]

My take (short) on this verse is - His work of giving, removing and replacing, and putting His Spirit has direct effects that are the direct appointed purpose of his doing. Which are causing us to walk in His statues, and obeying His rules.

Which is confirmed here:

Philippians 1: NASB

3I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, 5in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now. 6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[BBAS 64]

I agree with you. The Spirit causes my obedience much more than my own effort does.

Good Day, Jord

Would it be fair to say the the Spirit effectively enables or assists you in your obedience?


In Him,

Bill

 

[Jord Simcha]

Good Day, Jord

Would it be fair to say the the Spirit effectively enables or assists you in your obedience?


In Him,

Bill

Absolutely.

Good day to you too.

 

[bling]

Good Day,
EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

We also know you can of your own free will quench the Spirit and do as you please.

What is the primary and effective cause of obeying God rules?

Gratitude (Love) and the power provided by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[BBAS 64]

We also know you can of your own free will quench the Spirit and do as you please.

Gratitude (Love) and the power provided by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Good day, Bling

Indeed even has his adopted children we do.

Love is a powerful motivator when borne out of a Heart of flesh. He gives us new desires.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."


In Him,

Bill

 

[com7fy8]

EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

My take (short) on this verse is - His work of giving, removing and replacing, and putting His Spirit has direct effects that are the direct appointed purpose of his doing. Which are causing us to walk in His statues, and obeying His rules.

To me, a new heart includes new character which my human will did not have. God changes me so it is my character to choose what He desires.

Plus, God in me has me doing what He knows He wants. I am not God; so how can I know except . . . until, even . . . He actually has me do what He wants, that He is able to understand better than I can?

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

He works my willing, then, if He works in me to will.

And this is by His grace > the action of His own self and love in us.

Grace is not just distant favor of God smiling at us and overlooking our failure. But grace includes God right inside of us favoring how Jesus lives and loves > changing us so we are like Jesus and love like Jesus. His favor is in action which speaks louder than words.

 

[com7fy8]

I posted this to provide a biblical response to a question about our obedience to God. I was surprised at the push back on this verse and its clear meaning.

EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

This, I would say, says God will give us a new heart and then He in us will cause us to obey Him. I might include that there is the heart God wants us to have while we obey Him.

So, in case this is what people are disagreeing with, I don't know why.

But if you have brought Calvinism into this, this scripture does not name John Calvin; so why get him involved? This is what God says. If you put John's name on what God's word says in easy English, you can be confusing things.

And there is no mention of free will, here. This is about what God does, not what our human free will can do. So, why bring our human capability into it?

 

[FredVB]

The problems with such passages as this one could be that there is disagreement on what there would be obedience to. It mentions commandments. Are the ten commandments going to have this obedience? There is disagreement about things like this.

 

[BBAS 64]

The problems with such passages as this one could be that there is disagreement on what there would be obedience to. It mentions commandments. Are the ten commandments going to have this obedience? There is disagreement about things like this.

Good Day, Fred

That aside for a moment, but it is a great question. Would it be fair to say that God knows what both his rules and his ways are?

walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules...

So would would you agree the cause of our walking and obeying is God?

In Him,

Bill

 

[bling]

Good day, Bling

Indeed even has his adopted children we do.

Love is a powerful motivator when borne out of a Heart of flesh. He gives us new desires.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."


In Him,

Bill

The unbelieving sinner cannot do anything worthy, righteous, honorable out of a Godly type love since he is hell bound and would have no gratitude for what God has done for him (he is heading to hell), but the unbelieving sinner can humbly accept pure undeserving charity for self serving (selfish) reasons.

 

[com7fy8]

Why do some people find this verse and its clear language so hard to accept?

Well, different people could have different reasons why they oppose this scripture.

A person not saved, of course, will deny that God personally works in people's hearts to change us to become and love like Jesus.

And if you use this scripture to support that we do not get our own selves to obey God, then someone who worships one's own free will as having power over God will resist how you are applying this scripture.

But, there are people who trust they have their own control, by their own wills, but they are not knowingly worshiping their own wills, and they will pray for God to change people hearts so they believe. They might pray for God to "soften" someone's heart, though also they do believe a person has one's own free will to make one's own choices. So, these ones might feel you are misusing the scripture, if you use it to say people can't get their own selves to trust in Jesus.

What is the primary and effective cause of obeying God rules?

Theologically, I understand God is the only One who is good, therefore the only One good enough to get us to choose Jesus and then to obey Him. We of our own human goodness and own wills do not have what it takes to choose all which God really means by His word. But He changes us, first, then we choose as He desires.

However, people can experience their own selves making the choices, not realizing how, deeper, God is the One in us having us succeeding.

But if we are trying . . . and bleeding . . . this is because only God in us can have us succeed. Only God can change us how we really need.

We also know you can of your own free will quench the Spirit and do as you please.

My own free will > if my will is free from God so I have my own control . . . in separation from Him . . . I am free from God, and I would say this is a problem. Also, if my character is not naturally submissive to God . . . this is not obedient to God, right?

It is written >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, as much as we are free to choose, we need to choose to always submit to how our Heavenly Father personally . . . in our "hearts" . . . rules us in His own peace. Ruling is all the time, isn't it? If I really am free to get myself to choose, why not choose, all the time, to submit to God in His peace?

And if we are submitting to God in His own peace, having Heaven's own quality of rest > we will experience this. So, if someone claims to obey God in one's own free will, is the person experiencing obeying God in His own peace, then??

Another thing > about being able to "do as you please." >

"God resists the proud" > in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5.

If God is personally resisting you in your pride, no way are you free to do as you jolly well please!! And that pride can get nasty, upset, downcast, irritable, arguing, complaining, unforgiving, hurt, and bitter, as proof that it is being resisted by God so it does not get its own way. The free will of pride is sure to fail, even in getting what it seeks selfishly.

But if our wills have the character of Jesus, we are freely and willingly submissive to how God rules us in His peace > "and you will find rest for your souls," Jesus guarantees us while we obey Him > Matthew 11:28-30.

So our character has so much to do with what we are capable of choosing.

 

[bling]

My own free will > if my will is free from God so I have my own control . . . in separation from Him . . . I am free from God, and I would say this is a problem. Also, if my character is not naturally submissive to God . . . this is not obedient to God, right?

The free will we have is allowed by God (can be taken away at any time) and is very limited, God is just allowing us enough “freedom” to fulfill our earthly objective.

The unbelieving sinner is not doing anything in “submission” to God, he does not like or respect God.

The limited free will we have is the same free will the prodigal son had and that is to mentally make the choice to wimp out, give up and surrender by being willing to humbly accept the Father’s pure undeserved charity for selfish reasons or be macho, pay the piper and take the punishment we fully deserve and starve to death in the pigsty of our life.

It is written >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, as much as we are free to choose, we need to choose to always submit to how our Heavenly Father personally . . . in our "hearts" . . . rules us in His own peace. Ruling is all the time, isn't it? If I really am free to get myself to choose, why not choose, all the time, to submit to God in His peace?

Col. 3:15 is written to individuals who are already a Christian. Again, doing things for selfish reasons like accepting charity for selfish reasons does not require Godly type Love.

Choosing to do something and doing it is not the same thing Ro. 7 For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. This is before Paul had the Holy Spirit, back under the Law when he learned about sin, so God is not keeping anyone from not wanting to sin, but they do have to be wanting and willing to humbly accept God’s help. Are you saying a sinful person cannot desire not to sin?

And if we are submitting to God in His own peace, having Heaven's own quality of rest > we will experience this. So, if someone claims to obey God in one's own free will, is the person experiencing obeying God in His own peace, then??

Another thing > about being able to "do as you please." >

"God resists the proud" > in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5.

I never said a person on their own can do anything honorable or worthy, like keep from sinning, but they can add to their disgraceful behavior begging for undeserved charity.

If God is personally resisting you in your pride, no way are you free to do as you jolly well please!! And that pride can get nasty, upset, downcast, irritable, arguing, complaining, unforgiving, hurt, and bitter, as proof that it is being resisted by God so it does not get its own way. The free will of pride is sure to fail, even in getting what it seeks selfishly.

But if our wills have the character of Jesus, we are freely and willingly submissive to how God rules us in His peace > "and you will find rest for your souls," Jesus guarantees us while we obey Him > Matthew 11:28-30.

So our character has so much to do with what we are capable of choosing.

What gives us pleasure is Loving sacrificially and unconditionally God and others.

 

[com7fy8]

Are you saying a sinful person cannot desire not to sin?

I believe a sinful person on one's own can not desire not to sin, meaning desiring to truly change. The person's carnal mind can not please God > Romans 8:7 < and can not be subject to God, including being subject by desiring in the right way to not sin.

The person, though, can desire not to do certain sin things because of how they are spoiling the person's selfish life. In such cases, the motive of the desire is wrong, though it is to not sin.

For example, a gambler might even ask God to stop the person's gambling, but only because the person wants money for doing other things which could get the person killed, even.

So, I would say, that without God changing a sinful person, the person can not get oneself to truly and rightly desire not to sin. The freedom of the person's will is limited to the person's character, I would say.

 

[renniks]

Yes he puts a new heart in us, but only after we receive and believe on him.