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The "Catholic" Ten Commandments?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by GW, May 27, 2002.

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  1. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    Are you two always trying to discredit or criticize my posts when I come over to this section (One Bread, One Body...)?

    The 4th Commandment can be discussed on THIS thread. Look how much ZooMom has posted about it earlier!

    "This thread is about the numbering and/or omission of the Ten Commandments in Catholic teaching." How much more specific is the omission of the correct day and the commandment numbering change (from 4th to 3rd)?
     
  2. KC Catholic

    KC Catholic Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A

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    Is there a problem with the Jewish people practicing the Sabbath on Saturday - I see no issues with it, that is their practice.

    So what?
     
  3. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    No. Why would you think that?

    *IF* it is relative to whether or not the Sabbath Commandment is included in the Catholic reckoning (which it is), and *IF* people will realize that inflexibly assigning numerals to certain parts of the Commandments as if that is what God intended (which He did not)is not only laughable, but ignorant. The numbers do not change the content of the Commandments, nor do they serve any purpose but convenience.

    I already said that some people may disagree with the way the Church interprets the Commandments, and that's fine. 'Saturday' is not to be found in the Commandments, or anywhere else in the Bible for that matter. The 'number change' comment has already been addressed by me, so I won't respond to it again.

    My posts were meant to show that the Church does not scrimp or 'shave' anything from any of the Commandments. They were not intended as an invitation to debate each interpretation separately. The Sabbath observance is indeed a topic unto itself and would be better served in another thread solely for that purpose.
     
  4. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    Did/Could someone post the Catholic 10 commandments that Moses wrote on stone?
    Julie :pink:
     
  5. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    From the New American (or Catholic) Bible...

    Exodus
    Chapter 20:1 Then God delivered all these commandments:
    2 "I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.
    3
    You shall not have other gods besides me.
    4
    You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;
    5 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation;
    6
    but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
    7
    "You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain. For the LORD will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain.
    8
    "Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
    9
    Six days you may labor and do all your work,
    10
    but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD, your God. No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by the alien who lives with you.
    11
    In six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
    12
    "Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you.
    13
    "You shall not kill.
    14
    "You shall not commit adultery.
    15
    "You shall not steal.
    16
    "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    17
    "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ***, nor anything else that belongs to him."


    And Moses didn't write the Commandments on the stones. God did.

    Exodus 31:18
    When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.
     
  6. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    So did God number them or have them in an order that He wanted them in?
     
  7. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

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    To quote a Messianic Jewish friend of mine, "There are no 10 commandments." God wrote the commandments on stone. No chapter and verse, no numbers. Simply commandments to follow.
     
  8. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    Deuteronomy 10:4
    The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.

    Obviously, they were numbered. God knew the numbering, and so did Moses and the Israelites.

    As a Catholic child, I learned the 10 Commandments from the catechism, not from the Bible. The catechism worded things differently.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    Why do you say 'obviously'? Are the Commandments numbered in Scripture or not? Were they numbered in the original texts, or the surviving copies of the original texts? If you think God gives a hoot about whether you put a '3' or a '4' in front of the Sabbath Commandment, then you are laboring under a misconception. The Commandments were written as text, or prose. Not in a list, neatly margined and numbered on two tombstone shaped tablets ala Charlton Heston. Get real.

    Not really. The Catechism merely explains Catholic thought and teaching as regards Divine Revelation. The Scripture is there, as are the Councils, theologians, Doctors, and Saints that have helped the Church grow in her understanding of same. I learned that as a Catholic adult.
     
  10. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    ZooMom, please present the evidence that the Jews historically have the sabbath commandment as the Third, please.
     
  11. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    2002Christian, please present the evidence that it makes a blooming difference what number is in front of which Commandment. And do it from Scripture, since your cute little image in your last post makes such a point of sneering at tradition.
     
  12. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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  13. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    Your point?

    Don't tell me you are appealing to tradition, of all things. 'Cause after that image you posted, you know what that makes you, right?
     
  14. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

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    The point is that you are posting in the One Bread, One Body forum, which is for Catholics. You can post here if you are not Catholic, but you cannot start the tradition vs. scripture debate here, you'll have to do that in Interfaith Discussion (or whatever it's called now).

    -Chris
     
  15. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    Are you telling the world that the Jews didn't know how to number the 10 Commandments? And that they had to wait until the Catholic Church came on the scene thousands of years later to tell them the 4th Commandment really was the 3rd and that the 2nd Commandment really was not a Commandment at all? That the 10th Commandment really was two commandments (9 & 10)? That the sabbath of the LORD is to be observed 24 hours later?
     
  16. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    I'm telling you that the Church doesn't care how you number the Commandments as long as you have them all! I'm telling you that you don't have to agree with the Church's interpretation of the Commandments *or* the way she numbers them, and that *still* doesn't make the Church wrong!

    Do this for me. Post the first Commandment as you know it. Just the first one, in it's entirety, with no embellishments. Please.
     
  17. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    As far as the catechism (part of tradition) is concerned, I posted the image as it related to MY experience AS A CATHOLIC. I was taught from the CATECHISM, not from the Bible.
     
  18. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

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    The Catechism isn't 'part of tradition', it's an explanation of the Church's beliefs which derive from divine Revelation, both Scripture and Tradition. So your understanding of the Catechism is flawed. And if you were taught from the Catechism, then you were taught the Catholic understanding of the Scriptures, as the Catechism is replete with Scriptural notes and references for those who wish to read the full context of the Scriptures that are being explained, if they are not already provided. And if you want to keep clinging to a child's understanding of Doctrine in order to 'prove' the Church wrong, then you are in for some serious bumps in the road.
     
  19. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

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    I really don't think it matters what number goes in where.
    What raised my eyebrows as a kid and a young adult is that the 10 commandments listed in my NAB bible....you know on a seprate insert...graven images are not mentioned.
    Thou shall have no other gods before me is pretty important.
    I hate to see you guys get all nasty about this...this includes 2002 christian.
    I would like to know the whole point of the debate on the commandments?!?!
    :scratch:
    GEL
     
  20. Kotton

    Kotton Senior Member

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    Catholic
    In children's catechisms (or a page in your bible) the commandments are abreviated for easier comprehension.
    Yes, and we were taught that the idols were other gods to the pagans. Many such issues are explained indepth as we gain in age and knowledge. It's just simpler for young children to have a shorter version.

    Any debate was WHY the numbering was different.

    Kotton :)
     
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