The Catholic Chruch is not the Anti-Christ

[mikeangel]

I posted on another thread this response. And I want to start a thread to declare this. I read so many times that people say that the Pope is False Prophet, Anti-christ etc. etc. And all the practices of the church is pagan. I get tired of this because everybody else has just as much falseness and separation from God too. No one can Judge, yet they do. IMHO id be careful about handing out judgments and labels against anyone, Catholic or not. I do not attend there anymore and do not agree with them on several things, but i will leave Judgement to God. This post states why they are not the Anti-Christ. Peace

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"The Roman church is pagan based, and disagrees with the Bible in many instances...the infallibility of the popes is a fairy tale based on their own propaganda.....2nd thess 2 3&4 and Revelation 17 beast and the church represent the Roman church and the Vatican...the pope is now meeting and accepting all religious beliefs, to create a one world religion, which be dictatorial and antichrist..and based on scriptures the Roman church and leaders are the antichrist and false prophet declared in the Bible"- Someones Post


I disagree. He is trying to reach out to other faiths to love them, but he has not denied Christ as God son. The Rcc puts too much emphasis on sacraments being solely administered through them, but other faiths wrongly assert their superority also.
What about the Presbyterians and Baptist being allowed to be masons, who have a "worshipful master" that stands behind an altar they knell to, with three "holy books" on it, while they swear oaths? God is referred to as "the great architect of the universe" and represents every "deity" there is, and they exclude Christ as King of all and Lord. Read the Shriner's ritual, where Mohammed is put forth as good , all the while running hospitals for handicapped children. And that has been going on long before Pope Francis. And at least so far, you cannot be a mason and be Catholic.

The Antichrist that will be exposed, is inside everyone. Mankind as a whole, is the Antichrist. The rebellious spirit that has been in mankind, since Adam disobeyed God in Eden, is the Antichrist. 666 is mans number. Only Jesus was pure, and his sacrifice forgives our transgression. And puts the spirit of God in us. In Thessalonians, when the antichrist is exposed, is when Gods people are chosen, marked, taken, and laying on the ground with their spirits flown away to be with God in the air. Then mankind will once again know who God's people really are, and who are not, and he will become King over the whole earth. And then he will destroy it and remake it. I wish it was yesterday. Peace

 

[mea kulpa]

I agree the catholic church is not the antichrist but early church fathers believed that it is possible the antichrist would rise within the church


"St. Augustine therefore li. 20 de civit. c. 19 and St. Jerome q. 11 ad Algasiam. do think, that this sitting of Antichrist in the temple, doth signify his sitting in the Church of Christ, rather than in Solomon's temple. Not as though he should be a chief member of the Church of Christ, or a special part of his body mystical, and be Antichrist and yet withal continuing within the Church of Christ, as the Heretics feign, to make the Pope Antichrist (whereby they plainly confess and agnise [recognize] that the Pope is a member of the Church, & in ipso sinu Ecclesia, and in the very bosom of the Church, say they for that is ridiculous, that all Heretics whom St. John calleth Antichrists as his precursors, should go out of the Church, and the great Antichrist himself should be of the Church, and in the Church, and continue in the same. And yet to them that make the whole Church in revolt from God, this is no absurdity. But the truth is, that this Antichristian revolt here spoken of, is from the Catholic Church: and Antichrist, if he ever were of or in the Church, shall be an Apostate and a renegade out of the Church, and he shall usurp upon it by tyranny, and by challenging worship, religion, and government thereof, so that himself shall be adored in all the Churches of the world which he list to leave standing for his honor. And this is to sit in the temple or *against the Temple of God, as some interpret. If any Pope did ever this, or shall do, then let the Adversaries call him Antichrist."

- Original Douay-Rheims Bible Commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2

Catholic End Time Prophecies and Commentaries

 

[Emli]

I don't believe that Pope Francis is the Anti-Christ, but he isn't a true Christian either. I heard him say two things that proves this. 1. that Jesus dying on the cross was His biggest failure (no one who loves Jesus and understand the Gospel could say this) and 2. that someone is a Christian only because they belong to the Church (and he probably only meant the RCC) and no one can experience a conversion on their own. This is not the definition of the spirit of the anti-christ (denying the Father and Son), but it is anti-gospel and against everything that Jesus is.

I used to be a wiccan, practicing paganism of every kind, switching between Mother Earth worship and worshipping different pantheons, and when I finally turned to Christ and got saved (and had a personal conversion experience with Him), I put that all behind me. As I researched different denominations, and got to Catholicism, I saw all kinds of warning signs. It really is just paganism dressed up as Christianity, and it is more of a political system to control people (or at least it used to be), rather than Christ freeing you personally. And the doctrines are clearly unbiblical. You barely have to understand the Bible to see that they are very, very wrong. I could go into detail, but it would be nothing new.

I've been to the Vatican, and I felt that my faith in Jesus was deeply insulted. There are pictures of the Pope everywhere instead of Jesus and couldn't barely find a cross or anything else without a it having a stamp of either the Pope or Mary on it. There is so much idolatry.

I'm sorry, but the RCC is not true Christianity by any means. There are problems with the true Church today as well, and there are so many false apostles everywhere, but at least most Protestant Churches don't commit idolatry like this. The RCC may or may not be the beast, but if it isn't, it definitely is Babylon.

 

[Albion]

I posted on another thread this response. And I want to start a thread to declare this. I read so many times that people say that the Pope is False Prophet, Anti-christ etc. etc. And all the practices of the church is pagan. I get tired of this because everybody else has just as much falseness and separation from God too.

I agree with you about the talk of pagan roots and the anti-Christ, but OTOH, the Catholic Church is well-known for claiming to be the only true church and to be endowed with infallibility.

I think that if it instead were similar to most other Christian churches in believing that Christ founded a faith from which many or most of the denominations we have today have descended and that we know that we can make mistakes but that it's the word of God that remains infallible, those charges made against the Catholic Church would be a lot less common.

 

[mikeangel]

I agree with you about the talk of pagan roots and the anti-Christ, but OTOH, the Catholic Church is well-known for claiming to be the only true church and to be endowed with infallibility.

I think that if it instead were similar to most other Christian churches in believing that Christ founded a faith from which many or most of the denominations we have today have descended and that we know that we can make mistakes but that it's the word of God that remains infallible, those charges made against the Catholic Church would be a lot less common.

I totally agree. It has set it self to be the first. And it uses Peters confession of Jesus as the messiah and head of the church, and literally building the church on top of him, to insert itself as first and paramount. It also sees its priest as being solely able to transubstantiate bread into Christ flesh and true communion. But, Jesus still forgives mistakes and errors, by them and all Christians, and they are in grace imho. But by claiming to be the first, they will be judged harder than those just following the word of Gad as best that they can and serving all the rest. Christ said it. If you want to be first, you must put yourself last, and love all and forgive all. Those who claim to be superior to them by practice, but do not love more, will put themselves in the last also. Peace

 

[mikeangel]

I'm sorry, but the RCC is not true Christianity by any means. There are problems with the true Church today as well, and there are so many false apostles everywhere, but at least most Protestant Churches don't commit idolatry like this. The RCC may or may not be the beast, but if it isn't, it definitely is Babylon.

And specificly-"but at least most Protestant Churches don't commit idolatry like this."

Oh yes they do. I have already went into the acceptance of masonry and Idolatry by mainstream Protestants. Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterians etc..... how masonry puts God into an acronym, GAOTU, and claim him as every "diety" there is, and make oaths to masonry kneeling in front of their "Worshipful Master" (a mason man head of the lodge, not God) , with an "Altar" in front of them. They deny Jesus' exclusive saving power by denying his sole Kingship and authority.

What about the Protestant folks that tell their kids that Santa visits them, and even tricks them with fake eaten cookies and an empty milk glass? And tell them that he sees them all the time and they need to be good to get more presents? Who blasphemes more???

All are just as guilty and will hang their head in shame if they rely on their own holiness.

Peace

 

[mikeangel]

And the USA is Babylon as well. They both are. And they both hold the keys to earth power. But God is coming to rule them both.

 

[mikeangel]

I don't believe that Pope Francis is the Anti-Christ, but he isn't a true Christian either. I heard him say two things that proves this. 1. that Jesus dying on the cross was His biggest failure (no one who loves Jesus and understand the Gospel could say this) and 2. that someone is a Christian only because they belong to the Church (and he probably only meant the RCC) and no one can experience a conversion on their own. This is not the definition of the spirit of the anti-christ (denying the Father and Son), but it is anti-gospel and against everything that Jesus is.

I used to be a wiccan, practicing paganism of every kind, switching between Mother Earth worship and worshipping different pantheons, and when I finally turned to Christ and got saved (and had a personal conversion experience with Him), I put that all behind me. As I researched different denominations, and got to Catholicism, I saw all kinds of warning signs. It really is just paganism dressed up as Christianity, and it is more of a political system to control people (or at least it used to be), rather than Christ freeing you personally. And the doctrines are clearly unbiblical. You barely have to understand the Bible to see that they are very, very wrong. I could go into detail, but it would be nothing new.

I've been to the Vatican, and I felt that my faith in Jesus was deeply insulted. There are pictures of the Pope everywhere instead of Jesus and couldn't barely find a cross or anything else without a it having a stamp of either the Pope or Mary on it. There is so much idolatry.

I'm sorry, but the RCC is not true Christianity by any means. There are problems with the true Church today as well, and there are so many false apostles everywhere, but at least most Protestant Churches don't commit idolatry like this. The RCC may or may not be the beast, but if it isn't, it definitely is Babylon.

And specifically-"1. that Jesus dying on the cross was His biggest failure (no one who loves Jesus and understand the Gospel could say this).

See, this is how some do do gets going. This is what he actually said in whole context-

"
We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.

The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross."

He did not say Jesus was a failure. He said humanly speaking. He said how unimportant the worlds opinion was and how Gods will was done. People twist things to fit what they believe.

I'm not practicing in the RCC anymore and do not agree with what I cannot reconcile in the Bible either, but I think that by the masses twisting his words and every move, that is idolatry too. He is a man like all of us. And he is human and makes mistakes. But if he honestly loves from his heart and is doing the best he can with what he has. like he said once-"who am I to Judge".. Peace

 

[Emli]

And specificly-"but at least most Protestant Churches don't commit idolatry like this."

Oh yes they do. I have already went into the acceptance of masonry and Idolatry by mainstream Protestants. Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterians etc..... how masonry puts God into an acronym, GAOTU, and claim him as every "diety" there is, and make oaths to masonry kneeling in front of their "Worshipful Master" (a mason man head of the lodge, not God) , with an "Altar" in front of them. They deny Jesus' exclusive saving power by denying his sole Kingship and authority.

What about the Protestant folks that tell their kids that Santa visits them, and even tricks them with fake eaten cookies and an empty milk glass? And tell them that he sees them all the time and they need to be good to get more presents? Who blasphemes more???

All are just as guilty and will hang their head in shame if they rely on their own holiness.

Peace

I agree with everything you just said. Completely. But there is a huge difference. The problems within the Protestant church are within smaller denominations, cults and factions, not the entire church. And of course there are many Christians who practice or live in sin, but it's not the norm. There is no doctrine to tell people to believe in Santa or be a mason, it's just something that some worldly Christians do. They are the exception. I agree that it's wrong, but still, they don't worship Santa as a god and pray to him. The RCC is built upon 100% false, non-biblical doctrines. I believe that there may be saved Catholics, who doesn't worship/pray to Mary and saints, and follow the true Bible instead of the Catholic Bible, without all of the added traditions and false doctrines, but they are the exception.

In the end, God will judge us personally, and no idolater will enter heaven. Revelation 21:8. It's up to every single believer whether we choose to commit idolatry or to follow Jesus and His Word.

 

[Emli]

And specifically-"1. that Jesus dying on the cross was His biggest failure (no one who loves Jesus and understand the Gospel could say this).

See, this is how some do do gets going. This is what he actually said in whole context-

"
We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.

The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus . . . and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, in the failure of the cross."

He did not say Jesus was a failure. He said humanly speaking. He said how unimportant the worlds opinion was and how Gods will was done. People twist things to fit what they believe.

I'm not practicing in the RCC anymore and do not agree with what I cannot reconcile in the Bible either, but I think that by the masses twisting his words and every move, that is idolatry too. He is a man like all of us. And he is human and makes mistakes. But if he honestly loves from his heart and is doing the best he can with what he has. like he said once-"who am I to Judge".. Peace

I agree with your last statement. I actually love the Pope personally. He has a form of godliness. Unfortunately, false prophets tend to have that quality... He is just a man (but not according to himself and the RCC), like you said, probably doing his best according to his own faith. But his faith is not true saving faith. If Catholics were really saved, don't you think that God would have rooted out all of the false doctrines?

I understand your viewpoint, and when I read the whole speech, I must admit that it was much more profound than I previously understood it. It still set something off in me when I heard the speech. Something about what the way he talked bugged me, but I don't really know why.

I've tried to be okay with the RCC, but I cannot get onboard with them. There are just so many faults and warning signals. The same with Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. It bothers me, a lot, because I don't want all of these people going to hell. Of course, I don't know what God will do. But if I believe they are saved despite of not believing the true Gospel, I'm going against the Bible. We all need to stick to God's Word.

 

[mea kulpa]

Jesus established a church on earth. If christ was the messiah that church must still exist and will do even to the end of time. There is only 1 christian church that can trace its establishment back to jesus and its not the protestant fellowships whos oldest established community can be traced back just over 500 years.

 

[Emli]

Jesus established a church on earth. If christ was the messiah that church must still exist and will do even to the end of time. There is only 1 christian church that can trace its establishment back to jesus and its not the protestant fellowships whos oldest established community can be traced back just over 500 years.

That is the worst argument of them all. It is based on false logic, and on nothing Biblical. The Catholic Church is first of all not based on what the apostles taught, so it does not come from the original, true Church. Secondly, it wasn't formed until much later. Thirdly, the Church is biblically not an organization, but Christ's body on the Earth, made up of His children, the true believers. No denomination is the true Church. Christ's followers are.

And most of all, if it were the true Church, it would honor Christ and follow His Word, and it doesn't. It would be pure and free from lies and false doctrines. It isn't. It's based on a truly non-biblical foundation, and the doctrines and traditions of the RCC coincides perfectly with Christ's and the apostles' teachings about the Pharisees, the false prophets and mystery Babylon.

How could it possibly be the true Church?

I'm sorry if I'm being critical, but I really don't understand how anyone could believe that Catholicism is true Christianity.

 

[FireDragon76]

I agree with you about the talk of pagan roots and the anti-Christ, but OTOH, the Catholic Church is well-known for claiming to be the only true church and to be endowed with infallibility..

Understood within its official context, that doesn't bother me so much. It's only the traditionalists that make a big deal about those things now days. Anglicans and Episcopalians, from a Lutheran point of view, often present the same issues, particularly in the insistence on episcopacy.

 

[mea kulpa]

That is the worst argument of them all. It is based on false logic, and on nothing Biblical. The Catholic Church is first of all not based on what the apostles taught, so it does not come from the original, true Church. Secondly, it wasn't formed until much later. Thirdly, the Church is biblically not an organization, but Christ's body on the Earth, made up of His children, the true believers. No denomination is the true Church. Christ's followers are.

And most of all, if it were the true Church, it would honor Christ and follow His Word, and it doesn't. It would be pure and free from lies and false doctrines. It isn't. It's based on a truly non-biblical foundation, and the doctrines and traditions of the RCC coincides perfectly with Christ's and the apostles' teachings about the Pharisees, the false prophets and mystery Babylon.

How could it possibly be the true Church?

I'm sorry if I'm being critical, but I really don't understand how anyone could believe that Catholicism is true Christianity.

I have no idea who is lying to you but your facts are all wrong


You know all those christians who died in the coloseum they wernt protestant... those were Catholics.

 

[Emli]

I have no idea who is lying to you but your facts are all wrong


You know all those christians who died in the coloseum they wernt protestant... those were Catholics.

My facts are from the Bible. You shouldn't accuse God of lying.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Anti-Christ

Revelation 13:18

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast (anti-christ), for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (666)


2 Thessalonians 2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, (Rock of the Dome in Jerusalem?) displaying himself as being God.

Here are my thoughts. Scripture (NIV) and some comments mine.

2 Thessalonians 2 (NIV)....Paul on: "The Man of Lawlessness" = Anti-Christ?
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 do not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter
—asserting that "the day of the Lord" has already come. (The Second Coming?)
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that "day" will not come
until the rebellion occurs and "the man of lawlessness" is revealed,
the man doomed to destruction.
4 He (Anti-Christ?) will oppose and will exalt himself over everything
that is called God or is worshiped,
so that he (Anti-Christ?) sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

SEE: Matthew 24...especially verse 24

SEE: Revelation 13:5-18

Revelations 3:10; Revelations 19: 11-16;

SEE: THE RAPTURE: 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18; 1 Thessalonians 1:10

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
6 And now you know "what (Who?) is holding him (Anti-Christ?) back",
so that he (Anti-Christ?) may be revealed at the proper time.
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work;
but the one who now holds it back (God the Holy Spirit?) will continue to do so until he (Anti-Christ?) is taken out of the way.
8 And then "the lawless one" (Anti-Christ?) will be revealed,
whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth
and destroy by the splendor of his (Jesus' Second?) coming.
9 The coming of "the lawless one"(Anti-Christ?) will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. = (unsaved)
11 For this reason God (God the Holy Spirit?) sends them (unsaved) a powerful delusion so that they (unsaved) will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth
but have delighted in wickedness. (unsaved)

POSSIBLE TIMELINE???

NOW= Pre-Tribulation...birth pains...Matthew 24

FUTURE = Birth and Rise of Anti-Christ

Anti-Christ appears in Jerusalem ....after temple is rebuilt

3.5 years of Tribulation begins... at time unknown...Israel's final 7 years fulfilled

Rapture and Second Coming...God the Holy Spirit and spirits of believers "snatched"...RETURN...RESURRECTION...RAPTURE...REUNION

3.5 years of GREAT Tribulation...144,000 Jewish Billy Graham's tell of the Messaiah's Coming

Armegeddon?

1000 years Rule and Reign...Satan + his "angels" bound

Judgment of Believers' Works?

Great White Throne Judgment...unbelievers cast with Satan and their works judged

Destruction of Planet Earth by fire

New Heavens + New Earth for eternity

 

[Emli]

Anti-Christ

Revelation 13:18

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast (anti-christ), for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (666)


2 Thessalonians 2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, (Rock of the Dome in Jerusalem?) displaying himself as being God.

Here are my thoughts. Scripture (NIV) and some comments mine.

2 Thessalonians 2 (NIV)....Paul on: "The Man of Lawlessness" = Anti-Christ?
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 do not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter
—asserting that "the day of the Lord" has already come. (The Second Coming?)
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that "day" will not come
until the rebellion occurs and "the man of lawlessness" is revealed,
the man doomed to destruction.
4 He (Anti-Christ?) will oppose and will exalt himself over everything
that is called God or is worshiped,
so that he (Anti-Christ?) sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

SEE: Matthew 24...especially verse 24

SEE: Revelation 13:5-18

Revelations 3:10; Revelations 19: 11-16;

SEE: THE RAPTURE: 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18; 1 Thessalonians 1:10

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
6 And now you know "what (Who?) is holding him (Anti-Christ?) back",
so that he (Anti-Christ?) may be revealed at the proper time.
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work;
but the one who now holds it back (God the Holy Spirit?) will continue to do so until he (Anti-Christ?) is taken out of the way.
8 And then "the lawless one" (Anti-Christ?) will be revealed,
whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth
and destroy by the splendor of his (Jesus' Second?) coming.
9 The coming of "the lawless one"(Anti-Christ?) will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. = (unsaved)
11 For this reason God (God the Holy Spirit?) sends them (unsaved) a powerful delusion so that they (unsaved) will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth
but have delighted in wickedness. (unsaved)

POSSIBLE TIMELINE???

NOW= Pre-Tribulation...birth pains...Matthew 24

FUTURE = Birth and Rise of Anti-Christ

Anti-Christ appears in Jerusalem ....after temple is rebuilt

3.5 years of Tribulation begins... at time unknown...Israel's final 7 years fulfilled

Rapture and Second Coming...God the Holy Spirit and spirits of believers "snatched"...RETURN...RESURRECTION...RAPTURE...REUNION

3.5 years of GREAT Tribulation...144,000 Jewish Billy Graham's tell of the Messaiah's Coming

Armegeddon?

1000 years Rule and Reign...Satan + his "angels" bound

Judgment of Believers' Works?

Great White Throne Judgment...unbelievers cast with Satan and their works judged

Destruction of Planet Earth by fire

New Heavens + New Earth for eternity

This is probably not the right thread for your comment, since it's a question about the RCC, but yeah, that's about it. Except the snatching away should happen right before the Battle of Armageddon. Revelation 16:15 (go with Scripture on this, not your feelings)

And remember to keep your focus on Christ, not the Anti-Christ.

 

[mikeangel]

"The history of the Catholic Church begins with the teachings of Jesus Christ (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30), who lived in Galilee (later conquered by the Roman Empire).[1] The Catholic Church teaches that it is the continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus Christ,[2] that its bishops are the successors to Jesus's apostles, and the Bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope, is the sole successor to Saint Peter[3] who was appointed by Jesus in the New Testament as head of the church and ministered in Rome.[4][5] By the end of the 2nd century, bishops began congregating in regional synods to resolve doctrinal and policy issues.[6] By the 3rd century, the bishop of Rome began to act as a court of appeals for problems that other bishops could not resolve.[7]

Christianity spread throughout the early Roman Empire, despite persecutions due to conflicts with the pagan state religion. In 313, the struggles of the Early Church were lessened by the legalisation of Christianity by the Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius I, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the decree of the Emperor, which would persist until the fall of the Western Empire, and later, with the Eastern Roman Empire, until the Fall of Constantinople. During this time,the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils) there were considered five primary sees (jurisdictions within the Catholic Church) according to Eusebius: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, known as the Pentarchy.

The whole period of the next five centuries was dominated by the struggle between Christianity and Islam throughout the Mediterranean Basin. The battles of Poitiers, and Toulouse preserved the Catholic west, even though Rome itself was ravaged in 850, and Constantinople besieged. In the 11th century, already strained relations between the primarily Greek church in the East, and the Latin church in the West, developed into the East-West Schism, partially due to conflicts over Papal Authority. The fourth crusade, and the sacking of Constantinople by renegade crusaders proved the final breach. In the 16th century, in response to the Protestant Reformation, the Church engaged in a process of substantial reform and renewal known as the Counter-Reformation.[8] In subsequent centuries, Catholicism spread widely across the world despite experiencing a reduction in its hold on European populations due to the growth of Protestantism and also because of religious scepticism during and after the Enlightenment. The Second Vatican Council in the 1960s introduced the most significant changes to Catholic practices since the Council of Trent three centuries before." -Wikkipedia

 

[Ron Gurley]

Armageddon....Revelation 16: after the 6th Seal
13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon (satan/devil) and out of the mouth of the beast (anti-christ) and out of the mouth of the false prophet, (anti-spirit) three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the "great day of God", the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I (Jesus) am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they (unholy trinity) gathered them (the kings of the whole world) together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

The RCC is NOT the anti-Christ...a MAN named 666 will be!

 

[mikeangel]

I , in no way, do not view the RCC as infallible. But what Mea Culpa said about it being first is true. The critics of the church may spin a few things, like in your saying the pope said Jesus was a failure, but it does go back to Rome and the first few Centurys. No other church does. For a while,, the whole Christian Church and known civilized world was Catholic. This is historical fact.
Where you and I agree Emili, is that it being the first, will be the last, just like Jesus said things work. They have set themselves up like the pharasees, that pomp and tradition have over the centurys overtaken the main things that God wants, namely Justice, mercy and charity.
Where you and I do not agree, is weather or not they are saved. The church has many flaws, more than I can shake a Rosery at, but, it is based on Christ. The mistakes come after that, and since they are human, bound to happen.
The Mormons and JWs, are screwy too imho, but Like the RCC, I will leave Salvation and Grace where it is and will always be, In the mighty hands of God himself.

You say that how can they be saved because the word of God would not be true if any were. What did God mean in scripture when he said there are none rightious, not even one..........

I serve all Christians, and am happy to associate with them all. I do not participate in what I do not agree with. I am not required to call the pope Holy Father. I am not required to say roserys. Or have anything to do with Mary. The RCC teaches salvation due to Christ Sacrifice. Where I have a difference with them, is the "representation" of Calvary everyt Sunday. Still, I will leave Judgement with God.

IMHO, you will fare better at judgements by not judgeing others as not being saved. No one is perfect. No church is perfect. And as it is written, "As you measure out, so it will be measured back to you"