The Cambrian problem

[-57]

Read the entire article.

They developed cecal valves, special muscles that helped their digestion. An organ that wasn't there before.

There is a phenomena called "Phenotypic Plasticity" which is the ability of an organism to change its phenotype in response to changes in the environment. No mutations required. No "new" information has been added. Instead, what has happened is a change in how the genes are expressed.

 

[lasthero]

There is a phenomena called "Phenotypic Plasticity" which is the ability of an organism to change its phenotype in response to changes in the environment. No mutations required. No "new" information has been added. Instead, what has happened is a change in how the genes are expressed.

Please show evidence to support your claim that the appearance of cecal valves in Italian wall lizards was the result of phenotype plasticity.

 

[pat34lee]

You never took a college course in astrophysics, or even read a competent book.

Prove me wrong. With facts, not theories.

 

[-57]

Please show evidence to support your claim that the appearance of cecal valves in Italian wall lizards was the result of phenotype plasticity.

As soon as you show me they were a result of random mutations.

...secondly, some liizards already have cecal valves. In fact I even read where the ‘new’ muscular valve they found between the small and large intestine is simply an enlargement of muscles already present in the gut wall at this juncture.

 

[lasthero]

As soon as you show me they were a result of random mutations.

Phenotype plasticity isn't heritable, so that's a big tip off. Nonetheless, you were the first to make a claim.

...secondly, some liizards already have cecal valves. In fact I even read where the ‘new’ muscular valve they found between the small and large intestine is simply an enlargement of muscles already present in the gut wall at this juncture.

Where did you read this?

 

[pat34lee]

The H-R diagrams of star clusters change with the age of the cluster. The main-sequence turn-off moves to lower luminosity as less massive stars exhaust hydrogen in their cores, and the red giant branch (of hydrogen shell burning stars) develops. How do you explain these changes except as a result of stellar evolution?

Yes, I have thought about it, many times; it is a constant preoccupation of mine. If you look at the SIMBAD astronomical database - http://www.simbad.u-strasbg.fr./simbad/ - you will find thousands of stellar parallax measurements. Also, there are distance measurements based on the use of 'standard candles', such as Cepheid variable stars.
By the way, your comparison is not entirely accurate; the parallax of the nearest star (alpha Centauri) corresponds to triangulating a point one mile away from two points ¼" apart. Your comparison is more appropriate to the distance of the Pleiades star cluster (136 parsecs).

First, reread what you wrote and tell me how much is
theory and how much is factual (proven), beginning with
the life cycle of stars.

Doing the math, and accepting the given value of about
4.24 light years to Alpha Centauri, that gives angles of
about .25 degrees. How accurate do you think those
equations would be? What would be the true margin
of error?

 

[-57]

Phenotype plasticity isn't heritable, so that's a big tip off. Nonetheless, you were the first to make a claim.



Where did you read this?

I read it here.
Now you claim it was due to random beneficial mutations.....will you present your scientific proof or will you retract?

 

[pat34lee]

There are no such constraints in those equations.

Gas Constant Definition:
The Gas Constant is the constant in the equation for the Ideal Gas Law:
PV = nRT

where P is pressure, V is volume, n is number of moles, and T is temperature.

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

I read it here.
Now you claim it was due to random beneficial mutations.....will you present your scientific proof or will you retract?

I was looking into the island lizards literature. I did read a quite interesting book chapter in a PDF;
"FIELD EXPERIMENTS, INTRODUCTIONS, AND EXPERIMENTAL EVOLUTION: A Review and Practical Guide"
Duncan J. Irschick and David Reznick

 

[sfs]

Gas Constant Definition:
The Gas Constant is the constant in the equation for the Ideal Gas Law:
PV = nRT

where P is pressure, V is volume, n is number of moles, and T is temperature.

That's nice. There are still no physical constraints implied in his equations. Really, your responses seem to be quite random -- you haven't given even a hint of physical explanation for why gravitational collapse is impossible, and you don't seem to understand the physics involved. What exactly is the point of this discussion?

 

[sfs]

I'm getting so tired of the comic book version of evolution.

And I'm getting tired you offering nothing but empty jeering instead of substantive discussion. You're the one proposing to junk huge swaths of modern biology, and your entire reason for doing so seems to be personal incredulity.

Claiming this can happen or that can happen without providing a suitable means is not an answer.

Pointing out a plausible route by which something could have happened certainly is an answer to the simple assertion, "This couldn't have happened." If you want to be taken seriously, offer some substance: what prevents the dolphin echo-location system from accreting by small mutations? What step is impossible in there? Why do so many parts of that system closely resemble existing structures in other mammals? For that matter, why do so many features of dolphin anatomy resemble similar features in land mammals?

 

[-57]

And I'm getting tired you offering nothing but empty jeering instead of substantive discussion. You're the one proposing to junk huge swaths of modern biology, and your entire reason for doing so seems to be personal incredulity.

Pointing out a plausible route by which something could have happened certainly is an answer to the simple assertion, "This couldn't have happened." If you want to be taken seriously, offer some substance: what prevents the dolphin echo-location system from accreting by small mutations? What step is impossible in there? Why do so many parts of that system closely resemble existing structures in other mammals? For that matter, why do so many features of dolphin anatomy resemble similar features in land mammals?

When you can show me how mutations add up, get back to me. I'm not going to accept that so few random so-called beneficial mutations have the ability to occur in just the right place at just the right time in such a large field of DNA.
...and then do it again and again. Sorry Evo-ism fails.

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

I read it here.
Now you claim it was due to random beneficial mutations.....will you present your scientific proof or will you retract?

The actual article in the scientific literature was;

2008 "Rapid large-scale evolutionary divergence in morphology and performance associated with exploitation of a different dietary resource" Anthony Herrel, et al, PNAS (USA) vol. 105 no. 12:4792–4795, doi: 10.1073/pnas.0711998105

It is freely available. I at least skimmed 4 articles on Podarcis sicula speciation (out of ~100) and I have the general sense that this was a very interesting example of "founder effect" and adaptive phenotypes, but stopped short of species divergence. There were however no definitive studies that precluded an incipient divergence. In the following 7 years the proposed genetic studies have not been published. I suspect they were not funded.

 

[lasthero]

I read it here.
Now you claim it was due to random beneficial mutations.

There's no evidence it's plasticity, especially since that isn't heritable. What other mechanism would it be?

...will you present your scientific proof or will you retract?

What would you consider as scientific proof?

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

There's no evidence it's plasticity, especially since that isn't heritable. What other mechanism would it be?


What would you consider as scientific proof?

Anyone who (like "57" ) offered Answers in Genesis as an authoritative source will never consider any science at all. The specific study was interesting- a seriously large number of phenotypic changes appeared in just ~30 generations. They would in the absence of genetic studies lead to a reasonable assignment of a new "sub-species." What I would like to see are some re-introductions of the source. Is there a reproductive isolation?

 

[sfs]

When you can show me how mutations add up, get back to me. I'm not going to accept that so few random so-called beneficial mutations have the ability to occur in just the right place at just the right time in such a large field of DNA.
...and then do it again and again. Sorry Evo-ism fails.

Every comparison of every pair of subpopulations, subspecies and divergent species shows that mutations add up, as does the study of ancient DNA from our own ancestors. As far as I can tell, the only way to believe that mutations don't add up is to know nothing about comparative genomics at all, or to reject it wholesale.

But I have to ask -- where did you ever get the idea that I care whether you accept evolution or not? It's only when you level false accusations against scientists and make false statements about genuine science that I care about your views at all.

As I said, if you want to be taken seriously, offer an alternative that explains the data. I notice you didn't offer one. Shall I conclude that you don't have one?

 

[Gracchus]

Unfortunately, the single life form to humanity Darwinist 'creationist' view is nothing more than a faith-based view.

Just repeating the same falsehood does not make it true.

None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see.

--- Matthew Henry

 

[-57]

Anyone who (like "57" ) offered Answers in Genesis as an authoritative source will never consider any science at all. The specific study was interesting- a seriously large number of phenotypic changes appeared in just ~30 generations. They would in the absence of genetic studies lead to a reasonable assignment of a new "sub-species." What I would like to see are some re-introductions of the source. Is there a reproductive isolation?

To be honest, I have no problem with rapid speciation. I call that micro-evolution. No mutations are required or mutations destroy what previously existed and change the animal. On the other hand Macro-evolutionism is a much different story.

I'm still waiting for someone to show how mutations add up. Why is this such a difficult topic for the evo-minded? You would think after 150+ years they would have a good answer.

 

[-57]

There's no evidence it's plasticity, especially since that isn't heritable. What other mechanism would it be?


What would you consider as scientific proof?

I've been kind enough to provide you with several routes...and you battled me on all of them....ALL THE WHILE..never showing mutations were involved. All I heard was an unsupported claim. Do you have the science to back up your statement or not?

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

Anyone who (like "57" ) offered Answers in Genesis as an authoritative source will never consider any science at all.

To be honest, I have no problem with rapid speciation. I call that micro-evolution. No mutations are required or mutations destroy what previously existed and change the animal. On the other hand Macro-evolutionism is a much different story.

I'm still waiting for someone to show how mutations add up. Why is this such a difficult topic for the evo-minded? You would think after 150+ years they would have a good answer.

You have been given many references to exactly that data which you refused to read. The actual ability to directly measure this is about 30 years old, not 150. But, we don't expect you to be within even an order of magnitude.