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The Call Within Israel to Nuke Iran Now

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thereselittleflower

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Theresa, all you do is spout nonsense. You provide biased evidence in tones of hysteria to back it up, and pretend you aren't slingin' mud at Isreal. Then you deny the common knowlege of dirt on the devils you defend with undefendable accusations of "demonizing".
You are demonizing yourself.
Have at it. It doesn't look like a choir is forming behind you, tho.

Your opinions do not valid rebuttal make .. this continuous stream of ad hominem attacks against the person, and rather emotional ones at that, instead of rational, well reasoned, calm responses do not serve you well.

You should try to engage on the actual arguments in a measured, rational, calm even manner if you want those who are measured and calm to take you seriously.

All you are appealing to are those who react emotionally to emotionally charged rhetoric such as you are pouring out. Those are a dime a dozen.

And, you are mistaken in your assumption . . I am not looking for a choir to form behind me. ;)

And dispite all this, I expect more mud slinging from you in response.

Truth is heavy, and few are willing to bear it because of the way others treat them when they do. Your posts provide excellent examples of why few are willing.

.
 
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Carey

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carey, this is an entirely hypthetical fallacy . . . it's like me asking you if you beat your wife again today?

It assume facts not in evidence and thus is illogical as a question.

Since Iran never said such a thing, your question is the same fallacy, but worse, because it assumse something that is known to be utterly false.

Why don't you take time to become better aqauinted with the facts rather than the demonizing myth-rhetoric you find so easy to believe?


.
Hypethetical?? Here are some facts even you should be able to accept.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=5166

This one is from an IRANIAN paper.

Iran’s state-owned media and newspapers have been reporting the Israeli leader’s deteriorating health condition with evident glee. In a statement put out by state-run news agencies, the Headquarters for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Movement said “the death of Sharon brings joy to the hearts of Muslims”.

The ultra-conservative president told the radical Shiite Islamists, many of whom have come to Qom from different Muslim countries, that Islam did not restrict itself to geographical borders.

“We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It’s a universal ideology that leads the world to justice”, Ahmadinejad said.

“We don’t shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world”, he added.

Ahmadinejad dwelled on his recurrent theme that the return of the Shiite Messiah, the Mahdi, is not far away and Muslims must prepare for it.

“We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of the Return”, Ahmadinejad said, referring to the Shiite Muslim belief that the Mahdi, on his return, will establish justice in a world consumed by chaos and corruption.

“If we work on the basis of the Expectation of the Return [of the Mahdi], all the affairs of our nation will be streamlined and the administration of the country will become easier”, Ahmadinejad said.

“Some politicians think we had a revolution so that some could hit others in the head and have one party ruling for some time and another party in opposition for some time. But we had a revolution to achieve a lofty goal, on the basis on the Expectation of the Return”, he said.

Ahmadinejad said Divine Providence was helping Iran’s Islamist regime, as the turn of events around the world picked up speed.

“Our interpretation is that the hand of the Almighty is putting every piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the future of the world in place in line with the goals of Islam”, the hard-line president said.

Ahmadinejad cited the United States occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, both Iran’s neighbours, as proof of his assertion.

“The Global Oppressor [the U.S.] occupied these countries with the aim of putting pressure on Iran, but God let the fruit of this fall on the lap of the Iranian nation”, he said.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Hypethetical?? Here are some facts even you should be able to accept.

Facts? Whose "facts"? Your's? :doh: You haven't produced "facts". You've simply parroted a source giving its spin on proof texted portions of a speach, stripped of their context which you then try to make appear as something that fits your claims.

The fact is, what you claimed previously is utterly false. You failed to deal with that, but are now trying to use this as some kind of valid response. It is not for many reasons, not the least of which it has nothing to do with your previous claim.

You read much into these words you quote . . your hype and sensationalist claims is what makes these to appear other than they are. let's look . . .


No, it is fron Iran Focus, a web site, which is not considered reliable by its critics. Iranian sources have mistranslated Ahmadejinad's speaches before, to make them sound worse to western ears, as has already been revealed in this thread, and so an Iranian source is not the best of sources to use.

But let's look at a few things . . . such spin put on words and to portrary his words the way the source wants to portray it . .notice the cliped phrases without any actual context. . . . . these "quotes" have been stripped of their context. We have no idea as to their accuracy.

Iran’s state-owned media and newspapers have been reporting the Israeli leader’s deteriorating health condition with evident glee. In a statement put out by state-run news agencies, the Headquarters for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Movement said “the death of Sharon brings joy to the hearts of Muslims”.

Notice this is not a complete sentence that was quoted. It is proof texting the speach to the sources advantage, putting its own spin on it.

The truth of the matter is, Sharon was a war criminal, who deserved the name "butcher". There was reason for rejoicing as there is when anyone guilty of the heineious crimes Sharon was guilty of dies. Announcing that fact is simply a matter of fact and implies nothing evil as you want to use it for:
Sabra and Shatila victims and survivors have had their first day in court in Belgium. On Monday, 18 June 2001 three lawyers filed before an investigating judge (Madame le juge d'instruction Sophie Huguet) in Brussels a complaint on behalf of 28 plaintiffs and witnesses, all survivors of the 1982 massacre committed in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila, Beirut. With this act, a case has been formally opened against Ariel Sharon, Prime Minister of Israel, on counts of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.

.....The complaint is filed against Ariel Sharon, Amos Yaron and any Israeli or Lebanese person responsible for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes that happened between 16-18 September 1982, including the killing, torture, rape and "disappearance" of between 1,000 and 3,500 civilians - children, women and men, Lebanese and Palestinians. The complaint is based on customary international law, including jus cogens, as well as Belgian law. Even though an official Israeli commission of inquiry (Kahan Commission, 1983) judged Sharon "personally responsible" for the massacre, no further legal actions arose from this judgment. With Sharon's resignation from the office of Minister of Defense, Israeli and world public opinion soon forgot the massacre and its victims.

.....Reading their testimonies brings back the horrific scale and character of a massacre that ranks among the worst of the 20th century. The plaintiffs are represented by three lawyers: Luc Walleyn, Michael Verhaeghe, and Chibli Mallat. The day following the formal submission of the complaint, Patrick Collignon was formally appointed juge d'instruction to carry out the inquiry. He will conduct the proceedings, and the inquiry has offically started.

Sharon Crimes
http://www.desert-voice.net/sharon_crimes.htm


So no surprises or evil intent here. I am sure Jews and many others rejoiced when Hitler died too. So your point is? ;)

What was good for the Jews is not good for the Muslims?

The ultra-conservative president told the radical Shiite Islamists, many of whom have come to Qom from different Muslim countries, that Islam did not restrict itself to geographical borders.

“We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It’s a universal ideology that leads the world to justice”, Ahmadinejad said.

And what is so terrible about those words? :scratch: Of course Islam is not restricted to geographicial borders. . .

It is a RELIGION for goodness sakes! How in the world can this be looked at as somehow justifying your positon?

Is Christianity confined to geographical borders?

Is Judaism confined to geographicial borders?

So what are you implying here? That what is good for Chrisitanity and Judaism is not good for Islam?

Quite prejudicial, don't you think?

“We don’t shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world”, he added.

We have no idea if this is a legitimate quote or not, so no intelligent comment can be made, especially since no context is given. . . this type of "proof texting" is exactly what unreasonable people love to use to try to prove their points, and they do so to make the bible say whatever they want it to say.

You have not linked us to the actual speach or a reliable translation, but to hearsay, which is inadmissiable as vaild evidence in a court of law.

Yet you want us to believe THIS hearsay why? Because it suits your purposes to paint Ahmadenijad in an evil ligth?

How "fair and balanced" of you . . NOT! :doh:

Ahmadinejad dwelled on his recurrent theme that the return of the Shiite Messiah, the Mahdi, is not far away and Muslims must prepare for it.

“We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of the Return”, Ahmadinejad said, referring to the Shiite Muslim belief that the Mahdi, on his return, will establish justice in a world consumed by chaos and corruption.

So, let me get this straight. Because he supposedly said this, even if true, is some kind of proof of evil intent how?

Do you not claim that the Jewish Messiah is gooing to return to estaboish justice in a world consumed by chaos and corruption?

So, you have a priviledged right to do so but Ahmadinejad doesn't?

What gives you the right to make such claims and be considered virtuous for doing so, but to denounce his claims of the same in their version?

Pot - Kettle - Black

What's good for you isn't good for Ahmadinejad?

Sorry, quite a double standard and shows how unreasonable your arguments, stated or implied, are. . ..

"If we work on the basis of the Expectation of the Return [of the Mahdi], all the affairs of our nation will be streamlined and the administration of the country will become easier”, Ahmadinejad said.

Again, we have no way of knowing the veracity of any such quote, but even if accepted as it stands, why is an inefficient government in Iran more desirable than an efficient one when efficient governments mean that the needs of the people are better met, bringing increased order and justice?

Obvious its not, and this is a noble goal.

“Some politicians think we had a revolution so that some could hit others in the head and have one party ruling for some time and another party in opposition for some time. But we had a revolution to achieve a lofty goal, on the basis on the Expectation of the Return”, he said.

Ahmadinejad said Divine Providence was helping Iran’s Islamist regime, as the turn of events around the world picked up speed.

“Our interpretation is that the hand of the Almighty is putting every piece of the jigsaw puzzle of the future of the world in place in line with the goals of Islam”, the hard-line president said.

That's their belief.

Your belief is the same except you would say "in place with the goals of Christianity". . . .

Same ideology, different religion.

Again, Pot - Kettle - Black.

There is nothing inherently evil in such a statement even though that image is what you are trying to acheive by presenting this article.

Ahmadinejad cited the United States occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, both Iran’s neighbours, as proof of his assertion.

“The Global Oppressor [the U.S.] occupied these countries with the aim of putting pressure on Iran, but God let the fruit of this fall on the lap of the Iranian nation”, he said.


And? This is their viewpoint, and from their stand point it makes perfect sense.

In all of this, nothing here paints Iran as the great evil you want it to be. You have simply tried to use an unverified report of a speach, which we can't judge the veracity of the reporting, your source which has been questioned by its critics, to make it appear that some great evil is evident.

It's not.

But you will demonize Iran and Ahmadinejad all the same.

This reveals the strength of such prejudices.

Prejudices blind, prejudies demonize and lead to war.

Prejudice never led anyone to the truth or righteousness or justice and peace.

As Christians we are told to seek peace with all men and pursue it.

I don't see this command of God to Chrsitians being promoted in your posts. What I see being fomented here is fear and prejudice against Iran and Muslims. :(



.
 
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Carey

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Facts? Whose "facts"? Your's? You haven't produced "facts". You've simply parroted a source giving its spin on proof texted portions of a speach, stripped of their context which you then try to make appear as something that fits your claims.

The fact is, what you claimed previously is utterly false. You failed to deal with that, but are now trying to use this as some kind of valid response. It is not for many reasons, not the least of which it has nothing to do with your previous claim.

You read much into these words you quote . . your hype and sensationalist claims is what makes these to appear other than they are. let's look . . .



No, it is fron Iran Focus, a web site, which is not considered reliable by its critics. Iranian sources have mistranslated Ahmadejinad's speaches before, to make them sound worse to western ears, as has already been revealed in this thread, and so an Iranian source is not the best of sources to use.

But let's look at a few things . . . such spin put on words and to portrary his words the way the source wants to portray it . .notice the cliped phrases without any actual context. . . . . these "quotes" have been stripped of their context. We have no idea as to their accuracy.



Notice this is not a complete sentence that was quoted. It is proof texting the speach to the sources advantage, putting its own spin on it.



The truth of the matter is, Sharon was a war criminal, who deserved the name "butcher". There was reason for rejoicing as there is when anyone guilty of the heineious crimes Sharon was guilty of dies. Announcing that fact is simply a matter of fact and implies nothing evil as you want to use it for:
Sabra and Shatila victims and survivors have had their first day in court in Belgium. On Monday, 18 June 2001 three lawyers filed before an investigating judge (Madame le juge d'instruction Sophie Huguet) in Brussels a complaint on behalf of 28 plaintiffs and witnesses, all survivors of the 1982 massacre committed in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila, Beirut. With this act, a case has been formally opened against Ariel Sharon, Prime Minister of Israel, on counts of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.​

.....The complaint is filed against Ariel Sharon, Amos Yaron and any Israeli or Lebanese person responsible for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes that happened between 16-18 September 1982, including the killing, torture, rape and "disappearance" of between 1,000 and 3,500 civilians - children, women and men, Lebanese and Palestinians. The complaint is based on customary international law, including jus cogens, as well as Belgian law. Even though an official Israeli commission of inquiry (Kahan Commission, 1983) judged Sharon "personally responsible" for the massacre, no further legal actions arose from this judgment. With Sharon's resignation from the office of Minister of Defense, Israeli and world public opinion soon forgot the massacre and its victims.​

.....Reading their testimonies brings back the horrific scale and character of a massacre that ranks among the worst of the 20th century. The plaintiffs are represented by three lawyers: Luc Walleyn, Michael Verhaeghe, and Chibli Mallat. The day following the formal submission of the complaint, Patrick Collignon was formally appointed juge d'instruction to carry out the inquiry. He will conduct the proceedings, and the inquiry has offically started.​

Sharon Crimes

So no surprises or evil intent here. I am sure Jews and many others rejoiced when Hitler died too. So your point is?

What was good for the Jews is not good for the Muslims?



And what is so terrible about those words? Of course Islam is not restricted to geographicial borders. . .

It is a RELIGION for goodness sakes! How in the world can this be looked at as somehow justifying your positon?

Is Christianity confined to geographical borders?

Is Judaism confined to geographicial borders?

So what are you implying here? That what is good for Chrisitanity and Judaism is not good for Islam?

Quite prejudicial, don't you think?



We have no idea if this is a legitimate quote or not, so no intelligent comment can be made, especially since no context is given. . . this type of "proof texting" is exactly what unreasonable people love to use to try to prove their points, and they do so to make the bible say whatever they want it to say.

You have not linked us to the actual speach or a reliable translation, but to hearsay, which is inadmissiable as vaild evidence in a court of law.

Yet you want us to believe THIS hearsay why? Because it suits your purposes to paint Ahmadenijad in an evil ligth?

How "fair and balanced" of you . . NOT! :doh:



So, let me get this straight. Because he supposedly said this, even if true, is some kind of proof of evil intent how?

Do you not claim that the Jewish Messiah is gooing to return to estaboish justice in a world consumed by chaos and corruption?

So, you have a priviledged right to do so but Ahmadinejad doesn't?

What gives you the right to make such claims and be considered virtuous for doing so, but to denounce his claims of the same in their version?

Pot - Kettle - Black

What's good for you isn't good for Ahmadinejad?

Sorry, quite a double standard and shows how unreasonable your arguments, stated or implied, are. . ..



Again, we have no way of knowing the veracity of any such quote, but even if accepted as it stands, why is an inefficient government in Iran more desirable than an efficient one when efficient governments mean that the needs of the people are better met, bringing increased order and justice?

Obvious its not, and this is a noble goal.



That's their belief.

Your belief is the same except you would say "in place with the goals of Christianity". . . .

Same ideology, different religion.

Again, Pot - Kettle - Black.

There is nothing inherently evil in such a statement even though that image is what you are trying to acheive by presenting this article.




And? This is their viewpoint, and from their stand point it makes perfect sense.

In all of this, nothing here paints Iran as the great evil you want it to be. You have simply tried to use an unverified report of a speach, which we can't judge the veracity of the reporting, your source which has been questioned by its critics, to make it appear that some great evil is evident.

It's not.

But you will demonize Iran and Ahmadinejad all the same.

This reveals the strength of such prejudices.

Prejudices blind, prejudies demonize and lead to war.

Prejudice never led anyone to the truth or righteousness or justice and peace.

As Christians we are told to seek peace with all men and pursue it.

I don't see this command of God to Chrsitians being promoted in your posts. What I see being fomented here is fear and prejudice against Iran and Muslims. :(



.

You are too funny..^_^

Here are a few more for ya. I am dying to see how you spin these.

You might be as good of a propganist for these terrorist regimes as their ones on payrole..LOL
Armadinijad already admitted to having a complete battallion of suicide bombers who attack civilians.
I heard him admit to it on an interbiew on TV with his own lips.


My close friend in Houston Texas who is a Christian Palestinian immigrant recently here with her whole family from Bethlehem where the were ALL born for as far back as they can trace theri lieage will agree with alla you are about to read.


Despite pro-Arab claims, however, there is no evidence of Jewish persecution of Christians in Israel.

The persecution of Christians in Iran today is not a series of isolated events or the result of individual prejudices but rather a state policy implemented at all levels in various forms. It affects both individuals as well as the church as a whole.

After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80% Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30% respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's population.

Serious violations of religious freedom are reported from within the Palestinian Authority, especially the persecution of Muslims who have converted to Christianity. In the Christian town of Bet Jella, a human rights lawyer reported brutal interrogation methods and arbitrary arrests based on fabricated criminal charges against Muslims who have converted to Christianity and their families. His report includes testimony about torture from victims who were terrified to criticize the Palestinian Authority and their secret police.
In Nazareth, the Christian population has decreased dramatically due to the rise and spread of militant Islam. The Islamic Movement (a radical Muslim group) has demanded the construction of a mosque near the Church of the Annunciation, a mosque even some moderate Muslims oppose. On Easter, 1999, the Muslim group burned Christian stores and targeted Christians over the issue; attempts to intervene were frustrated because Christians are terrified to speak out.
Hundreds of Christian families have left Palestinian towns like Bet Jella and Bethlehem during the al-Aqsa intifada, caught literally in the crossfire between Palestinians and Israelis. On the West Bank, a nearly-permanent Muslim boycott of Christian businesses is achieving its objective: driving the Christians to emigrate.
In October 2000, Christians were attacked in Gaza after a Palestinian Muslim leader called for a "jihad" against both Jews and Christians.
In February 2002 a Muslim mob, including Palestinian Authority Special Forces, burned Christian businesses and attempted to destroy the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches in Ramallah. The attack occurred after a Christian man killed a Muslim while being pursued by a Muslim gang because he refused to pay protection money for safe passage to his home.
In October 2000, Christians were attacked in Gaza after a Palestinian Muslim leader called for a "jihad" against both Jews and Christians


Here is what the lying Arafat did
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30299

Islam remains intolerant of any other group of people. Others are not accepted on an equal basis, only as dhimmis to be subjugated by Islam. Muslim children are taught to chant:
  • We shall fight on Saturday and then on Sunday
In other words, first the Jews and then the Christians.

here are a few more for ya

http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/March/Jews/

http://www.jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/ira1.htm

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_current_christians.php
 
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Rick Otto

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It seems that Theresa thinks Iran can do no wrong.
It appears that Theresa thinks Isreal is the devil incarnate.
She seems to be intelligent, and she appears to know what she's talking about.
It would seem to appear that I'm learning her devices.
Read the Theo Report Forum thread(s) & you'll see what I mean.
As Christians we are told to seek peace with all men and pursue it.

I don't see this command of God to Christians being promoted in her posts. What I see being fomented there is fear and prejudice against Isreal and Jews.
 
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irateional

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Staff edited.
Oh please. She might be extreme on some things, but she's been rather valid about the other things.


Look, the Iranian President plays a game of politics. He's using the hard-line conservatives to get power. The best way to win this is to turn the Iranians on the cons.

Besides, is it so different from US policy? We've only invaded 3 middle-eastern countries bordering Iran, said that we would invade Iran, and have a President who claims that Israel is perfect and holy. We have a majority of Americans believing that Israel is blessed by God and all the Islamic nations are evil.

In those circumstances, don't be surprised to get the same polemic rants from the other side.
 
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irateional

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It seems that Theresa thinks Iran can do no wrong.
It appears that Theresa thinks Isreal is the devil incarnate.
She seems to be intelligent, and she appears to know what she's talking about.
It would seem to appear that I'm learning her devices.
Read the Theo Report Forum thread(s) & you'll see what I mean.
As Christians we are told to seek peace with all men and pursue it.

I don't see this command of God to Christians being promoted in her posts. What I see being fomented there is fear and prejudice against Isreal and Jews.
I do agree to a degree.

Then again, Israel isn't exactly a wonderful nation full of ponies and flowers. I think unfortunately, the attitude of most American Christians ist hat Israel can do no wrong, and every other middle-eastern country is evil for hating Israel.

In reality, they do have valid reasons for hating Israel, but that doesn't validate the hate itself. It only tells me that neither side is really any more "moral" than the other.
 
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thereselittleflower

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And so beings the tirade of logical fallacies with the intent of smearing another member - the objective is a logical fallacy . . AD HOMINEM . . ATTACK THE PERSON . . as if somehow anything about the person invalidates the arguments and facts themselves. . :doh:

Nothing but EXREME logical fallacy! :eek:

Logical fallacies do not need to be defended against, as they are illogical to begin with . .

They only need to be exposed:

It seems that Theresa thinks Iran can do no wrong.

Logical Fallacy - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE

It appears that Theresa thinks Isreal is the devil incarnate.

Logical Fallacy - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE

She seems to be intelligent, and she appears to know what she's talking about.

Logical Fallacy - AD HOMINEM - casting dispersionas on my intelligence by implied inunendo.

It would seem to appear that I'm learning her devices.

Logical Fallacy - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE

Read the Theo Report Forum thread(s) & you'll see what I mean.
As Christians we are told to seek peace with all men and pursue it.

I don't see this command of God to Christians being promoted in her posts. What I see being fomented there is fear and prejudice against Isreal and Jews.

Logical Fallacy - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE

It appears that Rick Otto holds toa distorted view of what this peace actually is, that we should seak peace at the expense of justice, for if seeking justice (which requires the exposing of crimes) is the anti-thesis of seeking peace, which is what his "arguments" (if you can call them that) imply, then it is evident, by implication of his own words, that seeking justice has no place in seeking peace.

However, there can be no TRUE peace without justice.

It appears that what Rick Otto is promoting is a false peace of "warm fuzzies" which compromises on the truth and justice.

It appears he has confused this false, psuedo compromising peace of "warm fuzzies" with the TRUE seeking of TRUE PEACE which requires INJUSTICE to be exposed and JUSTICE obtained.

Since what I promote is seeking TRUE peace which requires Justice, his claims are obviously have no basis in reality.

;)

.
.



 
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thereselittleflower

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You are too funny..^_^

Here are a few more for ya. I am dying to see how you spin these.

You might be as good of a propganist for these terrorist regimes as their ones on payrole..LOL
Armadinijad already admitted to having a complete battallion of suicide bombers who attack civilians.
I heard him admit to it on an interbiew on TV with his own lips.

This is a logical fallacious argument - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

Since I am not pro-Iran, or pro-Iranian regime, or pro-terrorists, your attack is absolutely meaningless, and if such personal attacks continue atempting to link me with terrorism, which is defamation/libel, it will be construed harrassment.

My close friend in Houston Texas who is a Christian Palestinian immigrant recently here with her whole family from Bethlehem where the were ALL born for as far back as they can trace theri lieage will agree with alla you are about to read.

Despite pro-Arab claims, however, there is no evidence of Jewish persecution of Christians in Israel.

Baloney. The only ones who believe such nonsense are those want to believe it.

I guess the NUMEROUS stories of Arab Chrsitians being persecuted by Israel don't count becaue they are Arab, right?

You do know what dismissing the testimony of people based on their race is called, right? :sick:

What a perversion of justice and Christian principles!

And you expect us to take you credibly when you say things like this?

You just totally shot any crediblity you may have had with me.

I don't reject testimony based on their race as you have above.

The persecution of Christians in Iran today is not a series of isolated events or the result of individual prejudices but rather a state policy implemented at all levels in various forms. It affects both individuals as well as the church as a whole.

Who is talking about persecution of chrsitians in Iran other than you? Are you arguing wth yourself now? :ebil:

After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80% Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30% respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's population.

And you claim there is no persecution of Christians in Israel by Jews?

The rest of your post tries to make a case, by implication, that all persecution of Christians in Israel is by Muslims. While some is, by no means is it all, and your arguments ignore all the attrocities and harrassment of Christians by the Jews in Israel and its goverment.

The very fact that the laws of Israel give rights and priveledges to Jews that it denies to Christians is itself persecution.

One should read this testimony from a retired TWA Captain, as well as a retired LCDR USN:
There were a few minor inconveniences but all in all, a layover in the Tel Aviv Hilton was considered a good one.

The crews were given the same rooms each trip, so I got the same housekeeper, who I assumed was a nice Jewish lady. As is the custom, I brought her a small box of Chocolates each trip. She was very thankful.
On one occasion, I got talking with her. It was Saturday, and she was working. I asked her if she was violating Jewish law by working. To my surprise, she told me she was not Jewish, but an Orthodox Christian.

We spoke further about how things were for a Christian in The Jewish State. "Bad, real bad, Captain" was her reply. I questioned her further and got such a hard luck story as to be almost unbelievable, but this was a very open and honest woman. She told me of the discrimination she faced on a daily basis, the hardships of having to live in a segregated area far from work, the lower wages paid to Christians, pat-down body searches by Israeli soldiers at check points, and so on. She was in tears when she finally finished. I was very mad.​

What did he do? He began to write letters regarding such injustices . . .

What happened to him? Something simliar we see here at CF that happens to those of us who DARE to stand up and be critical of the Zionist Regime in Israel . .. He was called on the carpet, harrassed . . let's look:

Enter
Mr. Suall, of the ADL. In a letter to my Chief Pilot, he complained loudly about how there was an anti-Semite flying TWA's airplanes, to Tel Aviv, of all places.

How does TWA expect it's Jewish passengers feel with a maniac like this flying them? I was hauled in to the office and asked to explain myself. I did. I told my boss I was exercising my freedom of the press, and I was not involving the company in my letters. I also pointed out that the Gentiles in Israel were Semites, whereas most of the Jews were not.

Apparently Suall became enraged that no action was taken. More letters followed in which I was described as insane, dangerous, a poor pilot, a drunk, a wife beater, a child abuser, etc. and for G-d's sake, shut this man up!. All this was nonsense, of course. I have a lovely Irish wife and 6 healthy, happy children. When asked by the boss what I had to say for myself, I called Suall a liar. I asked if there was any proof of what he said. There was none.​

http://christianparty.net/israelchristians.htm

This is quite similar to the tactics taken against those who dare to take a stand against the policies and ideologies of Zionism here at CF . .. .

hmmmmmm . . . . . . . .


And what about that Anti-Defamation League? Is it really "anti-defamation"?

The leading official monitor of anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith, interprets anti-Semitism as unwillingness to conform to its requirements with regard to support for Israeli authorities. These conceptions were clearly expounded by ADL National Director Nathan Perlmutter, who wrote that while old-fashioned anti-Semitism has declined, there is a new and more dangerous variety on the part of "peacemakers of Vietnam vintage, transmuters of swords into plowshares, championing the terrorist P.L.O.," and those who condemn U.S. policies in Vietnam and Central America while "sniping at American defense budgets." He fears that "nowadays war is getting a bad name and peace too favorable a press" with the rise of this "real anti-Semitism." The logic is straightforward: Anti-Semitism is opposition to the interests of Israel (as the ADL sees them); and these interests are threatened by "the liberals," the churches, and others who do not adhere to the ADL political line.114

The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming "one of the main pillars" of Israeli propaganda in the U.S., as the Israeli press casually describes it, engaged in surveillance, blacklisting, compilation of FBI-style files circulated to adherents for the purpose of defamation, angry public responses to criticism of Israeli actions, and so on.

114 Nathan and Ruth Perlmutter, The Real Anti-Semitism in America (Arbor House, 1982);

Necessary Illusions, Noam Chomsky 1989 Appendix V Segment 20/33

Hmmmm . . .sounds a lot like what happens here to those who dare criticize Israel and Political Zionism!

What a coincidence!

The ADL is
"...one of the ugliest, most powerful pressure groups in the U.S...Its primary commitment is to use any technique, however dishonest and disgraceful, in order to defame and silence and destroy anybody who dares to criticize the Holy State ('Israel')." --Noam Chomsky, Professor of Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Too many journalists run ADL spin with little real knowledge about the organization and it's history - even recent history.

Take the case of the couple in Denver, for example.

Judge rules that judgment against ADL stands [FinalCall.com] - A ruling by a federal judge in Denver March 31 which upheld most of a year-old $10 million jury finding that the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) libeled a couple by falsely portraying them as anti-Semites may at last call into question the group’s heretofore unassailable reputation as the sole "defender of the Jews" in America.
Judge Slams ADL for Hurting Couple Tarred As 'Anti-Semites' By Marc Perelman [forward.com] April 13. 2001 ... "Can you imagine an organization using money from Marc Rich, a guy who made millions dealing with anti-Semitic countries like Iran, attacking powerless people for some alleged anti-Semitic slurs?" he said.

UPHOLDING most of a $10 million defamation suit against the Anti- Defamation League, a federal judge in Denver has lambasted the organization for labeling a nasty neighborhood feud as an anti-Semitic event. In upholding the first-ever court defeat handed to the 87-year-old ADL, U.S. District Judge Edward Nottingham said the organization had endorsed and publicized the bigotry accusations of a Jewish couple against its neighbors without either investigating the case or weighing the consequences. Judge Slams ADL for Hurting Couple Tarred As 'Anti-Semites'

http://www.zpub.com/notes/adl2.html


hmmmm . .. $10 million dollar lawsuit won for libel for calling someone anti-semitic . .. . .


.
 
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Carey

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This is a logical fallacious argument - ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

Since I am not pro-Iran, or pro-Iranian regime, or pro-terrorists, your attack is absolutely meaningless, and if such personal attacks continue atempting to link me with terrorism, which is defamation/libel, it will be construed harrassment.



Baloney. The only ones who believe such nonsense are those want to believe it.

I guess the NUMEROUS stories of Arab Chrsitians being persecuted by Israel don't count becaue they are Arab, right?

You do know what dismissing the testimony of people based on their race is called, right? :sick:

What a perversion of justice and Christian principles!

And you expect us to take you credibly when you say things like this?

You just totally shot any crediblity you may have had with me.

I don't reject testimony based on their race as you have above.



Who is talking about persecution of chrsitians in Iran other than you? Are you arguing wth yourself now? :ebil:



And you claim there is no persecution of Christians in Israel by Jews?

The rest of your post tries to make a case, by implication, that all persecution of Christians in Israel is by Muslims. While some is, by no means is it all, and your arguments ignore all the attrocities and harrassment of Christians by the Jews in Israel and its goverment.

The very fact that the laws of Israel give rights and priveledges to Jews that it denies to Christians is itself persecution.



One should read this testimony from a retired TWA Captain, as well as a retired LCDR USN:
There were a few minor inconveniences but all in all, a layover in the Tel Aviv Hilton was considered a good one.​

The crews were given the same rooms each trip, so I got the same housekeeper, who I assumed was a nice Jewish lady. As is the custom, I brought her a small box of Chocolates each trip. She was very thankful.​
On one occasion, I got talking with her. It was Saturday, and she was working. I asked her if she was violating Jewish law by working. To my surprise, she told me she was not Jewish, but an Orthodox Christian.​

We spoke further about how things were for a Christian in The Jewish State. "Bad, real bad, Captain" was her reply. I questioned her further and got such a hard luck story as to be almost unbelievable, but this was a very open and honest woman. She told me of the discrimination she faced on a daily basis, the hardships of having to live in a segregated area far from work, the lower wages paid to Christians, pat-down body searches by Israeli soldiers at check points, and so on. She was in tears when she finally finished. I was very mad.​
What did he do? He began to write letters regarding such injustices . . .

What happened to him? Something simliar we see here at CF that happens to those of us who DARE to stand up and be critical of the Zionist Regime in Israel . .. He was called on the carpet, harrassed . . let's look:

Enter​
Mr. Suall, of the ADL. In a letter to my Chief Pilot, he complained loudly about how there was an anti-Semite flying TWA's airplanes, to Tel Aviv, of all places.

How does TWA expect it's Jewish passengers feel with a maniac like this flying them? I was hauled in to the office and asked to explain myself. I did. I told my boss I was exercising my freedom of the press, and I was not involving the company in my letters. I also pointed out that the Gentiles in Israel were Semites, whereas most of the Jews were not.

Apparently Suall became enraged that no action was taken. More letters followed in which I was described as insane, dangerous, a poor pilot, a drunk, a wife beater, a child abuser, etc. and for G-d's sake, shut this man up!. All this was nonsense, of course. I have a lovely Irish wife and 6 healthy, happy children. When asked by the boss what I had to say for myself, I called Suall a liar. I asked if there was any proof of what he said. There was none.​
http://christianparty.net/israelchristians.htm

This is quite similar to the tactics taken against those who dare to take a stand against the policies and ideologies of Zionism here at CF . .. .

hmmmmmm . . . . . . . .


And what about that Anti-Defamation League? Is it really "anti-defamation"?

The leading official monitor of anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith, interprets anti-Semitism as unwillingness to conform to its requirements with regard to support for Israeli authorities. These conceptions were clearly expounded by ADL National Director Nathan Perlmutter, who wrote that while old-fashioned anti-Semitism has declined, there is a new and more dangerous variety on the part of "peacemakers of Vietnam vintage, transmuters of swords into plowshares, championing the terrorist P.L.O.," and those who condemn U.S. policies in Vietnam and Central America while "sniping at American defense budgets." He fears that "nowadays war is getting a bad name and peace too favorable a press" with the rise of this "real anti-Semitism." The logic is straightforward: Anti-Semitism is opposition to the interests of Israel (as the ADL sees them); and these interests are threatened by "the liberals," the churches, and others who do not adhere to the ADL political line.114​

The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming "one of the main pillars" of Israeli propaganda in the U.S., as the Israeli press casually describes it, engaged in surveillance, blacklisting, compilation of FBI-style files circulated to adherents for the purpose of defamation, angry public responses to criticism of Israeli actions, and so on.​

114 Nathan and Ruth Perlmutter, The Real Anti-Semitism in America (Arbor House, 1982);​

Necessary Illusions, Noam Chomsky 1989 Appendix V Segment 20/33​
Hmmmm . . .sounds a lot like what happens here to those who dare criticize Israel and Political Zionism!

What a coincidence!

The ADL is​
"...one of the ugliest, most powerful pressure groups in the U.S...Its primary commitment is to use any technique, however dishonest and disgraceful, in order to defame and silence and destroy anybody who dares to criticize the Holy State ('Israel')." --Noam Chomsky, Professor of Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology​

Too many journalists run ADL spin with little real knowledge about the organization and it's history - even recent history.​

Take the case of the couple in Denver, for example.​

Judge rules that judgment against ADL stands [FinalCall.com] - A ruling by a federal judge in Denver March 31 which upheld most of a year-old $10 million jury finding that the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) libeled a couple by falsely portraying them as anti-Semites may at last call into question the group’s heretofore unassailable reputation as the sole "defender of the Jews" in America.​
Judge Slams ADL for Hurting Couple Tarred As 'Anti-Semites' By Marc Perelman [forward.com] April 13. 2001 ... "Can you imagine an organization using money from Marc Rich, a guy who made millions dealing with anti-Semitic countries like Iran, attacking powerless people for some alleged anti-Semitic slurs?" he said.​

UPHOLDING most of a $10 million defamation suit against the Anti- Defamation League, a federal judge in Denver has lambasted the organization for labeling a nasty neighborhood feud as an anti-Semitic event. In upholding the first-ever court defeat handed to the 87-year-old ADL, U.S. District Judge Edward Nottingham said the organization had endorsed and publicized the bigotry accusations of a Jewish couple against its neighbors without either investigating the case or weighing the consequences. Judge Slams ADL for Hurting Couple Tarred As 'Anti-Semites'​


hmmmm . .. $10 million dollar lawsuit won for libel for calling someone anti-semitic . .. . .




.

Psalms 129 : 5 May all who hate Zion
be turned back in shame.

6 May they be like grass on the roof,
which withers before it can grow; 7 with it the reaper cannot fill his hands,
nor the one who gathers fill his arms.

Ezekial 30 : 5 Cush and Put, Lydia and all Arabia, Libya [b] and the people of the covenant land will fall by the sword ( NUKE?? ) along with Egypt.
6 " 'This is what the LORD says:
" 'The allies of Egypt will fall
and her proud strength will fail.
 
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