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The builder will eventually return

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Jo1

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The Builder will Eventually Return

by Bruce Malone



Parables are stories about familiar things which illustrate a deeper meaning. The following parable has its roots in modern man’s search for the origin of life.
In an isolated jungle lived a tribe of primitive people with no knowledge of the world outside their village. They had never been in contact with any modern technology and lived in constant struggle with other tribal groups. One day as members of the tribe were hunting in unknown territory, they stumbled upon the wreckage of a crashed airplane. Approaching the plane with caution they touched the metal surface and ran their hands over the smooth glass of the cockpit window. As they ran back to the village to report the find to the village elders many questions ran through their minds. Where could this huge structure have come from? A debate over the origin of this strange object soon raged - had the gods sent it to them as a sign? The village polarized into opposing viewpoints.
One opinion was that the object was built by humans. After all, the skeletal remains of several humans were found within the decaying structure. Others believed the object must have had a natural origin. To believe it was created by other humans would acknowledge an intelligence surpassing their own.
Those believing that the airplane was designed and built by other intelligent humans argued that this was obvious, but could not prove how, why, or when. All attempts to explain how, why, or when, which were not based on a belief in random natural processes, were severely ridiculed. The tribal elders believed that all of the knowledge needed to explain the world around them was in the possession of their tribal counsel and any attempt to persuade them otherwise was met with severe punishment. The first group soon became silent.
Those believing in the natural origin of the object strengthened their argument by showing that the same rubber-like substance found in the tires could be found oozing from trees. Likewise, a substance similar to the glass could be found on beaches where lightning had struck the sand. The paint and fluids in the structure could also be shown to occur naturally. By throwing one of the screws into the air with just the right spinning motion and catching it in just the right hole, the screw would even partially spin into place.
Amongst themselves they agreed that, given enough time, the structure could have built itself (although the exact mechanism was not yet known).
Even more convincing evidence was forthcoming as the deteriorating airplane was repaired and the parts rearranged. Since the natives eventually understood so much about the structure, this was accepted as proof that the plane had built itself. A project was even started to map, catalogue, and understand every piece of the structure. All of these observations confirmed to the primitive natives that they had been correct in their understanding of the natural origin of the object.
Those stubborn few who continued to believe the object was created by other intelligent people were considered backward and ignorant. They were ignored, and village schools were organized so that all of the children would be taught only the naturalistic “scientific” explanation.
Within several generations, there was no longer any dissension because everyone now knew that random processes had produced the wrecked airplane. So the mystery was solved ... until the builder of the airplane returned.
 

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Galle

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Jo1, if you wanted a discussion, why didn't you just respond to this thread in the main forum?

Oh well, here's why your analogy is silly.

1) Evolution is accepted as a valid scientific theory because is has the weight of evidence behind it, not because evolutionists want to deny the possibility of a more intelligent being. I know that creationists like to try to turn it into a "Christianity vs. atheism" fight and dishonestly ascribe all sorts of nasty motivations to their opposition, but it just doesn't work that way. Most Christians accept evolution, and even atheists accept it because of evidence, not because they're trying to hide from God.

2) Evolution isn't a random process. Creationists like to imply or outright claim that all natural processes are "random" if they're not directly driven by God, but it's just not true. In fact, many scientific laws and theories are deterministic.

3) Humans are natural, not supernatural. When we build stuff, we're not invoking magic or supernatural powers, we're taking advantage of the natural laws of physics.

4) Actual scientific explanations actually explain things. It's not a matter of "Z appeared one day", but "A lead to B, which lead to C..." And even if the exact process isn't clear, evidence still constrains our hypotheses. For example, the early universe was far too hot for chemistry and life today is based on chemistry. It doesn't take a genius to see that somewhere along the lines, chemical-based life arose from non-life.

5) We don't say that creatures build themselves because we can understand their macro-structure, we say that creatures build themselves because that's exactly what we observe. There is no dog factory or horse factory, what we see are dogs and horses giving birth to new generations of dogs and horses.

In short, your analogy fails because of key differences between it and the actual creationism vs. science debate.
 
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theIdi0t

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The Builder will Eventually Return

by Bruce Malone


Parables are stories about familiar things which illustrate a deeper meaning. The following parable has its roots in modern man’s search for the origin of life.

Jo1, I'll try and help you out, though I am also working on a paper at the same time. Let's start with some basics: what do you know about evolution, and how natural selection works? Do you understand the basics?

Do you believe Noah had a pair each of a few millions species in the ark (including 350,000 pairs of species of beetles)?

If not how do you account for today's diversity, and what are the mechanics behind this diversity?

If you have no idea what evolution is beyond the phrase: "I didn't come from no monkey", then perhaps this is not where you should start. You must understand the basics, before you can understand the big picture.

So give us a brief summary of the basics you do understand, and perhaps we can work with you from there.

And please refrain from saying things like those who accept evolution are satanist, evolution is a religion, etc... because some of us here, are a bit touchy to such inferences
 
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philadiddle

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Do you believe Noah had a pair each of a few millions species in the ark (including 350,000 pairs of species of beetles)?
I think you meant "kind" not "species".:p
I thought only nostril breathing land animals went on the ark. I'm pretty sure beetles don't have nostrils.
 
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theIdi0t

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I think you meant "kind" not "species".:p
I thought only nostril breathing land animals went on the ark. I'm pretty sure beetles don't have nostrils.

Ah!!!! there goes that word again...I hate it...I hate it with a passion...I lost a good 30 minutes of my life trying to figure out what "kind" is, someone please give it back.....
 
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