The Blame Game~ Poll

[stormdancer0]

Many words no longer have the same meaning that they once had. Imagination, as I understand it, is the ability to create images in our mind of what cannot be seen in reality. It's the ability to create words and images that help convey perhaps a deeper truth. Or of course, it can be used to create things that tear apart and destroy. Like all things, it can be used for good or evil.

If this is not imagination, what is it? I have written an entire book of what I imagine Heaven will be like. It has changed several lives that I know of, possibly more that I don't. These changes have helped bring people closer to God. It is evil, just because it is imagination?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

According to Cruden's Complete Concordence
the word imagination means "an old meaning of the word is plotting or a devising of evil)
Considering the root word is image I'm not surprised!
while the same concordence says:
wisdom, as used in the scriptures is not only for learning but for skill in arts;
the instinct of birds and beasts; discretion; and spiritual insight.
God's wisdom is given to all lifeforms but only spiritual insight is Christian.

The word for that Wisdom is phronēsis. It means mental action/activity


(which is what I meant by intuition since intuition isn't a word in the bible)


Strong's Number G5428
Greek φρόνησις

It's found only once or twice in the NT

Luk 1:17
"He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,
to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Eph 1:8
which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,


Eph 1:8 is suspect because it doesn't appear in my book form of Strongs concordence
as such but online it is listed in Stronges.
Just the one rendering of Lk 1:17 does appear in the book I have.

All the other meanings for wisdom are the Greek Sophia #4678

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The word for that Wisdom is phronēsis.
It means mental action/activity


(which is what I meant by intuition since intuition isn't a word in the bible)


Strong's Number G5428
Greek φρόνησις

It's found only once or twice in the NT

Luk 1:17
"He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,
to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Eph 1:8
which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,


Eph 1:8 is suspect because it doesn't appear in my book form of Strongs concordence
as such but online it is listed in Stronges.
Just the one rendering of Lk 1:17 does appear in the book I have.

All the other meanings for wisdom are the Greek Sophia #4678

My definition of intuition is knowledge to act w/o motive
(a higher form of instinct that comes instantly from God.
Use it or lose it)

But the official meaning is

Definition of INTUITION
1
: quick and ready insight
2
a : immediate apprehension or cognition
b : knowledge or conviction gained by intuition
c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or
cognition without evident rational thought and inference


Examples of INTUITION
Intuition was telling her that something was very wrong.
“How did you know I would drop by?”
“Oh, I don't know. It must have been intuition.”

Origin of INTUITION
Middle English intuycyon, from Late Latin intuition-,
intuitio act of contemplating,
from Latin intuēri to look at, contemplate, from in- + tuēri to look at
First Known Use: 15th century

(iow=old school)


**************************
edit

phronēsis = God with us, leading in the Holy Spirit (which is Sophia)
thru our human spirit connected in obedience, with no human motive.
Those are actions that promote His economy in the world.
In this He uses whosoever He wills.

An aquired knowledge that lacks self motive and desires that results in
action that are given at the last moment from the Holy Spirit.
A higher form of instinct that the human mind and spirit can usually over ride
by placing self motive and desires in to bring it to the level of humanistic actions.
God's will is what is carried out when phronēsis is in play.


Contemplation of the higher faculties are always ready to act on command whereas
humanism won't because of self-interest placed before the Holy Spirit.

 

[razeontherock]

This is wonderful stuff, and most definitely ON topic.

 

[Jeshu]

The word for that Wisdom is phronēsis. It means mental action/activity


(which is what I meant by intuition since intuition isn't a word in the bible)


Strong's Number G5428
Greek φρόνησις

It's found only once or twice in the NT

Luk 1:17
"He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,
to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Eph 1:8
which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,


Eph 1:8 is suspect because it doesn't appear in my book form of Strongs concordence
as such but online it is listed in Stronges.
Just the one rendering of Lk 1:17 does appear in the book I have.

All the other meanings for wisdom are the Greek Sophia #4678

Yes I understand intuition to be closely linked to Elijah spirituality - eating wild honey and locust - preaching about the coming Messiah - in our faith life. (Jews/righteous)

However The Spirit of our Lord is what we truly want - for He gives us a sound mind and a pure heart - opening the door for Heavenly gifts to come down from God into our hearts.

So God's LOVING TRUTH - Jesus' Spirit/Seed within us - that is The Truth of God, read, understood and practises in The S(s)pirit of love for God, self and neighbour (all Good Creation) is The Spirit we want to grow in - such leaves intuition for dead, for His Spirit is a Spirit of wisdom, understanding, insight and power - setting us free from all our sins and bringing us peace.

To receive The Holy Spirit we need to be baptised by fire - which means we die to our unfaithful spirit within (Satan's brood) and come to life in The New - Calling God Almighty affectionately Abba from then on.

1 Cor 2

When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him" but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This is wonderful stuff, and most definitely ON topic.

Thank you...what topic was that?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yes I understand intuition to be closely linked to Elijah spirituality - eating wild honey and locust - preaching about the coming Messiah - in our faith life. (Jews/righteous)

However The Spirit of our Lord is what we truly want - for He gives us a sound mind and a pure heart - opening the door for Heavenly gifts to come down from God into our hearts.

So God's LOVING TRUTH - Jesus' Spirit/Seed within us - that is The Truth of God, read, understood and practises in The S(s)pirit of love for God, self and neighbour (all Good Creation) is The Spirit we want to grow in - such leaves intuition for dead, for His Spirit is a Spirit of wisdom, understanding, insight and power - setting us free from all our sins and bringing us peace.

To receive The Holy Spirit we need to be baptised by fire - which means we die to our unfaithful spirit within (Satan's brood) and come to life in The New - Calling God Almighty affectionately Abba from then on.

You quoted from it but didn't read that IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Wisdom is the HOLY SPIRIT in all it's forms

Originally Posted by maid in His image

The word for that Wisdom is phronēsis. It means mental action/activity


(which is what I meant by intuition since intuition isn't a word in the bible)


Strong's Number G5428
Greek φρόνησις

It's found only once or twice in the NT

Luk 1:17
"He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,'
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just,
to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Eph 1:8
which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,


Eph 1:8 is suspect because it doesn't appear in my book form of Strongs concordence
as such but online it is listed in Stronges.
Just the one rendering of Lk 1:17 does appear in the book I have.

All the other meanings for wisdom are the Greek Sophia #467
​

If you read the thread closer you will see that.

My definition of intuition is knowledge to act w/o motive
(a higher form of instinct that comes instantly from God.
Use it or lose it)

But the official meaning is

Definition of INTUITION
1
: quick and ready insight
2
a : immediate apprehension or cognition
b : knowledge or conviction gained by intuition
c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or
cognition without evident rational thought and inference


Examples of INTUITION
Intuition was telling her that something was very wrong.
“How did you know I would drop by?”
“Oh, I don't know. It must have been intuition.”

Origin of INTUITION
Middle English intuycyon, from Late Latin intuition-,
intuitio act of contemplating,
from Latin intuēri to look at, contemplate, from in- + tuēri to look at
First Known Use: 15th century

(iow=old school)


**************************
edit

phronēsis = God with us, leading in the Holy Spirit (which is Sophia)
thru our human spirit connected in obedience, with no human motive.
Those are actions that promote His economy in the world.
In this He uses whosoever He wills.

An aquired knowledge that lacks self motive and desires that results in
action that are given at the last moment from the Holy Spirit.
A higher form of instinct that the human mind and spirit can usually over ride
by placing self motive and desires in to bring it to the level of humanistic actions.
God's will is what is carried out when phronēsis is in play.


Contemplation of the higher faculties are always ready to act on command whereas
humanism won't because of self-interest placed before the Holy Spirit.

Please don't quote whole chapters of the bible.
A scripture is enough .

 

[Jeshu]

You quoted from it but didn't read that IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Wisdom is the HOLY SPIRIT in all it's forms



If you read the thread closer you will see that.


Please don't quote whole chapters of the bible.
A scripture is enough .

It is very true what you say - I was more looking at the different powers revealed in us as we progress in our Walk with Jesus. And Elijah comes around while the blood is still pouring in those faithful ones, preaching repentance of sins through baptism and looking forward to the One who does this with fire!

I see these 3 stages of God's Spirit growing within the believer.


1)Our faith at first is The Holy Spirit through water. (When we first believe and repent of our sin)


2)Then we experience the blood - which is sufferings. (Which is Satan, our own ego and the World attacking us in our faith.)

3)Then we are baptised with His fire - His Spirit in full charge of our once sinful and weak heart - (Which is the first resurrection. When what died in us because of our struggle for Christ in our past life is raised with in Christ and rules with Him.)


Peace

1 John 5:6-12

This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

 

[razeontherock]

Thank you...what topic was that?

I was commenting that your exposition on intuition (as well as other workings of the mind) is 100% on the topic of your OP, and the poll. A poster had challenged that notion.

It's one thing to assign blame, but an entirely different matter to actually see the way G-d designed these things to work. I see our Lord reaching out to us throughout all of the Scripture, trying to "break through."

For example what He told Cain: when you don't do well, sin lays in wait for you to take you by stealth, but you must rule over it.

Sure that's a paraphrase, and ties in directly w/ NT depiction of a roaring lion seeking "whom he may devour."

We really need the weapons of our warfare, and recognizing G-d's voice / promptings / leading IN US is paramount! Trying to assign these elements of the mind under discussion here to our Ephesians 6 armor, I see all this as "having our loins girt about with Truth." Since that's first, I'd say it's rather critical - and our enemy knows it.

And this is squarely our responsibility, while the Lord doesn't respect the blame game, nor is He fooled by it. An excellent topic, especially for today.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I was commenting that your exposition on intuition (as well as other workings of the mind) is 100% on the topic of your OP, and the poll. A poster had challenged that notion.

It's one thing to assign blame, but an entirely different matter to actually see the way G-d designed these things to work. I see our Lord reaching out to us throughout all of the Scripture, trying to "break through."

For example what He told Cain: when you don't do well, sin lays in wait for you to take you by stealth, but you must rule over it.

Sure that's a paraphrase, and ties in directly w/ NT depiction of a roaring lion seeking "whom he may devour."

We really need the weapons of our warfare, and recognizing G-d's voice / promptings / leading IN US is paramount! Trying to assign these elements of the mind under discussion here to our Ephesians 6 armor, I see all this as "having our loins girt about with Truth." Since that's first, I'd say it's rather critical - and our enemy knows it.

And this is squarely our responsibility, while the Lord doesn't respect the blame game, nor is He fooled by it. An excellent topic, especially for today.

The Holy Spirit's function is to breath life into the human spirit bringing it to life.
Wisdom as the Greek Sophia (grace) does that with Grace as the means.
Grace gives life in all it's aspects. Grace is the eternal life that will never die.
That's why she is called the New Jerusalem in Galaltions 4 (represented by Sarah).
The human spirit lives on in her. That is the form of culture that propels people to better their lives and others.
It's the grace of God in religion that is nuturing, not demanding.
And it's the politics of a fair gvmnt.
　
Phonesis (as intuition according to the definition I used a few posts back) is Truth.
It's the part of the armour that is God, along with the sword, that is the Word of God.

Salvation/righteousness/gospel/faith are aspects of God but not God Himself.
Whereas truth and Word are. Those two aspects of the armour. belt and sword, represent God.

That's why I say that the part of wisdom that is phonesis is that part that God moves solely for His purposes.
They lack any other motive so aren't part of the grace that is helpful to people's advancement.
That is the fullness of the Spirit in mankind.
The Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness was Sophia,
the Spirit that He was full of when He came out was Phonesis.

It's the wisdom of the righteous according to Luke 1:17.

The righteousness of the armour is the breastplate and it protects the heart.
It's His righteuosness, not ours. Wisdom (Sophia) is the mind on exalting humanity to new heights.
Wisdom (phonesis) is the mind of Christ. Both are inacted in the human spirit.
The mind in accordance to the armour is where salvation comes from.
That is the Lord's salvation that He gives to whom He will. He gives that to those who will abide in Him
because abiding in Him is according to His truth.
Worldly truth is the whole range of philosophy.
Pilate says "What is truth" instead of Who is truth.



edit:
'intuition' wasn't in use as a word until the 15th century, so best to not use that word
phonesis is the biblical word.
Sophia= grace
Phonesis = mind of Christ

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

It is very true what you say - I was more looking at the different powers revealed in us as we progress in our Walk with Jesus. And Elijah comes around while the blood is still pouring in those faithful ones, preaching repentance of sins through baptism and looking forward to the One who does this with fire!

I see these 3 stages of God's Spirit growing within the believer.


1)Our faith at first is The Holy Spirit through water. (When we first believe and repent of our sin)


2)Then we experience the blood - which is sufferings. (Which is Satan, our own ego and the World attacking us in our faith.)

3)Then we are baptised with His fire - His Spirit in full charge of our once sinful and weak heart - (Which is the first resurrection. When what died in us because of our struggle for Christ in our past life is raised with in Christ and rules with Him.)


Peace

The middle aspect is the human wilderness experience seen most clearly in the experiences of David.
I see David's covenent with Jonathan as christianity has been for the last 2000 yrs.
Saul as catholicism, David representing Protestants.
The overtaking of Jerusalem was defered by God by saying that He will build the House.
Jerusalem worldly is no more. The New Jerusalem still stands.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The Holy Spirit's function is to breath life into the human spirit bringing it to life.
Wisdom as the Greek Sophia (grace) does that with Grace as the means.
Grace gives life in all it's aspects. Grace is the eternal life that will never die.
That's why she is called the New Jerusalem in Galaltions 4 (represented by Sarah).
The human spirit lives on in her. That is the form of culture that propels people to better their lives and others.
It's the grace of God in religion that is nuturing, not demanding.
And it's the politics of a fair gvmnt.
　
Phronesis (as intuition according to the definition I used a few posts back) is Truth.
It's the part of the armour that is God, along with the sword, that is the Word of God.

Salvation/righteousness/gospel/faith are aspects of God but not God Himself.
Whereas truth and Word are. Those two aspects of the armour. belt and sword, represent God.

That's why I say that the part of wisdom that is phonesis is that part that God moves solely for His purposes.
They lack any other motive so aren't part of the grace that is helpful to people's advancement.
That is the fullness of the Spirit in mankind.
The Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness was Sophia,
the Spirit that He was full of when He came out was Phronesis.

It's the wisdom of the righteous according to Luke 1:17.

The righteousness of the armour is the breastplate and it protects the heart.
It's His righteuosness, not ours. Wisdom (Sophia) is the mind on exalting humanity to new heights.
Wisdom (phronesis) is the mind of Christ. Both are inacted in the human spirit.
The mind in accordance to the armour is where salvation comes from.
That is the Lord's salvation that He gives to whom He will. He gives that to those who will abide in Him
because abiding in Him is according to His truth.
Worldly truth is the whole range of philosophy.
Pilate says "What is truth" instead of Who is truth.



edit:
'intuition' wasn't in use as a word until the 15th century, so best to not use that word
phronesis is the biblical word.
Sophia= grace
Phronesis = mind of Christ

I was just talking to someone who attended church classes about 'Sophia'
and this was very enlightening to her
She wasn't aware of the Phronesis factor

She said she thought it might be the gnostic thought,
but I said not when termed with Jesus (as Logos) as truth.
Makes sence to me
In fact thats what John's letters were trying to differentiate from.

Jesus embodies both but only worked from Phronesis (God's will in action)
during His mission on earth.
Our example to follow is the mind of Christ (Phronesis)
by bringing things to the throne of grace (Sophia in the Godhead)
So that there is mediation between God and mankind. True Wisdom results.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

OT term for Greek Phronesis is Hebrew Tsaddik or Zaddik
Stronge Concordence # 6663 in the Hebrew. ~Righteous~

ie:
Prov 10:25
As the whirlwind passes, so the wicked (rasha) are no more;
but the rightous (tsaddik) is an everlasting foundation.

(Built on rock, not sand)

From this is seen the righteous priesthood of the millenium
called the Zadok priests in Ezekial.

Psalm 1 is a general outline of righteousness.(Psalm 15 also)

1) Happy is the person who doesn't follow wicked guidance
nor walks the roads that sinners tread
nor sits in the company of mockers
2) but rather finds joy in the Eternal's laws
pouring over it day and night
3) And so becomes firm as a tree planted by rivers of water,
the fruit shall not fall untimely,
and whose leaves never fade,
whatsoever it bears comes to fruitation.
4) Not so the lawless
they are chaff scattered by the wind
5) When judgement comes, the ungodly will not stand
sinners will have no part in the reunion of the just
6) The Eternal cares for the Way of the righteous
but the ways of the wicked vanish forever.

Solomon's 'wise and understanding heart' was Sophia wisdom
able to see between rasha and tsaddik as proofed by the split baby.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Just to scrape this into one message that I feel
completes it for me is:
　
Bracketed by Joseph's message of Sophiac Wisdom's human care
comes Phronesis Wisdom's message of God's move thru Tamar.
　
Where the Princely family of crippled and blind Israel
were in the process of selling themselves into slavery
by their own actions,
God was moving past son after son to bring Himself to the point
of eventually spilling the seed of Himself into the earth
that out of death might come life.
　
Where Sarah represents grace in human life,
Tamar represents truth of God's actions.
See Gen 28
　
What is also seen is the northern Kingdom under Ephraim
separation from the southern tribe of Judah
symbolically and Phronesically in Ezek 16:52
　
Ezekiel 16:52 (Darby Translation)
52Thou also, who hast judged thy sisters,
bear thine own confusion, because of thy sins
in which thou hast acted more abominably than they:
they are more righteous than thou.
So be thou ashamed also, and bear thy confusion,
in that thou hast justified (Tsaddiked) thy sisters.
　
It seems the righteous Tamar had overstepped Sophia Godhead's bounds.
　
Be careful where you think you stand, lest you fall.