The Blame Game~ Poll

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Who will be responsible for men's thoughts toward provocably dressed women. Will the men be held accountable or will the women?

Please explain your answer

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I voted both because neither are giving thought to God. Jesus said that even a thoughts are going to be accounted for, so fantasies would be big on the list. Women who give no thought to respecting the body of the temple I think will also be held accountable

 

[Jeshu]

I voted both because neither are giving thought to God. Jesus said that even a thoughts are going to be accounted for, so fantasies would be big on the list. Women who give no thought to respecting the body of the temple I think will also be held accountable

We are all accountable to God - for everything we ever done! That's why we need Jesus so badly!!!



Hebrews 4:12-13

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

We are all accountable to God - for everything we ever done! That's why we need Jesus so badly!!!



Hebrews 4:12-13

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Perfect scripture, thank you

 

[bessiewng]

oh, I seem to be the only one who votes for "men" only, because it was his thoughts.

I can't judge those women according to their outward appearance, because I don't know what is inside.

 

[Jeshu]

oh, I seem to be the only one who votes for "men" only, because it was his thoughts.

I can't judge those women according to their outward appearance, because I don't know what is inside.

Good point - even stronger WE may NOT judge - either!

However we know from the Bible that inside of us is both Black and White - Good and Bad - so The Giving Account part will still be valid - otherwise The Word wouldn't say so - or not?

 

[bessiewng]

Women who give no thought to respecting the body of the temple I think will also be held accountable

I don't think all women understand so much about body is the temple of God.

If they don't know, then it is not sin?

 

[Jeshu]

I don't think all women understand so much about body is the temple of God.

If they don't know, then it is not sin?

Yes The Word understands this as well.

Rom 2:12-16

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[T Man]

Both are, however this is very open. If they do it knowing, yes both are, if they are doing it not knowing, then only Yeshua can say.

Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, (2) for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. (3) Why, then, do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log in your own eye? (4) How dare you say to your brother, 'Please, let me take that speck out of your eye,' when you have a log in your own eye? (5) You hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


Also

Matthew 18:6-7 "If anyone should cause one of these little ones to lose his faith in me, it would be better for that person to have a large millstone tied around his neck and be drowned in the deep sea. (7) How terrible for the world that there are things that make people lose their faith! Such things will always happen---but how terrible for the one who causes them!
(Please Note: Many think this scripture is directed at the kiddies, but in Spiritual truth, we even if 80 years old are His kids and it means anyone that draws us from Him and makes us stumble in Him.)

 

[Jeshu]

Both are, however this is very open. If they do it knowing, yes both are, if they are doing it not knowing, then only Yeshua can say.

Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, (2) for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. (3) Why, then, do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log in your own eye? (4) How dare you say to your brother, 'Please, let me take that speck out of your eye,' when you have a log in your own eye? (5) You hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


Also

Matthew 18:6-7 "If anyone should cause one of these little ones to lose his faith in me, it would be better for that person to have a large millstone tied around his neck and be drowned in the deep sea. (7) How terrible for the world that there are things that make people lose their faith! Such things will always happen---but how terrible for the one who causes them!
(Please Note: Many think this scripture is directed at the kiddies, but in Spiritual truth, we even if 80 years old are His kids and it means anyone that draws us from Him and makes us stumble in Him.)

We best of understanding that in sin all is tainted - even our best prayers fall far short Paul teaches.

Yet Jesus SAVES ALL and this is of benefit particular benefit for those who love The Loving Truth of The Bible - Jesus Christ.

All those in sin perish - I did - good riddance why try and save your life when you know you will loose it that way?

Better to loose your life so Jesus can live in place - GOD'S LOVING TRUTH - He is far better than us IN selfishness listening to lies bringing death and misery everywhere.


All praise to Jesus for saving us from our sinful life - and casting to death!

 

[stormdancer0]

I can't believe that a 20 yr old woman can put on a spaghetti-strap skin-tight shirt and shorts that let half her butt cheeks hang out, and go out not realizing that she's inciting lustful thoughts in men. In this instance, the women will be held accountable for the lust their immodest dress causes in men. Ignorance in this case is a ridiculous argument. I see it all the time. A lot of women want those looks. Their self-esteem is so low, that this is the only way they feel worth anything.

If they would only stop working on self esteem, and think about how GOD esteems them. Man's esteem is nothing in comparison.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Honestly, I don't believe that the cliches being used to describe religious dissenters are describing christains. They are describing men and women who are not christians. They are the wannabees that are in church for reasons other than Christ. Women who are there provoking men to lust and those who are lusting after them are satan's counterfiets that are there only to steal and rob from true christianity and have no place in the house of the Lord. Probably the main reason I don't go to church because it's just another form of the hypocracy of the Pharisees aptly demonstrated.

YouTube - tim buckley - pleasant street (The Christian Licorice Store)

 

[Jeshu]

Honestly, I don't believe that the cliches being used to describe religious dissenters are describing christains. They are describing men and women who are not christians. They are the wannabees that are in church for reasons other than Christ. Women who are there provoking men to lust and those who are lusting after them are satan's counterfiets that are there only to steal and rob from true christianity and have no place in the house of the Lord. Probably the main reason I don't go to church because it's just another form of the hypocracy of the Pharisees aptly demonstrated.

A bit harsh here I think maiden!

They are not free and haven't understood the truth for people are not living the truth -to show them how to do it.


Jesus saves - why condemn once more - can we look into the hearts of people and know why they do what they do? Can we judge such things? That was the Jewish problem wasn't - The Righteous thinking they alone Knew The Truth - well Jesus showed them didn't He dying for them asking God to forgive them their crimes even - though in utter agony! Let us at least try and walk that way.


This was my conclusion on the matter.


Peaceful considerations, forgiving love and mercy work best!






Twice Blinded

What destroyer, where would he be?
The deadly snake bite I didn't see!
Still part of myself was dragged away,
held captive there by wicked sway,
all the lies sown in my soul,
day by day taking control,
feeding my life lies and misery,
my good times became history.

Bringing thoughts and feelings around,
which are in no way sound,
rather inner kings cruel and strong,
those worldly ways so very wrong,
raising Babylon in all her might,
holding me captive in my fright,
denying grace to rule my ways,
mocking God in His face.

Horse hooves trampling my soul,
grass-hoppers devouring all,
scorpion stings stinging,
famine upon famine bringing,
brimstone burn everything to ash,
massive hailstones me to smash,
the darkness ever growing close,
for the goats got me by the nose.

So working for another's bread,
God's loving truth I forget,
thinking my world would always stink,
driving my good life to the brink,
yet there at the bottom of my might,
I finally began to see the light..,
..Jesus, whom I bring so much grief,
when I have that liar as my chief!

And so The Truth did shine on me!
His Spirit alive in my heart to see!
Oh what blinding light I saw there?
God's goodness displayed everywhere!
His love washing me white as snow!
His loving truth inside my life to flow!
Oh Lamb of God forever to be praised!
For from the dead I have been raised!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Judging one another in the house of the Lord OR judging unbeleivers? We're not to judge unbeleivers, so I stand corrected.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Actually....Jesus never took it upon Himself to execute Rabbinal law or the law of Moses.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7474937-2/#post55234298

 

[GordonUSC]

I voted for both. Jesus made it clear that sin is in the heart and that thinking lustfully towards a women is adultery, so men are clearly not off the hook here. That being said, I am also pretty sure that women who dress provocatively in order to attract the attention of men will be held accountable as well. As has been stated, we are held accountable for causing others to sin. Though I do believe that women who dress that way often do not fully understand the significance and consequence of their actions on men and the difficulty this causes many men (they are just wired differently).

I attended an evangelical college in New England and when ever the temp went above 75 degrees and it stopped snowing the women would be out sunbathing on the quad and this argument would present itself once more. My friends and I would complain to each other about the immodesty of the women and then end up saying that despite our struggle we sure did love summer. The women on campus couldn't seen to understand our struggle and kept saying that they only wear what they wear because they think its "cute". My response was that they probably wouldn't think it was so nifty if it didn't provide the reactions from the men that they were looking for, which they either denied, or explained that male attention is important for women and it is valid for them to seek it out. They just would not seem to acknowledge the invidious power the female body has on men and their hormones (or perhaps they did understand it and liked manipulating it). I ended up writing a statement on the public debate board asking women for their help in our struggle to not sin in our hearts and minds. Many of the responses from both men and women were along the lines of it being our burden and responsibility and we shouldn't require them to limit their freedom of expression because we have an issue. I believed then and believe now that Paul is correct in counseling us to temper the liberties we have in Christ (such as eating meat sacrificed to idols) in order to make "every effort to do what leads to peace and mutual edification (Romans 14:19), and I wish I could get more women to at least make it a bit easier on me (and men in general) to resist an incredibly powerful temptation.

Anyway, speaking as a happily married man who continues to work on a college campus, this issue is one that is significant to me.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think ya'll would have less problems at a nudist colony ttytt. Its the imagination, that is not of the Spirit, that needs controlling in both male and female imo. The imagiation dulls intuition that is the main conductor of the messages of the Holy Spirit along with conscience and one other thing that I can't think of right now.

 

[razeontherock]

Imagination, conscience and _____ are the main conductors of the message. This is an interesting thought, in an interesting thread! I've never really considered the question posed in the poll, but the next time I face such temptation I'm sure to think of "provacably" and giggle

So thank you for that.

I would never pass blame for my own inner struggles onto someone else, but as the LORD sees both the thoughts and the intents of the heart, others may incur Judgment upon themselves in the process as well. Good point, and I'm glad some women here are sensitive to His good pleasure on this topic.

It's my understanding that Muslim teaching on this refers to men as a cat, unable to refrain from eating meat if it's left out, and that the blame is not on the cat at all but on whoever left out the meat. I think that's taking things terribly too far!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Raze, I've accused you of altering my words and here your doing that again. Do you have a reading problem or A.D.D. or something? I said the imagination is not from the Spirit, intuition is. The imagination deals with fantasies that just get people in trouble with the Lord because they are actions carried out in the mind. The intuition is a pure conduit of the Holy Spirit in the same sence that instinct is for animals. Intuition is used by the Holy Spirit. The conscience is used by the Holy Spirit (read my siggy) and the will is used by the Holy Spirit because as long as a person is not willing to follow the Holy Spirit then the conscience is seared and intuition succumbs to imagination.

Please don't respond to things with a false reading If you start from a false premise you'll never get it straight.

 

[razeontherock]

What would possibly make you think I've altered your words? Your words are yours, my words are mine. I fail to see the point where my words become yours, as you seem to suggest.