• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

The Big Lie

Discussion in 'Daily Devotionals' started by Christsfreeservant, May 28, 2019.

  1. Christsfreeservant

    Christsfreeservant Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,708
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Your argument is with scripture, not with me. I am just teaching what the scriptures teach. I agree that we can do nothing to earn or to deserve our own salvation. Not one of us can even come to faith in Jesus Christ unless the Father first draws us to Christ. Even the faith to believe in Jesus is a gift from God. And, the empowerment to live holy and godly lives also comes only from God and not from ourselves. We can only be made righteous by the blood the Lamb (Jesus Christ) shed on a cross for our sins.

    But, the scriptures are real clear on this subject of our salvation. And, the scriptures teach that the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit, for if we walk according to the flesh, we will die in our sins. But, if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh, we will have eternal life with God (See: Romans 8:1-17; Luke 9:23-25; 1 Jn. 1:5-9).

    There are so many scriptures which teach that we must live by the Spirit and not by our flesh, and we must continue in our faith, steadfast and firm to the end if we want to have eternal life with God. And, then there is the scripture which says we are going to reap what we sow. If we sow to please the flesh, from the flesh we are going to reap destruction (another word for decay, death). But, if we sow to please the Spirit, then we have eternal life with God (Gal. 6:7-8; cf. Gal. 5:19-21).

    I gave lots of scripture references in the O.P. which teach the same as what I just stated. Have you read them all, prayerfully, carefully, asking the Lord to show you what they mean? They say that our walk of faith, in the Spirit of God, determines whether or not we have eternal life with God. They say that those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God, and that those who are walking in obedience to the Lord are the children of God, and that God lives in them.

    Too many people professing faith in Jesus Christ who believe they are going to end up in heaven one day, but they never died with Christ to sin, and they aren't living with him to righteousness, either, because they have been convinced they don't have to, and that all they have to do is say some words after someone and they are in, good to go, and that heaven is guaranteed them no matter how they live their lives from that moment on.

    But, scripture after scripture all throughout the New Testament dispels that theory, and in fact a lot of scriptures are very pointed at warning the church on these matters. And, even one tells those who think God won't do anything about their living in disobedience that if he cut off the Jews, then he can cut them off, too, so they shouldn't be arrogant (see Romans 11).

    There are going to be a lot of people standing before God one day who are going to be told "Depart from me, I never knew you," because they bought into a cheap grace gospel which told them that they didn't have to repent of their sins or obey Jesus, and that they don't have to submit to the Lordship of Christ but that they can still go to heaven. Yet, all throughout the NT the church, Christians, are warned against that type of thinking, and they are given the example of the Jews in the wilderness who did not enter the promised land because of their unbelief and their disobedience. And, so the Christians are then warned to not follow their example and for them not to harden their hearts against God.

    So, I recommend reading through the New Testament one book, one chapter and one verse at a time, prayerfully, carefully, respectfully, asking God to open your heart to the truth, all of it, in context. For, many people are claiming the promises of God that are not theirs to claim. Like for example, so many people quote those verses in John 10 about not being snatched out of God's hands, but they always leave out the verse right before that that says "who" can't be snatched out of God's hands. And, the "who" is the Lord's sheep who listen to him and who follow (obey) him.
     
  2. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    Unfortunately you are not teaching what the scriptures teach, you are twisting them. You making all these passages about your work and not about His work. Do you not recall the passage that states many will come in my name saying look at the things we did?

    Yes we either walk by the flesh or by the spirit however that does not affect salvation, its a choice. So God is going to punish you for everything you ever did? So its a smack up the head before heaven? You do realize that you are forgiven for past, present and future sins too? Its once for all, like Hebrew says, we are perfected FOR ALL TIME. Do you know who Abba Father is? Your salvation is not determined by your obedience ability. If it was, you are in BIG trouble my friend. That is old covenant, there is a new way. You sin like everyone else out there, just like me. Yes we will reap what we sow, there are earthly consequences for what we do. You speed, you get a ticket but God is not hurling disaster at us, He is the God of all comfort.

    So for example, you stole from work so God is punishing you when they fire you and then come up beside you and says " its ok now my son, everything will be ok", that makes no sense. Hebrews says that the promise of salvation was made by two unchangeable things, God and God, so you werent even in the equation.

    Youre right, Jesus will say get away from me I NEVER knew you, not I once knew you and you screwed it up or sinned too much so now you're going to hell.

    Your Romans 11 reference is off base, I have read it, take a look at verse 6. Anyways you might be interested what BC Senior has been writing in here, looks like you guys might have a lot in common. He really likes this works based theology and trying to scare people into the kingdom.

    Your online name speaks volumes, we are not Christs free servant, we are children of the on High God. Heirs to the promise. Servants (hired help) don't get what the children do.

    Religion tells you to get busy, Jesus tells us to TRUST in Him, nothing more. You might be relaxing with God a lot more if you did. I wish you the best. I appreciate the advisement to read the Bible, I have, I see what it says but because we dont agree doesnt mean I havent read it or understood it. See the whole new covenant the Christ brought in is grace, it begins with grace and ends with grace. The is no partial grace for just salvation, its grace for daily living too.

    Last of all, I want to say I appreciate you, thank you for giving me the chance to speak about Gods love, grace and mercy, and for that I am grateful.
     
  3. Christsfreeservant

    Christsfreeservant Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,708
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Here are the scriptures, well some of them. They speak for themselves.

    Luke 9:23-25: “And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?”

    John 8:31-32: So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

    John 14:23-24: “Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.”

    John 15:1-11: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full."

    Gal. 5:19-21: “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” *

    Galatians 6:7-8: “Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.”

    Eph. 2:10: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

    Ephesians 4:17-24: “Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ! — assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”

    Eph. 5:3-6: But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

    Col. 1:21-23: And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”

    Titus 2:11-14: “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.”

    1 Pet. 1:13-16: Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

    1 Pet. 2:9-10: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.”

    1 Pet. 2:24-25: “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.”

    Rom. 6:15-16: What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

    Ro. 8:3-14: “For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    “You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

    So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”

    Rom. 11:17-24: "But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree."

    1 Co. 15:2: “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

    Hebrews 3:6, 14-15: “… And we are his house, IF we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. As has just been said:
    “Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion.”

    1 Jn. 1:5-9: “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    1 John 2:3-6: “By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”

    I John 2:24-25: “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

    1 John 3:24: “Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.”

    1 John 5:3: “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome…”

    2 John 1:6: “And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.”
     
  4. Christsfreeservant

    Christsfreeservant Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,708
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes, I am the Lord's Servant (see examples below), and I am free, because Jesus set me free from my slavery (bondage, addiction) to sin so that I could walk in freedom from slavery to sin and in his righteousness all in his power, working, and strength within me as I yield to his Lordship over my life.

    Acts 3:13: "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him."

    Acts 4:29-30: "And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

    Acts 26:16: "But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you."

    Rom. 1:1: "Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God."

    1 Co. 3:5: "What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each."

    1 Co. 4:1: "This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God."

    2 Co. 6:4: "but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities..."

    Gal. 1:10: "For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ."

    Phil. 1:1: "Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons..."

    Phil. 2:6-8 (speaking of Jesus): "who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

    Col. 4:12: "Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ Jesus, greets you, always struggling on your behalf in his prayers, that you may stand mature and fully assured in all the will of God."

    Tit. 1:1: "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness..."

    1 Pet. 2:16: "Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God."

    2 Pet. 1:1: "Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."

    Jude 1:1: "Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ..."

    Rev. 1:1: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John..."

    Rev. 2:20: "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

    Rev. 6:11: "Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

    Rev. 7:3: saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

    Rev. 11:18: "The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

    Rom. 6:16-23: "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
     
  5. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed

    By the number of passages you have quoted, you took this more personally than I intended it, if I offended you, I apologize. It was not a personal shot at you. However you did miss Acts 17:25.

    You are correct, the disciples were servants because Jesus personally called them, I would never compare my walk with the Lord to theirs.
     
  6. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed

    Right, we have the Holy Spirit in us and we are doing ALL of these things, I appreciate the page long quote, that must have taken some time to write.
     
  7. Christsfreeservant

    Christsfreeservant Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,708
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    This is not about me. This is about truth. And, the truth is we are referred to in the NT both as servants of God/of Christ, and as children of God, if we truly are his, by faith in him. This is all of us who are true followers of Jesus Christ, not just the apostles. We are slaves of God and slaves of righteousness. We, the saints of God, are the Lord's servants. We are even commanded to live as servants of God. For, Jesus is our Lord and master, who bought us back for God with a price so that we would now become God's possession, that he would have ownership over our lives. And, so we serve him, which is what we are all called to do. And, Jesus set the example for us.
     
  8. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    You say its about truth, who is the truth? Jesus. I will ask you again, how can you be a slave and a child of God? You cant. Its Abba Father. Jesus is Lord, yes, He is brother. Slaves of righteousness is a term, means you cant sin like you did before. I know you, if you're a believer, you cant. You're not a slave, you're a son, seated in heavenly places. You are God's possession, you're right, you are His son and He loves you. You are not a servant, you are a son. Understand, the standard is not trying your best, the standard is perfection and you cant do it, Jesus did. Its not Jesus plus your trying. The answer is Jesus, Jesus plus nothing.


    Love ya brother.

    Jason
     
  9. Christsfreeservant

    Christsfreeservant Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,708
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Jason, first off, I am a sister, not a brother. I am a 69 year old wife, mother, and grandmother to 14 wonderful children. And, again, I have given you the scriptures, so your argument is with scripture, not with me. I am concluding this conversation with you now.
     
  10. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    My apologies for the misunderstanding, no problems with the scriptures, only issue is with those who want to make it about their works, tell you how humble they are and how they love religion. Take care! :)
     
Loading...