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The Big Bang is nonsense, so why do I defend it?

Ophiolite

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Our reality is limited to our abilities to comprehend our own world--He is as high above us as we are to the ant.
And yet you presume to understand portions of his intent, while choosing not to recognise what we have been able to comprehend about our own world. Curiously, if you are correct, the intelligence and curiosity that enabled that comprehension were made possible by his creative act. The difficulty of conducting a religious discussion in this instance seems to revolve around your distorted theology.
 
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mmksparbud

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And yet you presume to understand portions of his intent, while choosing not to recognise what we have been able to comprehend about our own world. Curiously, if you are correct, the intelligence and curiosity that enabled that comprehension were made possible by his creative act. The difficulty of conducting a religious discussion in this instance seems to revolve around your distorted theology.

We can only understand what He has chosen to tell us through His word. We have only a vague understanding of our own world, we do not comprehend all of it, science is forever changing as new knowledge is gained. Everything is not known yet. Time alone will tell whose theology is distorted.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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It is really quite impossible to have a real discussion on religious matters with an atheist! It's like going in circles. The reality of an ant is far different from the reality of a human. The ant can not comprehend the world of the human, the stars, the sun, the oceans and so very much more that they simply can not fathom, they would consider it foolishness, not real. It is the same with us and God. Our reality is limited to our abilities to comprehend our own world--He is as high above us as we are to the ant.
So you claim - but by your own ant-human analogy, if a God existed, we would be unable to comprehend it or its world, and that applies to you too. That you claim this special knowledge contradicts your own analogy.

However, we can and do imagine all kinds of fictitious entities, including pantheons of powerful and fickle deities - and throughout recorded history, most groups claim only their deity is real, and pledge allegiance solely to it alone, declaring all others false. What a very human way of behaving... 'our group is the special one, we are the chosen ones' :rolleyes:
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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We can only understand what He has chosen to tell us through His word.
Problem is His 'word' was written and collated by fallible men with their own agendas, whose accounts varied, and which is interpreted and understood in almost as many ways as there are readers of it, and cherry-picked to suit the mores and proclivities of numerous different sects - and that is just one set of holy scriptures; each religion has its own examples, also with varied interpretations and sects, and similarly cherry-picked for appropriateness.

And still you express surprise at our scepticism!
 
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mmksparbud

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So you claim - but by your own ant-human analogy, if a God existed, we would be unable to comprehend it or its world, and that applies to you too. That you claim this special knowledge contradicts your own analogy.

However, we can and do imagine all kinds of fictitious entities, including pantheons of powerful and fickle deities - and throughout recorded history, most groups claim only their deity is real, and pledge allegiance solely to it alone, declaring all others false. What a very human way of behaving... 'our group is the special one, we are the chosen ones' :rolleyes:

You have the right to your position--as do I. As I said--we can only understand what He has told us of Him in His word. Yes--religion is very personal. I believe in a very real, very one on one God. It is not something that is provable--it is only something that can be experienced. You can talk about love all you want--you have to experience it to understand it.
 
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mmksparbud

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Problem is His 'word' was written and collated by fallible men with their own agendas, whose accounts varied, and which is interpreted and understood in almost as many ways as there are readers of it, and cherry-picked to suit the mores and proclivities of numerous different sects - and that is just one set of holy scriptures; each religion has its own examples, also with varied interpretations and sects, and similarly cherry-picked for appropriateness.

And still you express surprise at our scepticism!

No--you skepticism is no surprise. Very understandable. Again, I believe you can only understand it when you experience it yourself--I can't prove it to you. You have to ask Him in--He does not force Himself on you.
 
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DogmaHunter

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False, since Humans have the superior intelligence

And eagles have superior eye sight while cheetah's have superior running speeds.

None is the result of genetics that have no evolutionary history and ties to other species.

Looks like you have classified Humans as just another animal


I didn't do that. The evidence of reality did that.
Humans are primates, mammal, tetrapods, vertebrates,.... Animals. As in: the kingdom of animalia.

Be ashamed of your mis-classification

There is no shame in accepting the evidence of reality.
There is much shame in ignoring the evidence of reality.


Your view is the willingly ignorant genesis of Racism. Repent before it's too late.

uhu, uhu....

When all else fails, try insults and threats.
 
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Aman777

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I didn't do that. The evidence of reality did that.
Humans are primates, mammal, tetrapods, vertebrates,.... Animals. As in: the kingdom of animalia.

Not according to God but according to your Godless classification system, which falsely supposes that White people are more intelligent than others.

There is no shame in accepting the evidence of reality.
There is much shame in ignoring the evidence of reality.

Reality is that Humans are more intelligent than ANY other living creature and Godless Evolution cannot explain. Evolution is a THEORY, an ASSUMPTION of people who THINK they know more than God.

When all else fails, try insults and threats.

You mean, tell the Truth? On the origin of species" is: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". Racism, pure and simple, as I posted. Amen?
 
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DogmaHunter

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Not according to God

You mean... not according to a +2000 year old ancient story, written by humans claiming to be speaking for a god.

The evidence of reality, however, trumps any human claim - ancient or modern.

which falsely supposes that White people are more intelligent than others.


lol, wut!?

Reality is that Humans are more intelligent than ANY other living creature

Reality is that Cheetah's are faster then ANY other living creature.

and Godless Evolution cannot explain

Evolution theory can explain human intelligence (and cheetah speed) just fine.
Your ignorance about biology, is not an argument against it.


Evolution is a THEORY, an ASSUMPTION of people who THINK they know more than God.

Evolutions is a scientific theory, like any other scientific theory, with extreme explanatory power that explains all the facts and is contradicted by none.

You mean, tell the Truth? On the origin of species" is: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". Racism, pure and simple, as I posted. Amen?

Favoured, in the sense of "better equiped for survival". Not favoured in the sense of racism. That's just your ignorance talking again.
 
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Ophiolite

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Not according to God but according to your Godless classification system, which falsely supposes that White people are more intelligent than others.
If you intend to attack anything - theory, opinion, person - it makes sense to know someting about it. Attacking a strawman wastes the time of the reader and makes the writer appear ridiculous. The classification of homo sapiens makes no distinction between the so-called 'races'.

Reality is that Humans are more intelligent than ANY other living creature and Godless Evolution cannot explain.
Evolution has been quite successful at explaining the emergence of intelligence. Of course, some might dispute the value of intelligence, given that human intelligence has been sufficient to cause the extinction of many species, sufficient to recognise what we are doing, but not - so far - sufficient to prevent it. So, I wouldn't get too impressed by human intelligence. If God truly did make use stewards of the Earth, one would have to conclude he made a serious error.

. Evolution is a THEORY, an ASSUMPTION of people who THINK they know more than God.
I am sure the character of a scientific theory has been explained to you many times. Isn't it about time that you used your intelligence in order to accept that as a fact?

You mean, tell the Truth? On the origin of species" is: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". Racism, pure and simple, as I posted. Amen?
Such ignorance!. The "races" referred to in "Origin" are varieties and variants of species, not the 'race' of the racist. Darwin's family for at least three generations and Darwin himself were significant players in abolotionist movement. Describing Darwin as a racist is the logical equivalent of describing Hitler as a humanitarian.

Seriously, educate yourself on these issues, rather than publicly embarassing yourself by posting nonsense.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Not according to God but according to your Godless classification system, which falsely supposes that White people are more intelligent than others.
Lol, I doubt you were even alive when different "races" of Homo sapiens had different classifications. And those classifications were motivated by pre-existing racism; the racism wasn't a consequence of the classification system or an inherent part of it.


Reality is that Humans are more intelligent than ANY other living creature and Godless Evolution cannot explain.
Mostly in terms of problem solving. Chimpanzees and many bird species have way better memories.

Evolution is a THEORY, an ASSUMPTION of people who THINK they know more than God.
From my perspective, claiming to have more knowledge than something which doesn't demonstrably exist is a bit of a nonsensical claim. If an omniscient being does exist, then obviously claiming to know more than it is just making an overly arrogant and obviously incorrect claim. If it doesn't exist at all, then the claim amounts to "I know more than nothing", which I should hope is the case for the vast majority of people. It's as if I were to claim "I'm stronger than a smorgenburgen".


You mean, tell the Truth? On the origin of species" is: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". Racism, pure and simple, as I posted. Amen?
Races of cabbages, for example. In that time period, "race" as a term was often used interchangeably with "species" or just general variation. It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if Darwin was racist; after all, he lived in the 1800s. But the Origin of Species doesn't even talk about human races other than a comment amounting to "variations seen in humans likely arose via the same processes as the other organisms I brought up". Obviously not a direct quote, but you get the point.

The actual inherent conclusion one would get from evolution as a theory is that the variations in human populations are due to differences in what traits were beneficial in different environments. So, a person with dark skin fairs better in a sunny, hot environment than a pale person, and a pale person fairs better in an environment in which sunlight is limited than a person with dark skin.
 
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Aman777

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Favoured, in the sense of "better equiped for survival". Not favoured in the sense of racism. That's just your ignorance talking again.

Darwin was, after all, a man of his time, class and society. True, he was committed to a monogenic, rather than the prevailing polygenic, view of human origins, but he still divided humanity into distinct races according to differences in skin, eye or hair colour. He was also convinced that evolution was progressive, and that the white races—especially the Europeans—were evolutionarily more advanced than the black races, thus establishing race differences and a racial hierarchy.

Darwin, race and gender
 
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Aman777

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The actual inherent conclusion one would get from evolution as a theory is that the variations in human populations are due to differences in what traits were beneficial in different environments. So, a person with dark skin fairs better in a sunny, hot environment than a pale person, and a pale person fairs better in an environment in which sunlight is limited than a person with dark skin.

Not Humans (descendants of Adam) but instead, you are speaking of the sons of God (prehistoric people) who had been on planet Earth for millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived bringing Adam's descendants to this planet. History agrees. God's Truth is the Truth in every way.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Not Humans (descendants of Adam) but instead, you are speaking of the sons of God (prehistoric people) who had been on planet Earth for millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived bringing Adam's descendants to this planet. History agrees. God's Truth is the Truth in every way.
History disagrees with you on that. For one thing, we know that pale skin among our species came about over 10,000 years after the last Neanderthal and Denisovan died. Thus, hybridizing with them is not how our species attained all its color variations. Additionally, we continue to experience mutations in various aspects of our physiology, and genetic drift varies heavily from country to country.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Darwin was, after all, a man of his time, class and society. True, he was committed to a monogenic, rather than the prevailing polygenic, view of human origins, but he still divided humanity into distinct races according to differences in skin, eye or hair colour. He was also convinced that evolution was progressive, and that the white races—especially the Europeans—were evolutionarily more advanced than the black races, thus establishing race differences and a racial hierarchy.

Darwin, race and gender

Dude, if you are going to continue just repeating your nonsense and not listen to what people tell you, you are just going to miss the fact that you're wrong.

Evolution is about objective chances of survival.
It has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

Try to be a little mature about it.
 
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Ophiolite

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It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if Darwin was racist; after all, he lived in the 1800s.
Way off the mark. As I noted in my prior post: "Darwin's family for at least three generations and Darwin himself were significant players in abolotionist movement. Describing Darwin as a racist is the logical equivalent of describing Hitler as a humanitarian!"
For a comprehensive dismissal of the notion he was racist I recommend a reading of Darwin's Sacred Cause by Adrian Desmond and James Moore. This deeply researched work is thoroughly convincing.
 
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