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Did the universe prior to that have a "beginning" as we might understand it? I do not claim to know. Do you?
Would cause-and-effect as we observe it within the universe currently apply to the conditions, at the quantum level, that existed prior to the expansion/inflation of the cosmos? Experts in that field say no. Do you know different?
In your opinion.-Cause=God, Effect=Universe
When all else fails, preach.-God is mine and your creator. God created everything you see, everything you will see. God is someone you will meet one day if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior. God is someone that you can get to know through faith and reading the Holy Bible.
-God made the universe by speaking it in to existence.
-God is mine and your creator. God created everything you see, everything you will see. God is someone you will meet one day if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior. God is someone that you can get to know through faith and reading the Holy Bible.
-God made the universe by speaking it in to existence.
In your opinion.
If there was a cause required, why would it need to be a deity?
If I may..
I would posit that there is a dualistic paradigm intrinsic to our reality...
coupled with morality and how without an objective source, it seemingly cannot exist...
...leading to a perpetual downward spiral of our eithics and the positive reinforcement they can provide, so long as we have an objective source.
As an intellect, my mind, which is rather abstract in its imaginative ability, still cant reconcile the formation of life on earth by mechanical processes alone, not with the insurmountable odds it would face to pull off such a feat..
Ive been through the scientific and philosophical route, I can argue both positions for and against God, but I feel the evidence is in Gods favor from an intuitive aspect, as well as the evidence I believe we have for the events in the Bible. It parallels history flawlessly based on my research thus far.
I submit that a creator in fact exists on these premises alone.
What doies this mean when translated out of buzzwords?
I would argue against an objective morality. And don't trot out murder. it's easy to make things cut and dry when it's an extreme example. But if my daughter steals a lollypop, am I morally right or morally wrong for smacking her?
Actually, countries without a great deal of religion have some of the highest standards of living on the planet.
But evolution was not random.
Despite the fact that we have no evidence of the enslavement of the Israelites by the Egyptians or the plagues of Egypt except for the Bible?
Obviously, I disagree.
If you'll notice, you've given me a dogmatic description of what God is (including an odd promise/threat), and a very meatless answer to the how problem (putting it mildly).
Without either of these, I don't think you've actually proposed anything at all to me. What you say about "God" (a proposed entity you clearly don't understand very well) doesn't really give me any info on the universe and the relationship of the two.
So a new question:
Why do people feel the need to expound on ideas they clearly haven't the first clue about?
In your opinion.
If there was a cause required, why would it need to be a deity?
-You are right. It is a dogmatic description. It is undeniable that God exists. God is the answer to all the unanswered questions in this thread, and in the universe. God created the vast universe to show his power and to prove that nothing else is capable to create something so complex, and so great. This isn't a science class. If you want to use the tools man has gave you to better understand the universe then do some research or sit through a class. I believe that man has gave us many useful tools. The same tools can be used to show that there is an undeniable truth that nothing else other than God could have created the universe.
-Ask yourself, where did you come from? Your mother and father right? Track that all the way back to the very beginning. It makes sense that eventually the lineage leads to just two people. So where did those two people come from? Do you believe they just appeared? To deny God's existence is the stupidest thing, in my opinion, a man can do. You are afraid of something you don't know. You are afraid to have faith. And for that you should be scared. Because without God, you will perish forever in hell. But with God, you will live forever in Heaven and be without worry.
People tend to take that as a threat when you are talking to a disbeliever.
Id say that by showing them the contrast betwixt Gods love, and lucifers vanity and how it manifests in our lives would be a better route.
You also should consider that your average atheist is highly intellectual, essentially to a fault, in which subjective thinking often is mistaken for objective fact.
The atheist is essentially trying to reconcile a physical reality, against something they cant physically observe or even apply scientific philosophy to, but they are incorrect.
We as humans do in fact have the ability to perceive God, but those in sin, or who have rejected him are the furthest from God, and they dont even realize it.
The atheist can ask anything of God, and he will begin the work to flood them with understanding. They may have to be patient, but it does come eventually..
It also comes with exhibiting a little respect. Being cross with God in your demands doesnt come close to gaining his attention..
Be polite, ask God to make himself known to you that you may benefit from his Gift to us, ask that he custom tailor his approach to your particular intellectual understanding of this world..
I did, and what happened to me can only be explained by Gods Holy Spirit.
-Thank you for your reply. It is very difficult to witness to such die-hard atheist. My entire intention was to use a tool, the Big Bang, as a way to connect with them and lead them to the undeniable truth that there is a God and he is our creator. I wasn't trying to be cross, God reminds us time after time in the Bible that without faith we will perish. It is great that you have accepted Gods Holy Spirit! I will keep the people of this thread in my prayers.
If it is objective, then it should be demonstrable. Give it a try.If I may..
I would posit that there is a dualistic paradigm intrinsic to our reality, coupled with morality and how without an objective source, it seemingly cannot exist, leading to a perpetual downward spiral of our eithics and the positive reinforcement they can provide, so long as we have an objective source.
What are the odds for that? Show your data and math, or retract.As an intellect, my mind, which is rather abstract in its imaginative ability, still cant reconcile the formation of life on earth by mechanical processes alone, not with the insurmountable odds it would face to pull off such a feat..
From the balance of your post, I cannot be sure that you have "researched" past the end of your nose.Ive been through the scientific and philosophical route, I can argue both positions for and against God, but I feel the evidence is in Gods favor from an intuitive aspect, as well as the evidence I believe we have for the events in the Bible. It parallels history flawlessly based on my research thus far.
What creator?I submit that a creator in fact exists on these premises alone.
I do not know that a cause was required.-How could you question if there was a cause?
No, I can honestly say that I don't know.Do you honestly believe that everything just miraculously happened without any cause?
In your opinion.No, you are wrong.
In your opinion.The universe didn't just "happen". God is the cause.
I asked, why would it need to be a deity? I don't claim to know what is required to create a universe, or what options there would be, if any, or how much power it would take, if any. Perhaps it was something with the intelligence of a toaster oven, a multiverse mechanism that, every so often, pops out a universe, and you get what you get. Perhaps it was simpler than that.-Why would it not need to be a God?
If it is objective, then it should be demonstrable. Give it a try.
What are the odds for that? Show your data and math, or retract.
From the balance of your post, I cannot be sure that you have "researched" past the end of your nose.
What creator?
The argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy.My mind cant conceive of a number or formula to place the odds within acceptable scientific theory, and certainly not Occams Razor..
Your claim, you figure it out.We are talking about accretion forming the earth from a state where all matter was in the form of an atom before coalescence.. How many atoms are in the Universe?
So you were bluffing about knowing the odds.I wouldnt even know where to start without being able to recreate the event against the control.
Sure we do. We have reason, human wellness and empathy.Regarding Objective morality, there is no basis for morality within human beings without God.
I do not posit the existence of objective morality.This is an indefensible argument because you have no objective source of intrinsic morality without God.
On what do you base that assumption?The greatest atheists in the world collapse on this argument, I doubt you will propose anything different..
That is not proof. That would make you wrong about having proof.I can prove morality is in fact subjective without God.
You can too, just ask 5 people what the right thing to do in a tramatic situation is, they will give you inconclusive results.. I promise.
What I meant was, the big bang theory does not posit a creator.Regarding which Creator, we call him YHWH, or Yahweh.
Was that not the name of a Doctor Seuss book?He also gives his name as "I AM that I AM".
No, I am not.You are trying to reconcile Gods creation against his existence..
I don't discuss theism with fleas. Do you?Kinda like the flea not believing in the dog..
That is not a fact.Thats why science will never breach this reality without that pesky mathematical result we hate so much, which is in fact Gods fingerprint.
Infinity.
-You are right. It is a dogmatic description. It is undeniable that God exists. God is the answer to all the unanswered questions in this thread, and in the universe. God created the vast universe to show his power and to prove that nothing else is capable to create something so complex, and so great. This isn't a science class. If you want to use the tools man has gave you to better understand the universe then do some research or sit through a class. I believe that man has gave us many useful tools. The same tools can be used to show that there is an undeniable truth that nothing else other than God could have created the universe.
-Ask yourself, where did you come from? Your mother and father right? Track that all the way back to the very beginning. It makes sense that eventually the lineage leads to just two people. So where did those two people come from? Do you believe they just appeared? To deny God's existence is the stupidest thing, in my opinion, a man can do. You are afraid of something you don't know. You are afraid to have faith. And for that you should be scared. Because without God, you will perish forever in hell. But with God, you will live forever in Heaven and be without worry.
The atheist can ask anything of God, and he will begin the work to flood them with understanding. They may have to be patient, but it does come eventually..
What do you mean evolution isnt random? Evolution in terms of a genome becoming another genome doesn't exist.
Are you referring to adaptation?
Why would there be any artifacts of an enslaved people in Egypt from 3700 years ago?
The culture was Egyptian..
And he will, when you wake up after dying and in the love and warmth of God you realize YOU'RE BURNING IN HELL FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER!
(Pass the donation plate.)
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