The Big Bang (Hypothesis) vs. Creationism

[Davian]

Experts say the Big Bang implies the universe had a beginning, which implies a need for a cause outside of itself.

That two "implies" implies in a row, based on a scientific theory that you do not accept and experts that you do not agree with, but you want to use it for the basis of your "first cause" argument?

Are we clear on that?

 

[Davian]

I have no trouble seeing the forest through the trees.

The elephants are stampeding in Zimbabwe.

 

[mathetes123]

That two "implies" implies in a row, based on a scientific theory that you do not accept and experts that you do not agree with, but you want to use it for the basis of your "first cause" argument?

Are we clear on that?

Just pointing out that the Big Bang does not disprove creationism

 

[Davian]

Preacher: where did you come from?

Skeptic: Nothing

False dichotomy. The sceptic can simply reply "I don't know". He may say, "My parents", or "Canada" (or a country more appropriate to the scenario).

Are you going to use a lot of fallacies in this thread?

 

[Davian]

Just pointing out that the Big Bang does not disprove creationism

The big bang theory (no caps) is a system of ideas intended to explain the multitude of astronomical observations. Its intent (if it were to have "intent") would only be to have greater explanatory power than competing hypotheses.

"Creationism" is not a hypothesis. Scientifically, it is not disproven - it is of no significance.

Your "first cause" argument fails when your presuppositions are removed.

 

[mathetes123]

False dichotomy. The sceptic can simply reply "I don't know". He may say, "My parents", or "Canada" (or a country more appropriate to the scenario).

Are you going to use a lot of fallacies in this thread?

If a worldview cannot answer life's most basic questions, then what good is it?

How would you as an atheist answer these basic questions:

Why is there something rather than nothing?
How do you explain human nature?
What happens to a person at death?
How do you determine right and wrong?
How do you know that you know?

 

[Davian]

If a worldview cannot answer life's most basic questions, then what good is it?

It would depend on what you or I would consider "life's most basic questions".

I would find that a worldview that supplies untestable, unfalsifiable assertions as "answers" to be of little use.

How would you as an atheist answer these basic questions:

Why is there something rather than nothing?
How do you explain human nature?
What happens to a person at death?
How do you determine right and wrong?
How do you know that you know?

As an atheist, I would answer: I lack beliefs in deities, other than as characters in books.

 

[Kylie]

I believe that is up for debate! If it is so supported why are there so many discrepancies?

I;ve found that most of the time when science deniers claim there are discrepancies, it stems from them not being properly educated as to what science is and what it says. Also from listening to anti-science people like creationists.

A point in case is your claim that the Big Bang was caused by a soundwave.

 

[quatona]

Are you suggesting something can be its own cause? Where is the logic in that?

I didn´t ask you to make up stances for me. I asked you to substantiate your claim and walk me through the logical steps required to render it logically necessary.

 

[pchilde3]

Before any debate begins, don't you think you should at least acknowledge the point I and several others made about a sound wave not being physically possible without the existence of matter? Your whole OP is based on this idea, several here have explained why it's wrong...and you've pretty much ignored them. What would be the point of discussing the evidence for the big bang or the "discrepancies" you believe the big bang theory has if you just ignore the points other people make?

-I wouldn't say I am ignoring them, I have responded to most of my replies. My response is that nothing is impossible. More and more scientists are pointing in the direction that only a creator could have caused our existence. I believe that God spoke and things were. Every thing we are discussing is a stab at "how" God created things. The truth is, I don't know, you don't know and nobody knows "how". The only way we will know is when we enter the pearly white gates of Heaven.

 

[Davian]

-I wouldn't say I am ignoring them, I have responded to most of my replies.

Not mine.

My response is that nothing is impossible.

On what do you base that opinion? Scientifically, it may be impossible for there to be nothing.

Krauss '09: "A Universe From Nothing" - YouTube

More and more scientists are pointing in the direction that only a creator could have caused our existence.

Can you name these scientists?

I believe that God spoke and things were. Every thing we are discussing is a stab at "how" God created things. The truth is, I don't know, you don't know and nobody knows "how".

You just said "I believe that God spoke and things were." Why do you believe that?

The only way we will know is when we enter the pearly white gates of Heaven.

So what was the point of your OP? Just trolling?

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

In the Beginning
God created the Heavens
And the earth.

Beginning-Time
Heavens-Space
Earth-Matter

 

[pchilde3]

In the Beginning
God created the Heavens
And the earth.

Beginning-Time
Heavens-Space
Earth-Matter

-Short and sweet, but with so much depth and meaning. Very nicely done!

 

[pchilde3]

Romans 1:20 (ESV)
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

I love this verse. Thank you for posting it!

 

[pchilde3]

Unless you can present it in a testable, falsifiable manner, it is just something someone wrote in a book.

And, it wasn't even funny.

-Present the Big Bang theory in a testable, falsifiable manner, and not just something wrote in a book.

 

[pchilde3]

Did the universe prior to that have a "beginning" as we might understand it? I do not claim to know. Do you?

Would cause-and-effect as we observe it within the universe currently apply to the conditions, at the quantum level, that existed prior to the expansion/inflation of the cosmos? Experts in that field say no. Do you know different?

-Cause=God, Effect=Universe

 

[variant]

-Cause=God, Effect=Universe

So what is God and how does God make a universe?

 

[pchilde3]

I;ve found that most of the time when science deniers claim there are discrepancies, it stems from them not being properly educated as to what science is and what it says. Also from listening to anti-science people like creationists.

A point in case is your claim that the Big Bang was caused by a soundwave.

-That was cute. Did you find that from wikipedia? I am not anti-science. I believe science and math are great tools. Tools that we creationists can use to better witness to die-hard atheist. I am attempting to link creation to the Big Bang. Yes, I believe a sound wave triggered the big bang because GOD SAID, and it was done. Something you guys need to understand, is that God is more than we can comprehend. Our brains are not made to understand God's eternal existence because everything around us begins and ends. God does not being nor does God end. God is eternal. Our laws and theories will never be enough to explain God's existence, but an attempt can be made to better witness to atheist.

 

[pchilde3]

So what is God and how does God make a universe?

-God is mine and your creator. God created everything you see, everything you will see. God is someone you will meet one day if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior. God is someone that you can get to know through faith and reading the Holy Bible.

-God made the universe by speaking it in to existence.

 

[Davian]

-Present the Big Bang theory in a testable, falsifiable manner, and not just something wrote in a book.

I do not have to. Even in the absence of a naturalistic explanation for the observable cosmos, the burden of evidence is on you to establish the veracity of your claims. I will understand if you decline.