The Bible's Compatibility with Theistic Evolution

Cat Loaf You · Jan 22, 2018

Creation day was not like our 24 hour day , earth was spinning faster because it's slowing now , so it could be 23h or 22h we don't know maybe 18h but it could not be billion of years old it could only be shorter not longer amount of time .

If you believe Big Bang there is no need for God because there was death before sin , Bible teaches us that there was death after sin these are two fundamental opposite things , Christians who believe big bang need to rethink what they really believe because it's impossible to believe both Big Bang and be Christian .

klutedavid · Jan 22, 2018

redleghunter said:
I don't see how it may be a problem.

Genesis 1: NKJV

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Regardless of the sun or moon yet to be created, God defined the light as Day and the darkness Night.

Hello redleghunter.

There is a whole in your theology, please read the following.

On the fourth day.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.

The true definition of our solar day occurs on the fourth day.

You cannot read Genesis one and understand Genesis one, in a literal fashion.

Genesis one is a simple overview of the creative process, not a scientific paper.

redleghunter · Jan 22, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello redleghunter.

There is a whole in your theology, please read the following.

On the fourth day.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.

The true definition of our solar day occurs on the fourth day.

You cannot read Genesis one and understand Genesis one, in a literal fashion.

Genesis one is a simple overview of the creative process, not a scientific paper.

Yet before the sun there was a division of day and night.

Did time exist before the watch was made? Yes it was established and we created the watch to help us keep the time.

Oldmantook · Jan 22, 2018

Oscarr said:
So you are actually saying that women pastors, priests and ministers are not of God but are in disobedience to His Word?

Yes, I am saying that. If women occupy formal positions of authority in the church, then they are in disobedience to the Word.
1 Tim 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Tim 3:1-13
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseera must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,b sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

8Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued,c not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11Their wives likewised must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 2:3-5
In the same way, teach older women to be holy in their behavior, not speaking against others or enslaved to too much wine, but teaching what is good. 4 Then they can teach the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be wise and pure, to be good workers at home, to be kind, and to yield to their husbands. Then no one will be able to criticize the teaching God gave us.

Is that not what the Word declares?

NobleMouse · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello redleghunter.

There is a whole in your theology, please read the following.

On the fourth day.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.

The true definition of our solar day occurs on the fourth day.

You cannot read Genesis one and understand Genesis one, in a literal fashion.

Genesis one is a simple overview of the creative process, not a scientific paper.

What are your thoughts on Exodus 20:8-11? We keep being told the creation event was 6 days. This is given to us within the context of the 10 commandments and is not a good candidate for being interpreted as poetic allegory.

I open the question broadly to anyone here: If you read Genesis 1 as poetic allegory, imagery, spiritual non-literal truths, etc... then what is your response to Exodus 20:8-11 where we're told that creation was 6 days and we are to also labor 6 days, resting on the 7th day as God blessed it and made it holy? We still talking about billions of years? I propose the passages are clear here that both Genesis, Exodus, references from other NT authors, and Jesus himself all point to understanding that creation took 6 days and we are to understand and interpret Genesis as factual events that literally (albeit miraculously) took place.

redleghunter · Jan 23, 2018

NobleMouse said:
What are your thoughts on Exodus 20:8-11? We keep being told the creation event was 6 days. This is given to us within the context of the 10 commandments and is not a good candidate for being interpreted as poetic allegory.

Spot on. YHWH does not lie and His words do not come back to Him empty.

NobleMouse said:
I open the question broadly to anyone here: If you read Genesis 1 as poetic allegory, imagery, spiritual non-literal truths, etc... then what is your response to Exodus 20:8-11 where we're told that creation was 6 days and we are to also labor 6 days, resting on the 7th day as God blessed it and made it holy? We still talking about billions of years? I propose the passages are clear here that both Genesis, Exodus, references from other NT authors, and Jesus himself all point to understanding that creation took 6 days and we are to understand and interpret Genesis as factual events that literally (albeit miraculously) took place.

I guess if one wants to allegorize Exodus, then the Israelites wandered in the wilderness 40 billion years.

klutedavid · Jan 23, 2018

NobleMouse said:
What are your thoughts on Exodus 20:8-11? We keep being told the creation event was 6 days. This is given to us within the context of the 10 commandments and is not a good candidate for being interpreted as poetic allegory.

I open the question broadly to anyone here: If you read Genesis 1 as poetic allegory, imagery, spiritual non-literal truths, etc... then what is your response to Exodus 20:8-11 where we're told that creation was 6 days and we are to also labor 6 days, resting on the 7th day as God blessed it and made it holy? We still talking about billions of years? I propose the passages are clear here that both Genesis, Exodus, references from other NT authors, and Jesus himself all point to understanding that creation took 6 days and we are to understand and interpret Genesis as factual events that literally (albeit miraculously) took place.

Hello NobleMouse.

Who wrote Genesis and when?

Who wrote Exodus and when?

NobleMouse · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello NobleMouse.

Who wrote Genesis and when?

Who wrote Exodus and when?

Moses I believe is generally given credit as the author to both; however, to be "technically" correct, God was the author and Moses just penned it. Both are generally understood to have been written around 1400 to 1450 BC.

Not sure if you're hinting around to it, but to preemptively address, see 2 Timothy 3:16:
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Just to be clear, unlike science, scripture is from God (not the vain imaginings of man). God was actually there, God actually can create everything in 6 days (instantaneously for that matter), and actually told us when, how, and through whom all things were created (see John 1:1-3). So, when Jesus says we were created male and female in the beginning (Matthew 19:4), it's not just because He knew Genesis, He was there.

Thoughts?

redleghunter · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello NobleMouse.

Who wrote Genesis and when?

Who wrote Exodus and when?

Better yet, a good question is Did Jesus Christ and His apostles quote Genesis as literal history.

The answer is Yes.

klutedavid · Jan 23, 2018

NobleMouse said:
Moses I believe is generally given credit as the author to both; however, to be "technically" correct, God was the author and Moses just penned it. Both are generally understood to have been written around 1400 to 1450 BC.

Not sure if you're hinting around to it, but to preemptively address, see 2 Timothy 3:16:
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Just to be clear, unlike science, scripture is from God (not the vain imaginings of man). God was actually there, God actually can create everything in 6 days (instantaneously for that matter), and actually told us when, how, and through whom all things were created (see John 1:1-3). So, when Jesus says we were created male and female in the beginning (Matthew 19:4), it's not just because He knew Genesis, He was there.

Thoughts?

Hello Noble Mouse.

So Genesis and Exodus were written at the same time, according to some unknown tradition?

Was the book of Exodus and Leviticus written by Moses or was the law written by Moses?

NobleMouse · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello Noble Mouse.

So Genesis and Exodus were written at the same time, according to some unknown tradition?

Was the book of Exodus and Leviticus written by Moses or was the law written by Moses?

What? God is not tradition. God told Moses these things. What do you mean??

DavidFirth · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello Noble Mouse.

So Genesis and Exodus were written at the same time, according to some unknown tradition?

Was the book of Exodus and Leviticus written by Moses or was the law written by Moses?

Actually, the first ten commandments were written by the finger of God.

klutedavid · Jan 23, 2018

NobleMouse said:
What? God is not tradition. God told Moses these things. What do you mean??

Hello NobleMouse.

Is Exodus written in the first person?

Or is someone writing about Moses and Israel?

NobleMouse · Jan 23, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello NobleMouse.

Is Exodus written in the first person?

Or is someone writing about Moses and Israel?

See post #92... and I believe God wrote them twice since Moses broke the first tablets. So in a sense, it is doubly true (speaking about the 10 commandments).

Tom 1 · Jan 24, 2018

NobleMouse said:
Thank you for the reply brother! Taking us back to Jesus... we agree Jesus performed miracles and these miracles affected reality, physical matter, etc... and did so presently. John 1:1-3 states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He [Jesus] was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made."

From this, we know Jesus was with God (in the beginning) and all things were made through him. This seems to point to the idea that the reality of creation would not need to take long ages (though if God wanted it to, He could - I agree) as would be suggested by theistic evolution. With John, we don't directly know a short amount of time, but from what we know about Jesus, we know it is possible.

Moving on. In addition to Genesis stating days with evening and morning, Exodus 20:8-11 states:
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

While I do not read Genesis as poetic or allegorical (I take it as narrative and factual), if to do so is in error, this would certainly seem very odd in that this matter-of-fact, non-poetic text sums up all of Genesis 1 in a single sentence, again stating a 6-day creation (I underlined for emphasis). A day is a day, not an age, not a billion years. This is not poetic. God didn't reveal the events of creation directly to you or me (or anyone else here), but to the one He did they keep reiterating a literal 6-day creation. I'm not sure we can claim that we know the thoughts, intentions, purposes and truths of God today, some ~3,500 years after Genesis was written, better than the one whom God actually revealed His thoughts, truths, purposes, and intentions. I propose that if we want to understand what God's word says and what it means, we start with the text, not with what science asserts. Do you see Exodus 20:8-11 as poetic, or do you see it as I do in that this is talking about actual days?

Hi, to answer your last question no I wouldn’t consider that passage to be poetic. I also think your thoughts here raise the question of what is meant when we talk about the bible being inspired, and the way in which God works through and with ordinary people. But that will take longer to write out than I have right now lol. Interesting topic though.

klutedavid · Jan 24, 2018

NobleMouse said:
See post #92... and I believe God wrote them twice since Moses broke the first tablets. So in a sense, it is doubly true (speaking about the 10 commandments).

I agree that the ten commandments were written by God.

I agree that Moses wrote the law.

I do not agree that Moses wrote the book of Exodus.

NobleMouse · Jan 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
I agree that the ten commandments were written by God.

I agree that Moses wrote the law.

I do not agree that Moses wrote the book of Exodus.

Fair enough, so God wrote that creation was 6 days, which is incompatible with theistic evolution. Are you a proponent of theistic evolution or biblical creationism (or possibly a hybrid of views)?

klutedavid · Jan 24, 2018

NobleMouse said:
Fair enough, so God wrote that creation was 6 days, which is incompatible with theistic evolution. Are you a proponent of theistic evolution or biblical creationism (or possibly a hybrid of views)?

Hello NobleMouse.

I choose not to take sides, I prefer to strongly place emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For me, that seems to be the wiser course to steer, there are less bumps in the road.

NobleMouse · Jan 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello NobleMouse.

I choose not to take sides, I prefer to strongly place emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For me, that seems to be the wiser course to steer, there are less bumps in the road.

The death and resurrection is what is most important. Unrelated question: Is your profile image Shaun the Sheep? My kids really enjoy those shows.

klutedavid · Jan 24, 2018

NobleMouse said:
The death and resurrection is what is most important. Unrelated question: Is your profile image Shaun the Sheep? My kids really enjoy those shows.

Yes it is.

There are a few very funny episodes.

The Bible's Compatibility with Theistic Evolution

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