The Bible vs. Science

[jcook922]

I wonder if Zeena will ever say her own opinion instead of quoting websites and the bible, perhaps we will never know.

 

[Zeena]

But none of this proves that the Bible is inerrant, which is the orthodox position and the position held by CARM. CARM claims inerrancy of the original documents, which they don't have access too...while claiming 99% accuracy in their copies.

Six thousand copies scattered throughout the region, all saying the same thing, from the very same generation is not enough to convince you?

Of course, the Bible doesn't need to be inerrant for Christianity to be true, but the title of this thread is the Bible vs. Science, not Christianity vs. Science.

Today's form of 'Science' is not against Christianity, nor vica vera.. but it is against ideas and proclaimations without rigorous, imperical proof.

There are plentious imperical evidences to validate the testimony of the Bible to be true, from beginning to end. There are over 300 OT Prophecies [thus far] fulfilled in the Life of Christ on earth alone to reveal it's inspiration. Geological evidences for the flood, historical facts, eye witness testomonies and yes, even our own hearts testify that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

There are over 300 OT Prophecies [thus far] fulfilled in the Life of Christ on earth alone to reveal it's inspiration.

I hear this stat a lot... yet no one, when asked, has ever been able to provide me a comprehensive list of all these prophecies.

Geological evidences for the flood

For example?

historical facts

historical facts that prove the stories in the Bible are correct and accurate? For example? (Please note, "the Bible mentions Jerusalem, Jerusalem is a real place" doesn't count, as fiction or innaccurate accounts can be set in real places)

eye witness testomonies

From anywhere other than the Bible? Do tell...

and yes, even our own hearts testify that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.

I agree... but thats the only real evidence we have that the Bible is in any way accurate.

 

[Baggins]

S. Geological evidences for the flood, .

I am a geologist with 2 degrees in the subject and 20 years working in oil exploration and I have never seen any geological evidence for the biblical flood. What should I be looking for?

 

[Zeena]

There are plentious imperical evidences to validate the testimony of the Bible to be true, from beginning to end. There are over 300 OT Prophecies [thus far] fulfilled in the Life of Christ on earth alone to reveal it's inspiration.

I hear this stat a lot... yet no one, when asked, has ever been able to provide me a comprehensive list of all these prophecies.

http://bibleprobe.com/300great.htm

Geological evidences for the flood

For example?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i1/flood.asp

historical facts

historical facts that prove the stories in the Bible are correct and accurate? For example? (Please note, "the Bible mentions Jerusalem, Jerusalem is a real place" doesn't count, as fiction or innaccurate accounts can be set in real places)

eye witness testomonies

From anywhere other than the Bible? Do tell...

http://www.carm.org/evidence/extrabiblical_accounts.htm

http://www.carm.org/evidence/Josephus.htm

http://www.carm.org/evidence/Josephus_Jesus.htm

I agree... but thats the only real evidence we have that the Bible is in any way accurate.

Says you.

I am a geologist with 2 degrees in the subject and 20 years working in oil exploration and I have never seen any geological evidence for the biblical flood. What should I be looking for?

Because the Bible is inspired, it is also inerrant. This means that the Bible is without error, in the original documents and that everything that it addresses is without error in fact or understanding. The Bible is not a scientific book, but what it says scientifically is accurate:

• The spherical shape of the earth (Isaiah 40:22).
• The earth is suspended in nothing (Job. 26:7).
• The stars are innumerable (Gen. 15:5).
• The existence of valleys in the seas (2 Sam. 22:16).
• The existence of springs and fountains in the sea (Gen. 7:11; 8:2; Prov. 8:28).
• The existence of water paths (ocean currents) in the seas (Psalm 8:8).
• The water cycle (Job. 26:8; 36:27-28; 37:16; 38:25-27; Ps. 135:7; Ecc. 1:6-7).
• The fact that all living things reproduce after their own kind (Gen. 1:21; 6:19).
• The nature of health, sanitation, and sickness (Gen. 17:9-14; Lev. 12-14).
• The concept of entropy, that energy is running down (Psalm 102:26).

Furthermore, no archaeological discoveries have ever proven anything in the Bible wrong. It is accurate as a historical record.

http://www.carm.org/demo/Bible/inspiration.htm

http://www.carm.org/evidence/trustbible.htm

"The result, therefore, of this physical enquiry is that we find no vestige of a beginning, no prospect of an end"

Because it was MADE, God is the Artist.

 

[Zeena]

I wonder if Zeena will ever say her own opinion instead of quoting websites and the bible, perhaps we will never know.

Would you have me come empty handed?

Philippians 2:16
Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

 

[Baggins]

Geological evidences for the flood For example? http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...5/i1/flood.asp

Oh dear that laughable farago.

Isn't it sad when trusting people are lied to by those who expect to tell them the truth?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i1/flood.asp

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear Zeena,

Thankyou for the response to my post. Allow me to have a deeper look at your reply before responding.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Oh. I see now its just a strung together list of uncomentated URLs *sigh* I'm disapointed.

But, true to my word, I've looked at the sites you present. First of all, the so called 300 prophecies are unspeakably vague, not to mention quoted beyond any semblance of context. Also the small point that even including the wildly innapropriate ones (any mention of a "son" seems to have been co-opted, beyond any sort of contextual appreciation) there aren't 300 "prophecies" listed. From your cited URL, supposedly

Genesis 1:26 (4000 B.C.): "And God said, Let us make man in our image.."

Proverbs 30:4 (700 B.C.): "Who hath ascended up into heaven or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in His fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?"

Psalm 2:11-12(1000 B.C.):Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.​

I hate to seem cynical but... um... these aren't obviously prophecies regarding Jesus. Indeed, these seem to have nothing to do with Jesus. Obscure and tangential in the extreme. Not to mention the site then goes on to make references to the "Bible Code" which immediately makes me even more skeptical than usual.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i1/flood.asp The Grand Canyon? Wow... its really bad evidence of a "Great Flood"... on account of how flooding doesn't create canyons. Check under the ocean for the sort of formations we might expect a flood to form. Draining? It was caused as the water drained away I hear you say? Draining from where to where, pray tell? My layman's two cents, but lets see what Baggins, an actual geologist, has to say on the subject.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/Josephus.htm

Josephus never claims to have been an eyewitness to Jesus existance. Sure, he mentions him,

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ.

but never claims to have been a witness. You said there are non Biblical eyewitness accounts of Jesus... present them? Cos Josephus isn't it.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/extrabiblical_accounts.htm

Yes, there are a few contemporaary ancient historians who mention Christians and the Christian cult... but this isn't what I was expecting or hoping for. Where are the historical facts you promised? Where are the non Biblical accounts of anything miraculous? why, for example, is the massacre of the innocents not mentioned anywhere outside the Bible? why don't the Egyptians make mention of the Israelite slaves or their flight? Why doesn't anyone else's creation myths match up with Genesis?

 

[HannahBanana]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i1/flood.asp

Here's proof that the claim that that site gives is not true: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH581.html. And, unlike AnswersinGenesis, TalkOrigins actually provides logical, scientific proof of its claims.

 

[LittleNipper]

So God's allowed to do some things that humans aren't allowed to do? Isn't that kind of hypocritical?

No! That is what being the CREATOR of EVERYTHING allows.

 

[cantata]

In order to admit such an admission, you'd HAVE to admit a person has a soul, separated off from the body. For the feelings of such a one are, in fact, not representative of the facts of his gender.

Sex is defined by one's body. Gender is defined by how one feels.

Someone with a penis is (usually) of the male sex, but could be of a female or androgynous gender, depending on how (s)he feels. It has nothing to do with souls.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Six thousand copies scattered throughout the region, all saying the same thing, from the very same generation is not enough to convince you?

Oh so THAT's why historians say things like there were tons of contradicting Jesus stories being written around the 1st century A.D. and the Gnostics and other Christian groups were infighting until the Nicean Council eventually decided which peoples were "true" and which were "false." Silly me.

And no. Nothing about Genesis, the Noah story, even the Jesus story, Exodus, the actions of Herod supposedly taken in the bible, or the Tower of Babel story have been shown to be historically accurate. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[SiderealExalt]

No! That is what being the CREATOR of EVERYTHING allows.

At least you have the guts to admit that the concept of "holy" and a God being such is completely arbitary and that such a being couple in fact being according to moral axioms a vile evil entity. But still be called good.

 

[HannahBanana]

No! That is what being the CREATOR of EVERYTHING allows.

Okay, then how is it not hypocritical? Just because God is the "creator of everything" doesn't mean that he isn't subject to his own rules.

 

[Zeena]

Oh dear that laughable farago.

Isn't it sad when trusting people are lied to by those who expect to tell them the truth?

Yea..

And THIS from a supposed scientist..

There's PLENTY of evidence to be had, if you are willing to look..

 

[LittleNipper]

Okay, then how is it not hypocritical? Just because God is the "creator of everything" doesn't mean that he isn't subject to his own rules.

The rules are for our bennefit and not HIS. HE knows everything, sees everything, hears everything, created everything. Exactly how do you feel you measure up?

 

[HannahBanana]

The rules are for our bennefit and not HIS. HE knows everything, sees everything, hears everything, created everything. Exactly how do you feel you measure up?

How exactly does telling gay people that they're wrong for being born the way they were benefit them in any way?

And if his rules are so beneficial then why doesn't he follow them?

I feel like I'm much more ethical than God is, since I've never killed anyone, while God has killed millions of people.

 

[TeddyKGB]

There's PLENTY of evidence to be had, if you are willing to look..

One has to be willing to look at all the evidence, the avoidance of which has been made into an art form by professional creationists.

I am certain, in any case, that you have not looked at all the evidence. What, then, justifies you admonishing anyone else to do the same?

 

[Zeena]

One has to be willing to look at all the evidence, the avoidance of which has been made into an art form by professional creationists.

I am certain, in any case, that you have not looked at all the evidence. What, then, justifies you admonishing anyone else to do the same?

Not all, I said plenty, and I have.

Do I understand all that is before me, certainly not!
But by God's Grace, enough to bear witness to the Truth that is in Him.