The Bible Right Or Wrong!

[chizase]

Dealing with the comment about taking the entire Bible literally:

I must not have made my point of view clear. In no way do I think the Bible was written entirely in a literal sense. Anyone can see that much of it is parabolic, poetic, full of analogies & metaphors... and yet, I feel that every word is usefull, and can be applied to our lives today. As strange as some of the passages sound, especially those of the old testament (song of songs, psalms, etc.) there is a heart of what God wants to tell us.

There are many things that are hard to understand, not that the culture barrier and difference of centuries passed helps any; and that is why I brought up that I own a book that explains many of the ancient customs and traditions (book is called "Illustrated Dictionary of Bible Life & Times" by reader's digest). Referring to books such as this can help us see into the mindset of the authors of the Bible, and get an idea of what they were trying to say. While there were many customs and practices in ancient times that we could never understand, much of what is being said transcends surface understanding. While no one by today's standards would ever be stoned for cheating on their spouse, the seriousness of this sin is conveyed. God's demand for his people to be set apart from other cultures and set as a righteous example to the rest of the world was very serious.

Enter Jesus, and his death = we don't have to live in fear of being stoned, because the time of judgement has passed, and the time for great grace is here

Jesus talked in riddles and mysteries quite often which he called parables. Keep in mind that many of the people who he preached to were uneducated and quite dependant upon the local rabbis to interpret the torah and explain what God wanted out of them. Parables were a simplistic way of explaining to simple people the things of God. And that is another reason why God had to come to earth and become a man. How else would he be able to get across to us?

As for the comment about scripture and what it actually includes:

Matthew 5:18 says "Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot and one tittle (these terms mean 'not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen') will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" -Jesus

If you are having a hard time understanding which writings he is talking about, then I think you will never take the Bible at face value. No point in arguing with someone about the validity of the Bible based upon what it reads, when they don't believe it is valid in the first place.

As for referring to other sources, other books:

Revelation 22:18 Jesus says: "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: 'If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written this book' ".

I think the reference to the broke down Ford was a little over the top. And while I understand it was for making a point, auto manuals don't contradict who Jesus was, and what he tought.

I stand by my opinion about God's book: he didn't mess up when he put it together.

Remember, if you are not smart enough to stay out of an arguement, you are not smart enough to win one. So I gladly invite rebuttals

 

[mark53]

As for referring to other sources, other books:

Revelation 22:18 Jesus says: "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: 'If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written this book' ".

The above quote from Revelation is referring to that book. When the wwriter wrote this he was not referring to any other book but the one that he wrote. The Bible was not gathered together at that stage. The O.T was no officially set until the 2nd Century AD. And the N'T. not 'officially' until sometime later.
The N.T. writer had a different view on what is "Scripture" to what we have. There were the Pentateuch, Psalms and prophets. But there are a number of other books which were in different bibles from the Hebrew, Septuagint, Slavonic and others.

 

[TScott]

I think the reference to the broke down Ford was a little over the top. And while I understand it was for making a point, auto manuals don't contradict who Jesus was, and what he tought.


I stand by my opinion about God's book: he didn't mess up when he put it together.

Remember, if you are not smart enough to stay out of an arguement, you are not smart enough to win one. So I gladly invite rebuttals

Welcome to CF, chizase.

And welcome to the Liberal Theology thread. This is a place where one can feel somewhat free to excersize different ideas about Christian theology. Of course the fundamentalists will always come in here and try to drown out threads, which of course is their right, it is after all their site, but when that happens it tends to send most of us looking for another more enlightening thread. You came in just before the onslaught, so while it may seem you were ignored, I think most everyone had bailed out by then.

 

[artybloke]

I stand by my opinion about God's book: he didn't mess up when he put it together.

But God didn't put it together. It was put together over a long period of time by a lot of different people, including Jews and Christians.

 

[chizase]

But God didn't put it together. It was put together over a long period of time by a lot of different people, including Jews and Christians.

of course the book did not fall from the clouds. Take a look at 2 Peter 1:19-21:

"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (NKJV)

 

[chizase]

Welcome to CF, chizase.

And welcome to the Liberal Theology thread. This is a place where one can feel somewhat free to excersize different ideas about Christian theology. Of course the fundamentalists will always come in here and try to drown out threads, which of course is their right, it is after all their site, but when that happens it tends to send most of us looking for another more enlightening thread. You came in just before the onslaught, so while it may seem you were ignored, I think most everyone had bailed out by then.

Thanks for the reply. I have reasons for being in the liberal theology room besides causing heated arguments. I hope that no one thinks that I am in here to argue because there is a big difference between debate and arguement. People can see that I am somewhat of a conservative christian, and I am in here giving my opinion for two reasons:

1) the debate is "The Bible right or Wrong" which by the question's very nature, will have a two-sided answer.

2) I am willing to change my beliefs on certain subjects given the proper evidence. I do not want to go into a conservative forum where everyone thinks like me, and will only confirm my beliefs. How can the blind lead the blind? (I am not saying my views are blind), I would like people of different opinions to show my where I am wrong if I am, and possibly help shape my views. If other conservatives only agree with my views, possibly wrong views, I have no hope of opening my mind to new things. That is what this site is all about. Please see my intentions, not to chase people out of here, or make enemies. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. I am against christians who try to make someone believe what they do. The holy spirit is so much more gentle than that.

 

[chizase]

The above quote from Revelation is referring to that book. When the wwriter wrote this he was not referring to any other book but the one that he wrote. The Bible was not gathered together at that stage. The O.T was no officially set until the 2nd Century AD. And the N'T. not 'officially' until sometime later.
The N.T. writer had a different view on what is "Scripture" to what we have. There were the Pentateuch, Psalms and prophets. But there are a number of other books which were in different bibles from the Hebrew, Septuagint, Slavonic and others.

Thanks for the reply. I knew this kind of rebuttal might come my way, and while it is a very valid point (they were probably talking about just that book, but open for debate) the writer did not say what was said in that line of passage. Jesus said it. I am very aware of the process and time of canonization of the Bible, and even details regarding how they picked colored stones to choose which books would stay and which books would be thrown out. In a previous post of mine (above), I refered to passages in Matthew where Jesus talked about no jots or tittles would pass away. He was very serious about the Torah, and that is why it is quoted so many times throughout the new testament. From my point of view, Revelation 22:18 just happened to be at the end of the book of Revelation, but also at the end of the Bible as well. It was like his closing remarks for his 2000 page book. And the writer did not say to not add or take away from the book, or God would punish them. Jesus said it, and he did not write the book but had "cameo" appearances, so to speak.
Using this verse to back my stance on the validity of the Bible, I know, is a little shakey. I am torn, and I see it both ways. But I wanted to toss it out there for people to chew on.

thanks for replying, I enjoy receiving replies that tell me that I am wrong, so that I can take a step back and maybe reconfigure how I think. Maybe others can do the same from my words.

 

[mark53]

Thanks for the reply. I knew this kind of rebuttal might come my way, and while it is a very valid point (they were probably talking about just that book, but open for debate) the writer did not say what was said in

thanks for replying, I enjoy receiving replies that tell me that I am wrong, so that I can take a step back and maybe reconfigure how I think. Maybe others can do the same from my words.

This wasn't a rebuttal or telling you that you are wrong. But a different group of "facts" (whatever "facts" are and they seem to change every now and again!!)

I think that there are 3 different understandings of the Bible!

1. The Bible is the Word of God and is directly controlled in what goes in it!
2. The Bible is a collection of writings about the growing faith and various writers were 'inspired' to write their thoughts and understyandings of who this God-fella is!
3. Millions of positions in-between the other two!

The greater percentafge of Christians file under the 3rd response!

Keep searching.

A "true" liberal is one who searches always and will not accept what other people say that must be believed and wants to seek an answer for themselves.

 

[Skydancing]

A "true" liberal is one who searches always and will not accept what other people say that must be believed and wants to seek an answer for themselves.


I agree with that.

 

[mark53]

A "true" liberal is one who searches always and will not accept what other people say that must be believed and wants to seek an answer for themselves.


I agree with that.

If only those with a complete "literalist" understanding of the bible could accept this view for us we could have a meaningful discussion. Instead all we get is various "proof texts" which they keep on quoting!

 

[jgarden]

Whethter the original manuscripts were divinely inspired or not is somewhat academic. I am aware of no Bible where the interpretors make that claim. In fact they stress the limitations and imperfections of their interpretation.

 

[Skydancing]

People can quote texts forever, it is not going to make the slightest difference to those of us who don't believe that the Bible is a rule book for the way we live today!

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Wash each others feet in GOD'S SON, showing Jesus' example before He comes. Purify each others hearts in being Christ to one another in His Love,
and in His Peace.

This takes a death of our flesh nature which is just like Satan;
so show Christ's death until He comes. But until we repent God's
Holy Spirit won't keep dialogue with us,...we would have quenched
The Holy Spirit of God.

Holy Father in Heaven, separate from us all, from what is just our sticken rotten flesh. In Jesus Name. Amen.

Only Desperate people, because of the condition of our hearts,
get changed.

In Jesus' Peace--God separating darkness from His Light,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

People can quote texts forever, it is not going to make the slightest difference to those of us who don't believe that the Bible is a rule book for the way we live today!

Skydancing,

If you do what Jesus has said, you will know where it's a man's word or it's from Above---from Jesus' Father. So, go to Jesus and test it out.

[bible]Deuteronomy 5:29[/bible]

 

[mark53]

Skydancing,

If you do what Jesus has said, you will know where it's a man's word or it's from Above---from Jesus' Father. So, go to Jesus and test it out.

Then why does Jesus have so many different answers for so many different people. Are you saying that he gives the same answer always to the same person?

Deuteronomy 5:29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

So, therefore, ALL of the O T commandments MUST be kept. read The O T Law right the way through and you will see how many of these can not be applied to day. e.g. the way we are supposed to get rid of mold / evil from our walls!

 

[Jesus Is Real]

SKYDANCING.....

You might be able to glean from this post:

____________________

Then why does Jesus have so many different answers for so many different people. Are you saying that he gives the same answer always to the same person?



So, therefore, ALL of the O T commandments MUST be kept. read The O T Law right the way through and you will see how many of these can not be applied to day. e.g. the way we are supposed to get rid of mold / evil from our walls!

Mark53,

Tell me why you are so hurt that your wrath is towards
God's Word. Asking "why," tells me that your not all indifferent
from others who are asking why also. That you really want
to know.......but knowledge doesn't sooth the savage beast,
per se. This isn't your nor my answers to things, especially
when it comes to God's Son.

So tell me who has hurt you and we can somehow find a safe
place for both of us to talk this out where not only knowledge
will suffice but your hurts will be healed. I have hurts too this
is why I can ask this about you too, you know!?

In baby talk:
God has called us all gods, and so when others have hurt us
we REJECT that god that hurt us and also--->"THE GOD."

John 10:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

I was malested for a few seconds by an uncle--fell more into sin
along with more abuse much later having been abused by my son's
father with harsh words to me and him kidnapping my only son
but when God's timing was for me to WAKE UP.....I knew who
Loved me TO COME out of all THAT DARKNESS.
See, we've all known God from the first by ADAM AND EVE..
...but because of Satan we have been deceived in NOT
knowing THE LORD, once we believe His lie. If we are not
awake many are still in that lie, not knowing The Lord.

[bible]Revelation 12:9[/bible]
,...which deceiveth the whole world:

But God is greater!!!

[bible]John 3:16-17[/bible]

_____________________

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Then why does Jesus have so many different answers for so many different people. Are you saying that he gives the same answer always to the same person?



So, therefore, ALL of the O T commandments MUST be kept. read The O T Law right the way through and you will see how many of these can not be applied to day. e.g. the way we are supposed to get rid of mold / evil from our walls!

mark53,

I am glad you have at least looked at the Law!
Now what does the Law point you too? Perfection right?
It is Perfection to not have mold in your life.
It is Perfection to not have evil in your life....in your walls.
Ever heard the term "Walls of Salvation"?

Isaiah 60:18
18. Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

The Law speaks of a Perfect Work in God.
He who has no Mold.
He who has no evil on His Walls.

Mark53, In Christ you are complete because as He comes He fulfills the Law, and when He comes again he will complete the Fulfillment of The Law through Fulfilling the Last Feast: The Feast of Tabernacles.

 

[Polycarp1]

There's nothing wrong with the Bible.

There's quite a bit wrong with how some people use it, as a weapon against others. That wasn't what it was given for.

The conservatives have a saying, "Let Scripture interpret Scripture."

Well then, take them at their word. Scripture testifies that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. What He says is therefore binding and guiding on what others supposedly inspired by Him have to say.

Four times He defines exactly what constitutes keeping the Law and the Prophets.

What are those definitions?

"Do this, and you shall live."

 

[Jesus Is Real]

There's nothing wrong with the Bible.

There's quite a bit wrong with how some people use it, as a weapon against others. That wasn't what it was given for.

The conservatives have a saying, "Let Scripture interpret Scripture."

Well then, take them at their word. Scripture testifies that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. What He says is therefore binding and guiding on what others supposedly inspired by Him have to say.

Four times He defines exactly what constitutes keeping the Law and the Prophets.

What are those definitions?

"Do this, and you shall live."

Polycarp1,

True.

Most have turned away from God, there is a great falling away today.
God's last Promise is His Holy Spirit who leads us to put to death the deeds of our flesh if we miss this and rebel, we have sealed our end. God will not always strive with flesh.

[bible]Genesis 6:3[/bible]
Gen 6:3
3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh;NASU

[bible]John 3:16-21[/bible]

 

[70judge]

There's nothing wrong with the Bible.

There's quite a bit wrong with how some people use it, as a weapon against others. That wasn't what it was given for.

The conservatives have a saying, "Let Scripture interpret Scripture."

Well then, take them at their word. Scripture testifies that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. What He says is therefore binding and guiding on what others supposedly inspired by Him have to say.

Four times He defines exactly what constitutes keeping the Law and the Prophets.

What are those definitions?

"Do this, and you shall live."

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " `Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and `love your neighbor as yourself.'" "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "