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The Bible - Man's Instruction Manual

Bro.T

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I did address this, I showed you that John was quoting Moses in Revelation. In the scriptures its written in Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)

Let's read it again "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Revelation 22:18-19).

The Lord had all these books, put together as on big book. We can't divide them, or we will do destruction to ourselves. Pay Close attention to this in Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

So now we have to Bible, with all the little books in it, and the book of life. Commence would tell any person to leave the Bible alone period. It's to be read as one book now. Notice, they was judge according to their works.
 
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No point in continuing this conversation. Lets agree to disagree. You are quoting Scriptures out of context to support your odd theory. I believe the Bible teaches that being born again is to be born again spiritually, and to have a new heart with new desires by the working of the Holy Spirit. What I stated in post #79 (with Scripture) to prove this point stands.
 
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hedrick

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One thing about John 3 that's relevant here is 3:12. This refers to the birth from the Spirit as something that happens on earth. That makes sense, because the Kingdom of God is here and now. That's true in the Synoptics, where the Kingdom is both present and future, but Jesus' mission is to bring it about now. But also in John, where we enter eternal life now.
 
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Aussie Pete

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So why do we have the new Testament? Lord Jesus and Paul had only the OT to go by. That is why God revealed the new progressively to the Apostles and the Prophets. Every born again believer has the same Holy Spirit to lead us into the truth. The Bible alone is insufficient. Without the leading of the Holy Spirit, we are walking blind. For example, Peter was instructed to go see the gentile Cornelius. You won't find that in the Bible that Peter had to work with. So no, Lord Jesus did not quote a Bible verse to Peter on that occasion. God did not create us to be robots, slavishly programmed to follow a set of rules and regulations. He created us to be sons, friends and trusted servants in His Kingdom work.

Nothing that we are called to do will contradict God's word in the New Testament. However, that is not the point. We have a living, vital relationship with God - not with a book or a stone tablet.
 
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Isilwen

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We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
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Many people think they are following God or they have a walk with Him, but if they are disobeying God's Word in some way, then they truly are not in a relationship with Him. If they reject His Word in some way, they are not in fellowship with the Lord. The Living Word and the Communicated Word go together always. They are a package deal. Proof?

Well here is a list of verses.

The Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:


  1. Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).

  2. Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).

  3. Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).

  4. Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).

  5. Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).

  6. Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

  7. Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).

  8. Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).

  9. Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).

  10. Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).

  11. Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).

  12. Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).

  13. Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).

  14. Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).

  15. Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).

  16. Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).

  17. It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).

  18. Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).

  19. Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

  20. Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).

  21. Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).

  22. A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).

  23. Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).

  24. Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).

  25. Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).

  26. Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).

  27. Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

  28. Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).

  29. The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).

  30. Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

  31. Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).

  32. Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).

  33. Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  34. Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  35. Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).

  36. Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).

  37. Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).

  38. Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).

  39. Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).

  40. Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).
.41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See my post here for further details).


The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).​

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).
 
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Aussie Pete

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Good for you. Obviously you have a perfect walk with God, you are sinless and you exceed the righteousness of the first apostles. I am far from perfect, I stumble in many ways and yet I am born again. (James 3:2), However, you might like to take heed of 1 Corinthians 10:12 also.
 
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andrew1smith

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I am sure you understand far more than those who like to proclaim their own goodness. God bless
 
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Good for you. Obviously you have a perfect walk with God, you are sinless and you exceed the righteousness of the first apostles.

Well, it's not about me but it is about what the Scriptures say. I do not believe Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue because it deals with going the extra mile in putting away non-mortal sins. For an example of a non-mortal vs. a mortal sin, just check out Matthew 5:22 below (by the words of our Lord Jesus Christ).

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).​

The words highlighted in blue above are non-mortal sins, and the words highlighted in red is a mortal sin.

For there is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death (See: 1 John 5:16-17).

As for your your mention of words that say, “exceed the righteousness”:

Jesus says,

“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).​

This is a problem in regards to the popular view in Christianity in regards to salvation. In context, Jesus was not saying all this so as to make a point that we cannot obey God. Neither was Jesus teaching that we can commit mortal sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Him as the Savior. The whole sermon on the mount deals with how we must put away certain sins and if not, these sins can bring condemnation to us, and destroy our souls (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62). For to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-28).

You said:
I am far from perfect, I stumble in many ways and yet I am born again. (James 3:2),

You are reading James 3:2 from a corrupt Modern Translation (Note: Most Modern Translations stem from the Alexandrian Egyptian manuscripts. This is no surprise because Modern Translations remove 1 John 5:7, which is the one and only verse that point blank teaches the Trinity clearly and yet Alexandira Egypt is where Arianism originates (which just so happens to coincidentally removes 1 John 5:7 thereby supporting Arianism). Also, the Bible predominantly speaks negatively of Egypt, as well).

James 3:2 in the King James says,

“For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2) (KJB).​

Also, James 3:2 and neither the context supports that we can stumble into sin and still claim we are born again. In fact, James talks about the necessity of obedience to God's Word as a part of eternal life or salvation (See: James 1:12, and James 1:21). Granted, I believe being born again is a past experience, but just because a person has been born again spiritually at one point in their life does not mean that they cannot be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin and harden their heart and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-14). Those who are born again are characterized by doing righteousness.

“If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” (1 John 2:29).​

In fact, we are able to know the difference between the children of God, vs. the children of the devil on whether or not they do righteousness and love their brother.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
Is one doing righteousness if they justify sin?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” (John 3:20).
Does doing righteousness guarantee a believer is saved if they also commit sin or iniquity?

Jesus says,

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23).​

So Jesus is telling certain believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin.

Also, please pay close attention to these words by our Lord, as well (in the same passage).

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23).​

I don't know about you, but when Jesus says that MANY will say to me that they did wonderful works in His name, He is referring to the majority of believers in Jesus Christ because they did wonderful works in His name. But just doing good works alone was not enough because these believers also justified sin with the thinking they would be saved because Jesus said to depart from Him because He did not know them on the account that they worked iniquity (i.e. sin or lawlessness).

Most Christians today believe they can sin and still be saved. Jesus points them out by saying, ”MANY will say unto me...” (Matthew 7:22), and says for them to depart from Him because they work iniquity (Matthew 7:23).

Now, some in the sin and still be saved camp will attempt to try and twist our Lord's words in Matthew 7:23. However, the context will refute them every time. Matthew 7:26-27 (the context) basically says that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. This is a picture of the destruction of anyone (believer or not) who will be destroyed if they justify sin.

You said:
However, you might like to take heed of 1 Corinthians 10:12 also.

And how does one fall? By being deceived by the deceitfulness of sin and hardening their heart by sin and thereby departing from the living God (Hebrews 3:12-14). Both Hebrews 3 and the beginning of 1 Corinthians 10 talks about those Israelites who fell in the wilderness. Thus the warnings by Paul against sin 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Corinthians 10:6-10. The Israelites who fell away in the wilderness obviously fell away on the account of their justifying sin instead of seeking forgiveness with the Lord and then by a changed born again heart, they could then obey Him. Just read 1 Corinthians 10:6-11. There is no mention here about how the Israelites needed to trust in God alone and the future Messiah's finished work while they justified sin. That would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
 
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I am sure you understand far more than those who like to proclaim their own goodness. God bless

Where did I proclaim my own goodness? I was merely quoting the Scriptures. Yet, our friend did not give me any kind of explanation on the many verses that refutes the popular belief in Christianity today that says one can commit mortal sin and still be saved all because they have a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior and or a belief in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Yes, we need God's grace, and we need to believe the gospel of our salvation, but we also need to obey our instructions, too. For if Noah did not obey his instructions in building a boat, and getting on it, he would have perished along with everyone else. So faith alone would not have saved Noah. Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. In context, Hebrews 12:14 is talking about holy actions that we take.
 
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andrew1smith

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You wrote and I quote:

''Many people think they are following God or they have a walk with Him, but if they are disobeying God's Word in some way, then they truly are not in a relationship with Him''

So either you perfectly follow Gods word in its entirety or you do not have fellowship with him-according to what you wrote.
I assume the same rule applies to you as to everyone else?
 
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Well, making it personal is a standard tactic by those who hold to the popular sin and still be saved belief. If their belief cannot be supported with Scripture they make it about the individual instead.

But it is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).​

Also, the forum rules encourage so as not to cause heated debate that we are not to address the poster or the individual, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not). Do you honestly think Enoch lusted after women all the time, and yet the Lord took him whereby he did not see death? How about the 144,000?

The problem with those who hold to a sin and still be saved belief is that they are not accepting the plain words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:28-30. Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Jesus says that we not only have to receive Him, but we have to receive His words, too. For Jesus says in John chapter 12,

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).​

So Jesus says here that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. I am encouraging all brethren to accept the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30 so as to help them for their own benefit. The Lord our God does not want us to justify sin and or disobedience to His Word. He wants us to follow and obey Him.
 
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In addition, why don't you try responding to the verses I posted already in this thread. For the battle for the truth of God's Word is not one by looking at one person's life alone, but it will be won by what the Word of God says. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Do you build your faith on things seen (like your own life experience)? Or do you build your faith on God's Word?
 
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In addition, why don't you try responding to the verses I posted already in this thread. For the battle for the truth of God's Word is not one by looking at one person's life alone, but it will be won by what the Word of God says.
Im happy to have a discussion once you are humble and honest, and admit you fail your own test to have fellowship with God
 
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Im happy to have a discussion once you are humble and honest, and admit you fail your own test to have fellowship with God

Many in the sin and still be saved camp appear to build their faith on their own life experience instead of the Bible. They point out how nobody can stop sinning and they look to their own life and the lives of others to prove this. Do you know that faith comes by hearing the Word of God according to Romans 10:17? Do you know that we walk by faith, and not by sight? (See: 2 Corinthians 5:7).
 
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I know what Jesus said about the religious who insisted of others what they did not adhere to in their own lives. He reserved his harshest words for them.
Why can you not be honest, and admit, according to what you wrote, you could not have fellowship with God? What is the point of telling others how they must live according to the bible if humility and honesty escapes you. That is also biblical teaching
 
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Im happy to have a discussion once you are humble and honest, and admit you fail your own test to have fellowship with God

I believe the reason why have not explained the verses I presented so far that refutes a sin and still be saved type belief is because you are simply unable to do so. This is not my first rodeo in discussing this issue. I have been at this for 10 years, and it's the same ole song and dance. Folks will either ignore the verses I put up, or they will twist them to say something else that is not supported by the context.
 
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If you would take some advice, rather than trying to win debates here, it would be better for you not to demand of others what you fail to achieve in your own life. Some soul searching would be good
 
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See again post #92, and #93.

Again, those who adhere to a sin and still be saved type belief have no foundation to builld upon but their own life experience. They are not building their faith sight unseen in God's Word in what it says. They are not going off of what His Word says because they are for disobedience to God's Word.
 
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andrew1smith

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Theres too many people on these types of websites who demand of others what they do not try and follow in their own lives, all they want to do is win an argument. Its a fleshy thing. Be careful as what your true god is
 
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