The Bible does not say the Earth Is 7,000 Years Old

[TPop]

The moon didn't exist yet.

Not until Day Four of the Creation Week.



The sun didn't exist yet.

Not until Day Four of the Creation Week.



But spinning nonetheless.

[Gen 1:1-2 KJV] 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I do not know that the earth was spinning before day 4 when all the celestial bodies were put into place that exert the push and pull and create motion.

If it is your contention that Jesus made the Earth as a spinning object. Which day did He do this on? I see no indication that He did this until Day 4.

Day 1, Earth was inactive. There was no form and it was Not active.
This continues until Day 4. Nothing indicates otherwise.

Peace and Blessings

 

[AV1611VET]

[Gen 1:1-2 KJV] 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Keep that in mind: the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.

Not "hovered," like academia likes to claim.

I do not know that the earth was spinning before day 4 when all the celestial bodies were put into place that exert the push and pull and create motion.

The Spirit couldn't just twist the earth into motion, like we do a globe sitting atop a desk?

Then, three days later, let the "push and pull of the celestial bodies" take over?

If it is your contention that Jesus made the Earth as a spinning object.

It is.

Which day did He do this on?

Day One.

I see no indication that He did this until Day 4.

You're not looking high enough.

You're looking at celestial objects and gravitation and angular momentum and all sorts of other academia stuff.

Go higher.

Don't look "under the sun" as Solomon puts it, or all will seem to be "vanity and vexation of spirit."

Day 1, Earth was inactive.

But spinning.

There was no form ...

Until God gave it its form.

... and it was Not active.

But spinning.

This continues until Day 4.

On Day 4, the earth has been spinning for three days.

Nothing indicates otherwise.

Again, the Spirit of God "moved" upon the face of the waters -- not "hovered."

He could have certainly been pushing it.

[crude example] Much like "priming the pump" beforehand. [/crude example]

 

[Derf]

For the first 72 hours of the Creation Week, the earth was the only physical object in the universe.

Light was there. Assuming it was composed of photons, like today, there were photons as physical objects outside of the earth. There was also a firmament created by separating waters from waters, which was called "heaven". If heaven separated the waters on the earth from waters above the earth, then there was also some form of water during some of that 72 "hours" not on the earth.

 

[Derf]

Keep that in mind: the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.

Not "hovered," like academia likes to claim.



The Spirit couldn't just twist the earth into motion, like we do a globe sitting atop a desk?

Then, three days later, let the "push and pull of the celestial bodies" take over?



It is.



Day One.



You're not looking high enough.

You're looking at celestial objects and gravitation and angular momentum and all sorts of other academia stuff.

Go higher.

Don't look "under the sun" as Solomon puts it, or all will seem to be "vanity and vexation of spirit."



But spinning.



Until God gave it its form.



But spinning.



On Day 4, the earth has been spinning for three days.



Again, the Spirit of God "moved" upon the face of the waters -- not "hovered."

He could have certainly been pushing it.

[crude example] Much like "priming the pump" beforehand. [/crude example]

Indeed, the earth must have been spinning, because the light was separated from the darkness, and there was evening and morning.

 

[Derf]

Yes we can. Because when the Sun, Moon, and stars were created. They were created in motion, spinning, orbiting, etc.

So you assume. But scripture says nothing about them spinning and orbiting. So what we know about them now might not apply to them when they were first created.

That was a celestial clock . The first known time-keeping device was made on Day 4.

No, because time was first mentioned before the sun, moon, and stars were created. The earth seems to have been the first time-keeping device, ticking and tocking with evenings and mornings from the first day.

You will have to explain why days 1 thru 3 are not 24 hour days like day 4+ and since are.

No, I don't. You will have to explain how you know they were. I never claimed how long days 1-3 were.

Adam was not created as a fertilized egg. He was created as a fully formed man. The universe was spoken into existence. It did not take God Billions of years to speak things into existence.

I agree. The sun, moon, and stars were in place by day 5. "Years" mean nothing before the sun existed, since a "year" is defined as one orbit around the sun. Before the sun existed, there were no years. So days 1-3 could have lasted either very short or very long amounts of time with respect to what we now know as years.

If Jesus can come down and collect all of us to Him in less than the blink of an eye, I am assured that Jesus can speak things into existence in the blink of an eye.

Sure. But we're not talking about what He could do, rather what the bible says He did do.

How is it adding to scripture to define time? Be it a year, day, or hour?

It's not adding to scripture to define time. Genesis 1 defines a day for us. But it doesn't define "hour". To say you know how long an hour was in Gen 1:1-13 is to say you know more than what the bible tells us. You might be correct, but you can't use the bible as your source.

If anything, one brings Chaos into Creation by thinking God needs 20 min to do this, 2 trillion years to create this, 400 billion years to do that, 5 mill years to do this, and so on.

And the whole argument is sill anyways. You want to be precise about time and Physiscists of any kind cannot answer that for you. They don't know what is going on, what happened. First the planet needed to be 2.6 mill, then 2.4 billion, then 4.4 billion, then...., then.... what are we up to now? 2.6 trillion? As if there is some agreement on that now? It is a fools errand. A day is a day. Only man needs a day to be longer and shorter depending upon how he needs to explain 'thing's through a none spiritual manner.

Peace and Blessings

I agree that physicists have a hard time answering the question. But we also shouldn't speak authoritatively where the bible is silent. It's fine to speculate, though, as long as you don't claim biblical authority for your speculations.

 

[TPop]

Keep that in mind: the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.

Not "hovered," like academia likes to claim.

The Spirit couldn't just twist the earth into motion, like we do a globe sitting atop a desk?

Then, three days later, let the "push and pull of the celestial bodies" take over?
It is.
Day One.

You're not looking high enough.

You're looking at celestial objects and gravitation and angular momentum and all sorts of other academia stuff.

Go higher.

Don't look "under the sun" as Solomon puts it, or all will seem to be "vanity and vexation of spirit."

But spinning.
Until God gave it its form.
But spinning.

On Day 4, the earth has been spinning for three days.

Again, the Spirit of God "moved" upon the face of the waters -- not "hovered."
He could have certainly been pushing it.
[crude example] Much like "priming the pump" beforehand. [/crude example]

[Gen 1:2 KJV] 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

[Deu 32:11 KJV] 11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:

[Jer 23:9 KJV] 9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

Moved & Fluttereth & Shake

STRONGS H7363:Abbreviations
† I. [רָחַף] verb grow soft, relax (compare Arabic

be soft); —
Qal Perfect 3rd person plural רָֽחֲפוּ Jeremiah 23:9 (bones of one appalled).

II. רָחַף verb Pi. hover (Late Hebrew id., compare GrünbaumZMG xxxix (1885), 607; Syriac Pa.

move Gently, also cherish, and brood, compare Theson verse; connection with I. ר׳ dubious); —
Pi. Imperfect 3rd person masculine singular יְרַחֵף עַל Deuteronomy 32:11 (poem) of vulture hovering over young; Participle הַמָּ֑יִם עַל־פְּנֵי מְרַחֶפֶת א׳ רוּחַ Genesis 1:2 (P); hovering over face of waters, or perhaps (see Syriac) brooding (and fertilizing), so JerQuaest. in Gen. ed. Lag. 4 (reading 'marahaefeth), compare Di Gunk.

I believe it is to hover. In a protective mode. Because Satan had already fallen. Earth was protected by Jesus.

"The Spirit couldn't just twist the earth into motion, like we do a globe sitting atop a desk?"
Please rephrase without telling the Spirit what it is incapable or not allowed to do per your standards.

Regardless, how does the movement by Jesus imply the movement of the earth? As in Spinning. You have not bridged that gap. You have thus far said 1+2+?=7.

My statement still stands very well. Day for a Celestial clock was created. Day 4+ were 24 hour days. Days 1 thru 3 have no reason to be other. We dont make things 'other' just because. There needs to be a reason why Day 1 thru 3 were not 24 hour days.

Peace and Blessings

 

[AV1611VET]

My statement still stands very well. Day for a Celestial clock was created. Day 4+ were 24 hour days. Days 1 thru 3 have no reason to be other. We dont make things 'other' just because. There needs to be a reason why Day 1 thru 3 were not 24 hour days.

I believe Days One, Two, and Three were 24-hour days; just like Days Four, Five, and Six.

You don't think I think otherwise, do you?

You seem to be saying I do.

 

[TPop]

Indeed, the earth must have been spinning, because the light was separated from the darkness, and there was evening and morning.

Now you are using science to demonstrate what Jesus must do? Jesus is the Light. There is no Dark side of the moon or planet with regard to the Light of Jesus.

That light was more than a physical substance. That light was there before the Sun, Moon, Stars. It has a supernatural aspect. In the new Heaven and Earth there will be no Moon and Stars and Sun. God will again be the only light as he was in Day 1.

Peace and Blessings

 

[TPop]

I believe Days One, Two, and Three were 24-hour days; just like Days Four, Five, and Six.

You don't think I think otherwise, do you?

You seem to be saying I do.

I may be getting confused between you and Derf. To be honest, I may have missed you ever making any statement on this.
If you are just speaking with regard to 'spinning' then I need to be more careful.
Please forgive me if I have not been clear or confused positions between you and Derf. My apologies.

Peace and Blessings

 

[AV1611VET]

I may be getting confused between you and Derf. To be honest, I may have missed you ever making any statement on this.
If you are just speaking with regard to 'spinning' then I need to be more careful.
Please forgive me if I have not been clear or confused positions between you and Derf. My apologies.

Peace and Blessings

Not a problem, my friend.

I should be clearer in some of my stances.

 

[Apple Sky]

But spinning nonetheless.

Psalm 96:10 - "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." Psalm 104:5 -"Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.

 

[Derf]

Now you are using science to demonstrate what Jesus must do?

Weren't you using science when you said there were time-keeping devices? Don't we use science to demonstrate most aspects of nature? Jesus created a world that can be investigated using principles of knowledge to increase our understanding. If that were not so, then how could we know that the sun and moon are even physical creations now?

Jesus is the Light. There is no Dark side of the moon or planet with regard to the Light of Jesus.

Yet the passage is clear that there was both evening and morning, and that was after the darkness and light were separated. So, can you apply that to Jesus? Are you saying that there was some darkness in Him, and that His darkness and His lightness were somehow separated? Please explain how Jesus, being only light, can be both dark and light.

In addition, today the world spins. It might or might not have been spinning when first created (we don't know, since the bible doesn't say), but once the sun was created and set over the daylight, I think we wold both agree that the world was spinning by that time. If darkness was separated from the light, Gen 1:4, then there must have been some places where there was light and some places where there was no light. This was after the Spirit of God moved over the face of the waters, and after light was created. It seems natural to assume that the reason there were periods of darkness and periods of light on the earth at this point was because the light (not part of the earth) was present on one side of the earth, and that darkness was present (or light was absent) over the other side of the earth. There are two ways we know of for such a system to work.
1. That the earth spins while the light source is relatively fixed in space, or
2. That the earth is fixed and the light source progresses around it.

Since the latter doesn't comport with how the solar system works today, the former seems much more tenable. But I can't say for sure based on the information given in the text. Just in case we might have something wrong, let's try your way of understanding the light/dark/earth system.

1. Jesus is the light
2. Jesus might also be the dark, but I'll wait for you to clarify
3. The earth is not spinning
4. Therefore Jesus is going around the earth once per day, or once per 24 hours, at least until the sun is created to relieve Jesus of His job, at which time the earth starts spinning and going around the sun. Today the earth is somewhere around 25,000 miles in circumference. If Jesus is going around the earth once every 24 hours, assuming the earth today is the same size as it was back then, Jesus was traveling at a little over 1000 miles per hour, assuming He was at the surface of the earth, but probably quite a bit faster, because He was higher in altitude.

I'm being a little facetious there, but I'm having some difficulty understanding why Jesus being the light of the world would result in any darkness at all, since "in Him is no darkness, nor shadow of turning"? And why, since there is no shadow of turning, would Jesus be spinning around the earth at such a high rate of speed (though, certainly, Jesus would be able to travel that fast without too much trouble).

That light was more than a physical substance. That light was there before the Sun, Moon, Stars. It has a supernatural aspect. In the new Heaven and Earth there will be no Moon and Stars and Sun. God will again be the only light as he was in Day 1.

All things that God made have some supernatural aspect, wouldn't you agree? But since God made light on Day 1, and Jesus is eternal, how could Jesus be that light?

Peace and Blessings

To you as well!

 

[Apple Sky]

In addition, today the world spins. It might or might not have been spinning when first created (we don't know, since the bible doesn't say), but once the sun was created and set over the daylight, I think we wold both agree that the world was spinning by that time. If darkness was separated from the light,

But the earth doesn't spin, it is motionless & still.

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

 

[Derf]

But the earth doesn't spin, it is motionless & still.

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

This is not on topic for this thread. If you are wanting to discuss whether the earth is flat, go start a different theead.

 

[BeyondET]

[Gen 1:14 KJV] 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Jesus says that is what the Sun, Moon, and Stars are for.
If there were no Sun, Moon, or Stars, what would the Tilt of the earth be? And what would it be based upon?

Pease and Blessings

The tilt would be the same.
There's different constellations throughout the year and comets and other celestial activities. Using a sun dials or counting stars wasn't the only thing they used. If it was cloudy for weeks forget about counting the civil time.

Nothing is mentioned about stars being used for seasons, days, years. They are not the lights in the expanse or the great or lesser light. Scripture clearly separates the stars from being lights, because they are not lights but planets.

 

[BeyondET]

But the earth doesn't spin, it is motionless & still.

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Earth is in a fixed foundation zone and rotates around the sun while spinning along the way.

 

[BeyondET]

Indeed, the earth must have been spinning, because the light was separated from the darkness, and there was evening and morning.

The break out of early galaxies from the dominant dark hydrogen sphere.

 

[Derf]

The break out of early galaxies from the dominant dark hydrogen sphere.

I'm not sure how that applies, nor have I heard of it before. Would you like to explain?

 

[BeyondET]

I'm not sure how that applies, nor have I heard of it before. Would you like to explain?

The early universe the heavens was dark until green pea galaxies busted through the surrounding hydrogen barrier.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yes, it is too long to respond to in any detail. I don't think the dinosaurs are a "billion" years old, but I do agree that the earth is probably billions of years old. At least I give the scientists the benefit of their knowledge of dating rocks.

The 7 days of Creation were likely metaphorical days, or categories of time. I'm not sure how much we can read into the account since Moses was not a scientist. As a prophet there's only so much he could say from a scientific pov. However, I believe it was an accurate account.

God created the Earth in 6 literal days and rested the 7th literal day, period. That's why the Sabbath day was made...to commemorate the 6 days of Creation.

The Earth is about 6K years old, and soon Jesus will come and kick off the 7th millennium, which is the "1,000 years" of rest for the Earth as it lies in ruins awaiting for our post-millennial return, at which He will create the New Heavn and New Earth.