The Bereans

[MrPolo]

Your link doesn't say what you claim it does. Nothing in that link says that the Thessalonians "decided Paul's interpretation was wrong". It merely says that some Jews were Jealous. That's it. Nothing about disagreeing.

The passage says "some of the Jews were persuaded." The others rejected Paul's authority and they refused to accept the new teaching. What Paul was teaching that was fulfilled in the OT was not written at the time he presented it to them. The Bereans parallel the Thessalonians who "were persuaded."

You JUST said that Paul used SCRIPTURE to preach to the Thessalonians; now you conclude from what you just said, that "oral teaching" constitutes the word of God? You've just contradicted yourself.

I don't know what you mean. The word of God is transmitted both orally and in writing. Paul used both. He said his oral preaching was the word of God too.

1 Thes 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

 

[sunlover1]

The passage says "some of the Jews were persuaded." The others rejected Paul's authority and they refused to accept the new teaching. ...

It said many were persuaded didn't it?
And that some of the jews were "jealous"

Paul was reasoning with them ..explaining and
proving to them from Scripture that Jesus was the Christ...
(Many WERE receptive though to what He taught them...
but some of the jews were jealous...and went to the authorities
claiming that Paul and Silas were causing unrest (by claiming
another King (Jesus ) against Rome).

Here..check the Scripture to see if what I say is truth:

2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath
days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

3explaining and proving that the Christ[a] had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,[b]" he said.

4Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.

5But the Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad....

 

[Fireinfolding]

He spake to them in declaring Jesus and in Acts 13:41 is a reference to Hab 1:5

Love this part following as the scripture speak of what was happening

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles **besought** that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Now, as God says (In His great scheme of things)

Duet 10:12 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews **saw** the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and**spake against** those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

1Peter 4:14... on their part he is **evil spoken of**, but on your part he is glorified.

Thats the prophecy, its what he is "set for" (to be spoken against)

Luke 2:34 Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be **spoken against**

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

It worked, they were ticked off and jealous according to the word of God

Ephes 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Its all in good hands

 

[Fireinfolding]

It said many were persuaded didn't it?
And that some of the jews were "jealous"

Paul was reasoning with them ..explaining and
proving to them from Scripture that Jesus was the Christ...
(Many WERE receptive though to what He taught them...
but some of the jews were jealous...and went to the authorities
claiming that Paul and Silas were causing unrest (by claiming
another King (Jesus ) against Rome).

Here..check the Scripture to see if what I say is truth:

2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath
days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

3explaining and proving that the Christ[a] had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,[b]" he said.

4Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.

5But the Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad....

Amen sista

John 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

1Peter 1:11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven.

OT scripture begging for a name in relation to the ascension, inclusive of His descension

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1:8 Butunto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[shinbits]

The passage says "some of the Jews were persuaded." The others rejected Paul's authority and they refused to accept the new teaching. What Paul was teaching that was fulfilled in the OT was not written at the time he presented it to them. The Bereans parallel the Thessalonians who "were persuaded."

You're making stuff up. The Bible doesn't say that they "refused to accept the new teaching". The Bible doesn't even imply it. The Bible clearly says that they were jealous. You can still believe someone you're jealous of. It's probably because Paul was given the task of preaching the Messiah and not them, that made them jealous. Whatever it was, the Bible DOESN'T say anyone rejected Paul's teaching. That's something you just made up, and have no support for.

I don't know what you mean. The word of God is transmitted both orally and in writing. Paul used both. He said his oral preaching was the word of God too.

1 Thes 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Okay. But Scripture was still used. Scripture validated their oral testimony.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Jesus said...

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Abraham to the rich man...

Luke 16:31 If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And Jesus who was he who did rise from the dead and these (below) were convinced out of the scriptures (Moses/law and the prophets) of Him...

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

 

[MrPolo]

You're making stuff up. The Bible doesn't say that they "refused to accept the new teaching". The Bible doesn't even imply it.

The text says "some were persuaded." What is the implication of the others?

 

[MrPolo]

It said many were persuaded didn't it?
And that some of the jews were "jealous"

Correct!

 

[MrPolo]

Scripture validated their oral testimony.

When confirming Old Covenant prophecies of Christ, the OT was very useful. Therefore OT Scripture was an excellent resource for the Bereans to consult since Paul was teaching them that Christ fit the profile of the Messiah predicted in those writings.

At the same time, not all of the "word of God" is the "written word only." That is neither implied in the Bereans example nor the Thessalonians example, and is negated as a principle explicitly as I already mentioned in 1 Thes 2:13, and in other places like

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Oral teaching and his writing are named here as 2 modes of transmission of the Apostles' teaching.

 

[shinbits]

The text says "some were persuaded." What is the implication of the others?

That the others were jealous. Except that it's not implied, the Bible outright says it.

 

[Rick Otto]

When confirming Old Covenant prophecies of Christ, the OT was very useful. Therefore OT Scripture was an excellent resource for the Bereans to consult since Paul was teaching them that Christ fit the profile of the Messiah predicted in those writings.

At the same time, not all of the "word of God" is the "written word only." That is neither implied in the Bereans example nor the Thessalonians example, and is negated as a principle explicitly as I already mentioned in 1 Thes 2:13, and in other places like

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Oral teaching and his writing are named here as 2 modes of transmission of the Apostles' teaching.

Why assume that oral teachings would contain anything different than what was written ?
Where is this alleged body of oral teachings & what do they contain?Who has memorized them? Why not write them down?

 

[Standing Up]

I find the very idea that there would be a body of important teachings NOT written down, to be unbelievable.

 

[Standing Up]

When confirming Old Covenant prophecies of Christ, the OT was very useful. Therefore OT Scripture was an excellent resource for the Bereans to consult since Paul was teaching them that Christ fit the profile of the Messiah predicted in those writings.

At the same time, not all of the "word of God" is the "written word only." That is neither implied in the Bereans example nor the Thessalonians example, and is negated as a principle explicitly as I already mentioned in 1 Thes 2:13, and in other places like

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Oral teaching and his writing are named here as 2 modes of transmission of the Apostles' teaching.

The problem is, even if what you say were true, the problem is we don't know what that oral tradition was that was taught apart from scripture. No one knows.

Was it the Trinity? Paul says have been taught (past tense), not something that a council would formulate 300 years later.

So, what were those oral traditions Paul taught them c50ad?

 

[Christos Anesti]

Is there anything more authoritative than the word of God?

Divine Tradition is the word of God . In fact the Scriptures themselves are Tradition.

 

[shinbits]

Divine Tradition is the word of God . In fact the Scriptures themselves are Tradition.

who taught you this, your church or the Bible?

 

[Rick Otto]

Where can I get a copy of this alleged "Divine Tradition" that isn't scripture?
Has somebody memorized it? How do I tell if it is what it says it is, if it is only what is said? Why doesn't anyone write it down so I can access it?
What's up with that?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Where can I get a copy of this alleged "Divine Tradition" that isn't scripture?
Has somebody memorized it? How do I tell if it is what it says it is, if it is only what is said? Why doesn't anyone write it down so I can access it?
What's up with that?

Have you tried your local Christian book store

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

*SNIP*
..........According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.

Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

 

[Standing Up]

Have you tried your local Christian book store

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

*SNIP*
..........According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.

Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

No doubt. The ECFs are full of contradictory teachings, all claimed as divine Tradition.

The fact is what was enforced became Tradition as equal to scripture. IOW, it's Tradition because we say so and could enforce it as such. Wanna pray to the deceased? Go ahead. Wanna sacrifice? Go ahead. Wanna observe whatever? Go ahead. And we can find an ECF, or create one by writing a letter and attaching someone earlier respected bishops name to it, to support our man-made notions.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I find the very idea that there would be a body of important teachings NOT written down, to be unbelievable.

It's really not that uncommon of a practice in the history of religion . Look at the mystery religions for example. Many of them expresly forbid people from writting down their teachings for the public to see. Religions also exist in non-literate cultures and they obviously don't write down all their teachings. It should also be noted that many of the stories of the OT existed in oral form long before they were eventually set to writting.

I don't think anyone is saying that the oral traditions have never been written down either. Simply that they are not all written in the Scriptures.
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's really not that uncommon of a practice in the history of religion . I don't think anyone is saying that the oral traditions have never been written down either. Simply that they are not all written in the Scriptures.

So who should we trust concerning those oral traditions not written in the Scriptures
For example, the Jews use what is written in their Talmud concerning oral traditions and even they are divided into different "camps" concerning the interpretations of them.

I don't think it is much different from the Catechism the RCs use to interpret the Scriptures and traditions. Thoughts?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
The Babylonian Talmud

*snip*

Rodkinson has been widely criticized, both from traditionalist Jews who feel that translating the Talmud is not an acceptable practice, as well as from those hostile to the Talmud and Judaism in general.