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LDS The 'beginning' of God in Mormonism

dzheremi

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Re-reading my own post, I see that I erred in phrasing: it is not right to even say that God might be in 'two places at once', as that again makes Him bound to specific locations. So it is better to say, with the Fathers, that He is unbounded/uncircumscribed, filling all things, etc. Any of this language is good, because it all expresses the truth of the unlimitedness of the Almighty, over and against the objections of Mormons or any others who might have a different philosophy whereby God can't do things.
 
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Peter1000

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Lds believe their god has a body of flesh and bone and cannot be in more than one place at a time.

The God of the Bible does not have a tangible body and is unlimited in where he is at any one time.

Therefore, your god is limited and weak.
Your God is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has a resurrected body of flesh and bone. If your God wants to be in 2 places at the same time, can he split, or spread His body up in order to do that?

Explain how Jesus's body can be in 2 places at the same time?
 
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BigDaddy4

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Your God is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has a resurrected body of flesh and bone. If your God wants to be in 2 places at the same time, can he split, or spread His body up in order to do that?

Explain how Jesus's body can be in 2 places at the same time?
My God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus left earth with a body of flesh and bone and will return as such. However, you do not know what his current state is. No one on earth does, they can only guess and speculate. Jesus is not limited to his physical body's whereabouts. That's you and your weak, limiting god. Not mine.
 
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fatboys

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My God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus left earth with a body of flesh and bone and will return as such. However, you do not know what his current state is. No one on earth does, they can only guess and speculate. Jesus is not limited to his physical body's whereabouts. That's you and your weak, limiting god. Not mine.
So your like JWnwho beleive Jesus can materialize like on start trek. Lol
 
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withwonderingawe

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Does that mean He has access to transporter technology?


:)

We were discussing this the other day. When Jesus appears in the room after his resurrection how did that occur. Does his body materialize which would mean it has to break apart on the atomic level and then come back together on the other side of the wall. Or does he command the wall and it's atoms to part and let him through. The family decided it was the latter, he has power over matter.
 
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dzheremi

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The last few Mormon posts have really shown the stark contrast between Mormon belief and that of Christians. Addicted as they are to their materialist viewpoint, LDS apparently cannot help but direct all of their questions to bodily matters, and hence preoccupy themselves with silly questions about the physics behind Christ's miracles (shades of Christian Science, perhaps? Mary Baker Eddy claimed to have discovered the 'science' behind Christ's miracles, too...but no, Joseph Smith is the real deal! :scratch:), whereas the Christian has no trouble with the concept that divinity is unbounded, because by Christ's own words, before Abraham was, He is (John 8:58). The objections of the Jews to this point (that He -- meaning Jesus -- is not yet fifty years old, so how can He claim to be greater than Abraham when He could not have even seen him, as Abraham died long ago) are like those of the Mormons: logical, in a sense, but also revealing that they don't really know the One they are discussing. They try to enclose the uncircumscribed Logos according to their human understandings of space and time, but Christ our God is clearly having none of that.

[Staff edit]
 
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withwonderingawe

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Re-reading my own post, I see that I erred in phrasing: it is not right to even say that God might be in 'two places at once', as that again makes Him bound to specific locations. So it is better to say, with the Fathers, that He is unbounded/uncircumscribed, filling all things, etc. Any of this language is good, because it all expresses the truth of the unlimitedness of the Almighty, over and against the objections of Mormons or any others who might have a different philosophy whereby God can't do things.

The argument is based in a faulty understanding of matter. Most Christians do not understand their idea of a existence outside of the material world we live in comes from Greek philosophy rather than the Bible. The Greeks had their order of matter upside down. "In the Platonistic hierarchy ....,pure energy would have been at the highest end of material spectrum, with mass the gross characteristic of material, the the lowest end" Accepting that concept is "a fundamental precept ...at the heart of many assumptions about God... God is farthest from gross, imperfect, undesirable matter, and closest to pure spirit or energy"

The truth is the other way around; E=mc2
"...if m units of mass could be made to disappear, the units of energy that would be liberated would be m times the speed of light squared! In actual numbers, using the speed of light in a vacuum...it would means that it would require nearly 900 quintillion ...units of energy to be equivalent to just one unit of mass!"

If we were to take jar of light it would have less stored energy than a jar of the same size of natural gas, which would have less than a jar of liquid gasoline which would have less than and equal size of a lump of coal. The denser the matter the more stored energy it has. There is no such thing as pure energy, all energy has a source of matter.

To create one must have real power and real power requires energy. A god made of essentially nothing has no power, no power at all thus it would limit his ability create.

In the real universe made up of matter, God's physical body of matter gives him this real power.

In the Bible God the Father sits upon a throne with Jesus sitting at his right hand, to say that God is in all places at one time all the time is to deny that this throne exist.

Jesus said on the third day I shall be perfected, meaning he would receive his resurrected body.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up..... he spake of the temple of his body." John 2

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes..." Rev 21

God the Father also has a tabernacle or temple and he will dwell with us, in place and time.
 
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withwonderingawe

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The last few Mormon posts have really shown the stark contrast between Mormon belief and that of Christians. Addicted as they are to their materialist viewpoint, LDS apparently cannot help but direct all of their questions to bodily matters, and hence preoccupy themselves with silly questions about the physics behind Christ's miracles (shades of Christian Science, perhaps? Mary Baker Eddy claimed to have discovered the 'science' behind Christ's miracles, too...but no, Joseph Smith is the real deal! :scratch:), whereas the Christian has no trouble with the concept that divinity is unbounded, because by Christ's own words, before Abraham was, He is (John 8:58). The objections of the Jews to this point (that He -- meaning Jesus -- is not yet fifty years old, so how can He claim to be greater than Abraham when He could not have even seen him, as Abraham died long ago) are like those of the Mormons: logical, in a sense, but also revealing that they don't really know the One they are discussing. They try to enclose the uncircumscribed Logos according to their human understandings of space and time, but Christ our God is clearly having none of that.

Have fun accompanying the Jews in their disbelief in Christ, Mormonism! :wave:

Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

He was simply telling them that before Abraham was born He Jesus existed as Yahweh. That's why they wanted to stone him.
 
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Ran77

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We were discussing this the other day. When Jesus appears in the room after his resurrection how did that occur. Does his body materialize which would mean it has to break apart on the atomic level and then come back together on the other side of the wall. Or does he command the wall and it's atoms to part and let him through. The family decided it was the latter, he has power over matter.

Did you consider the possibility that He popped in from another dimension or that He warped to that spot?


:)
 
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withwonderingawe

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Did you consider the possibility that He popped in from another dimension or that He warped to that spot?


:)

We do have the concept of a spirit world but it's not at all the pleroma world of today's Hellenized Christians which exist independent of the physical of the materiel world. I think of it being more like the rays of light we can't see. If the light was to bend a certain way we could see it.
 
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Ran77

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We do have the concept of a spirit world but it's not at all the pleroma world of today's Hellenized Christians which exist independent of the physical of the materiel world. I think of it being more like the rays of light we can't see. If the light was to bend a certain way we could see it.

Which I would classify as an extra-dimensional space. Or even an overlapping dimension. I've considered this a possibility as well. Perhaps they can travel through this spirit dimension at the speed of thought. Wouldn't that be cool?


:)
 
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withwonderingawe

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Which I would classify as an extra-dimensional space. Or even an overlapping dimension. I've considered this a possibility as well. Perhaps they can travel through this spirit dimension at the speed of thought. Wouldn't that be cool?


:)
well my thought doesn't race by to fast but I'd like to think that still waters run deep
 
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fatboys

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That's nice of my family to have you give me a message from them.


:)
That's nice of my family to have you give me a message from them.


:)
I will. They get cranky with new people. They have had Captain Kirk for a few years. They kind of put him on display
 
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Peter1000

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My God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus left earth with a body of flesh and bone and will return as such. However, you do not know what his current state is. No one on earth does, they can only guess and speculate. Jesus is not limited to his physical body's whereabouts. That's you and your weak, limiting god. Not mine.

You would be the one speculating. If the bible says Jesus left the earth with a body of flesh and bone, (which it does) the reasonable thinking would be that he still has that body of flesh and bone. If you want to speculate to get him into a different form, to fit more into your agenda, then be my guest.

Mormons say that although his body is in 1 place, his light and truth fill the immensity of space. He also has the HS and other hosts of heaven that are everywhere acting in his name.
He also has access to the sea of glass (see Revelations) that allows him to have all things before him.

So again, many ways that Jesus can be in more than 1 place, but not physically.
 
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BigDaddy4

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You would be the one speculating. If the bible says Jesus left the earth with a body of flesh and bone, (which it does) the reasonable thinking would be that he still has that body of flesh and bone. If you want to speculate to get him into a different form, to fit more into your agenda, then be my guest.

You seem to be a little short on reading comprehension. I never speculated, I said no one could know for sure. It is you who is speculating.
Mormons say that although his body is in 1 place, his light and truth fill the immensity of space. He also has the HS and other hosts of heaven that are everywhere acting in his name.
He also has access to the sea of glass (see Revelations) that allows him to have all things before him.

So again, many ways that Jesus can be in more than 1 place, but not physically.

Of course you have to say and believe that to fit your agenda. That would be limiting Jesus to say that he cannot be in more than 1 place physically. He may CHOOSE to appear in human form in only 1 place at a time, but that does not mean he CANNOT appear anywhere else at the same time.
 
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Peter1000

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You seem to be a little short on reading comprehension. I never speculated, I said no one could know for sure. It is you who is speculating.


Of course you have to say and believe that to fit your agenda. That would be limiting Jesus to say that he cannot be in more than 1 place physically. He may CHOOSE to appear in human form in only 1 place at a time, but that does not mean he CANNOT appear anywhere else at the same time.
You say Jesus went to heaven with a body of f&b and will return with a body of F&B. Then you speculate and say but his present form is unkown to anybody.

A reasonable person would say, since he went into heaven with a body of f&b and will return with a body of f&b, he still has a body of f&b today.

One who has an agenda that Jesus is everywhere in the universe at the same time might say, he went into heaven with a body of f&b, then he went to his heavenly closet and took his body off and hung it in the closet. Then in a formless, nothingness, he spreads himself throughout the entire universe somehow, and then when he is ready to return, he goes back to his heavenly closet and takes his body off the hanger and puts it on again. Good luck with that speculation.

The answer I gave you is not what I had to say, but is a reasonable answer to how Jesus communicates to the entire universe without the gymnastics of being everywhere 24/7. Speculation for sure, but at least a conservative, reasonable explanation.
 
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