The 'Bee in my Bonnet'....

[reddogs]

Night asked me, why I was coming down so hard all of a sudden, which such heavy postings and threads. I can't find the exact question but I think that was close to what he meant. The answer is that my 'freethinkers' are fading, disappearing from my bible study group one by one. They cant go to any other church as they know the false/flawed doctrines and teachings and they can't in good conscious go there. I feel helpless as if they were on a lifeboat with me and now they have decided to get off and swim till they tire and the waves pull them under. They have lost any love for the truth in Adventism so they dont want to go there, so they are slowly drifting away, no church, no brotherhood, and I am heartbroken...

 

[Sophia7]

Red, who are your "freethinkers"?

 

[reddogs]

Red, who are your "freethinkers"?

They are SDA who dont call themselves 'Progressive' like here in the online world but here is what I described in the other thread:The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy

A similiarity that I've noticed with many of my 'freethinkers' and others in the online forums on Adventism and the SDA church has been that they are following one of what I call the 'Three-Legged Stool' of pushing the evangelical view, rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, attacking the Adventist beliefs/church/administration.

 

[Sophia7]

They are SDA who dont call themselves 'Progressive' like here in the online world but here is what I described in the other thread:The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy

A similiarity that I've noticed with many of my 'freethinkers' and others in the online forums on Adventism and the SDA church has been that they are following one of what I call the 'Three-Legged Stool' of pushing the evangelical view, rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, attacking the Adventist beliefs/church/administration.

So are you saying that people who leave the Adventist Church just drift around and are unable to find another church?

 

[2theBone]

I've been out of the "lifeboat" of self-appointed lifeguards for many years and the only difference I've seen is that I'm much happier and my life is much better.

I know MANY others who have the same experience.

The dangerous sea is all an illusion.

I'd be FAR more worried about the unfortunate folks still trapped in the boat.

Relax.......everything will be ok.

Read a book about codependency.

Seriously.

 

[BGMCFAR]

They are SDA who dont call themselves 'Progressive' like here in the online world but here is what I described in the other thread:The Three-Legged Stool of Apostasy

A similiarity that I've noticed with many of my 'freethinkers' and others in the online forums on Adventism and the SDA church has been that they are following one of what I call the 'Three-Legged Stool' of pushing the evangelical view, rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, attacking the Adventist beliefs/church/administration.

Reddogs I'm sorry you are heartbroken, But how many times I've heard and this is what sister White says or wrote. We wre told things to control us and found out later that it wasn't the truth .and my grandmother all her life admitted this to me and my aunt and she lived to be 96years and how many times have have I seen in thepuconference Gleaner don't forget the Church in your will. My grandmother payed her tithe and offering to the church and yet her childern and grandchildern made sure she out of love had food to eat and if any person could get close to the Lord there was never a more loving and humble woman not just because she was my grandma. Then youy wounder why people leave the church and why some of us wounder if were being told the truth or not.Its because people were not staight honest with us.

 

[tall73]

Red, I never called myself "progressive" in real life either. I was just someone who couldn't agree with the doctrine anymore. But my problem with your threads is that they don't provide any answers for me to reconcile my views, but they condemn me for having them. How does that help? How would that help your friends?

If you want some churches that your friends might feel comfortable at then send me a pm. I might have some ideas.

 

[reddogs]

Red, I never called myself "progressive" in real life either. I was just someone who couldn't agree with the doctrine anymore. But my problem with your threads is that they don't provide any answers for me to reconcile my views, but they condemn me for having them. How does that help? How would that help your friends?

If you want some churches that your friends might feel comfortable at then send me a pm. I might have some ideas.

Your issue which I have seen in your analysis and breakdown of truth and feel leads you, is that you try to solve it with self and may be shutting out the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not everything comes down to human logic and 'wisdom'..

 

[sentipente]

Your issue which I feel leads you, is that you try to solve it with self and shut out the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not everything comes down to human logic and 'wisdom'..

Please define human logic and wisdom. Why is it that human logic and wisdom seems to make more sense than what you claim the Holy Spirit is telling you? Are you sure you are being influenced by the Holy Spirit?

 

[reddogs]

So are you saying that people who leave the Adventist Church just drift around and are unable to find another church?

If you hold the Sabbath as truth, there are not many churches you can honestly accept or be accepted, so they must let go of that truth (and others which they currently hold) and thus the breakdown and twisting begins till they can justify anything...

 

[reddogs]

I've been out of the "lifeboat" of self-appointed lifeguards for many years and the only difference I've seen is that I'm much happier and my life is much better.

I know MANY others who have the same experience.

The dangerous sea is all an illusion.

I'd be FAR more worried about the unfortunate folks still trapped in the boat.

Relax.......everything will be ok.

Read a book about codependency.

Seriously.

Yes, depending on the church as a bus to get us there eventually must stop as the path gets narrow and we must individually make our way on it..

Some may interject that the path to destruction is wide and easy and heavily traveled, with much relaxing, and litered with good intetions...the narrow way of Christ is a much harder cross to bear...

 

[sentipente]

Yes, depending on the church as a bus to get us there eventually must stop as the path gets narrow and we must individually make our way on it..

Some may interject that the path to destruction is wide and easy and heavily traveled, with much relaxing, and litered with good intetions...the narrow way of Christ is a much harder cross to bear...

What exactly are you saying?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Night asked me, why I was coming down so hard all of a sudden, which such heavy postings and threads. I can't find the exact question but I think that was close to what he meant. The answer is that my 'freethinkers' are fading, disappearing from my bible study group one by one. They cant go to any other church as they know the false/flawed doctrines and teachings and they can't in good conscious go there. I feel helpless as if they were on a lifeboat with me and now they have decided to get off and swim till they tire and the waves pull them under. They have lost any love for the truth in Adventism so they dont want to go there, so they are slowly drifting away, no church, no brotherhood, and I am heartbroken...

There are two main things that could lead people out of your Bible study group. One is the people in the group and second is yourself. Have you considered the possibility that it is your inability to answer questions and ideas reasonably that is the problem.

You often say let the Holy Spirit guide you. But I have never heard you say how the Holy Spirit guides people. Do you think it is done apart from reason and logic. The God who set up this intricate universe, the God who came down to reveal Himself to us and yet it is not done with logic and reason. How can one interpret written words inspired by God if they can't use logic or reason.

I would suggest the reason for these people fading away is because you like so many other Traditional Adventists have replaced reason with Tradition and then you are surprised in a post modern world that rejects your tradition. It is a flaw in Christians thinking and it is not restricted to Adventism but if you want to affect people then do so with well reasoned arguments instead of appealing to the nebulous just listen to the Holy Spirit. I am truly surprised that with our history of bucking the religious trends we have become a church that in essence pleads to the burning in the bosom ...I am right kind of religiosity.

 

[JonMiller]

If you hold the Sabbath as truth, there are not many churches you can honestly accept or be accepted, so they must let go of that truth (and others which they currently hold) and thus the breakdown and twisting begins till they can justify anything...

You can go to a sunday church and still keep the Sabbath.

JM

 

[tall73]

Your issue which I have seen in your analysis and breakdown of truth and feel leads you, is that you try to solve it with self and may be shutting out the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not everything comes down to human logic and 'wisdom'..

So are you saying that the thousands who agree with me both in and out of the church are all shutting out the Holy Spirit? You already admitted in the other thread that the Scriptures do not spell out the Adventist IJ. So are you saying that the Holy Spirit leads each person to accept this non-biblical doctrine? Why have so few non-Adventists been led to it by the Spirit then?

Or do we get it from somewhere else?

 

[ricker]

Oops, Never mind.

 

[Sophia7]

If you hold the Sabbath as truth, there are not many churches you can honestly accept or be accepted, so they must let go of that truth (and others which they currently hold) and thus the breakdown and twisting begins till they can justify anything...

You can go to a sunday church and still keep the Sabbath.

JM

JM is correct. There are many other churches that one could go to, even on Sunday, and still observe the seventh-day Sabbath. I did not stop believing in the Sabbath commandment as a universally and eternally binding moral law just so that I could attend another church.

Neither did I reject other Adventist beliefs because I didn't want to be different from other Christians. I grew up being different, and I was accustomed to it. If I believed that God required it, I would not mind being different still. My beliefs have changed as a result of many months of Bible study and prayer. I want to follow wherever the Holy Spirit leads me. I am not drifting around, unable to find another church. I've been attending one regularly, but more importantly, I am a part of the body of Christ, which transcends denominational lines.

Red, you are free to disagree with our decisions and the decisions of your real-life friends, but please do not make judgments about our motives because you can't see our hearts. And if you have biblical evidence for your beliefs, then please present it, rather than simply arguing that we are wrong because we are rejecting what you believe is the "Spirit of Prophecy."

 

[StormyOne]

the bible says "Remember the sabbath to keep it holy." It does not say, "remember the sabbath to go to church...." Thus as Sophia pointed out, you can go to other churches and still keep the sabbath holy....

 

[BGMCFAR]

JM is correct. There are many other churches that one could go to, even on Sunday, and still observe the seventh-day Sabbath. I did not stop believing in the Sabbath commandment as a universally and eternally binding moral law just so that I could attend another church.

Neither did I reject other Adventist beliefs because I didn't want to be different from other Christians. I grew up being different, and I was accustomed to it. If I believed that God required it, I would not mind being different still. My beliefs have changed as a result of many months of Bible study and prayer. I want to follow wherever the Holy Spirit leads me. I am not drifting around, unable to find another church. I've been attending one regularly, but more importantly, I am a part of the body of Christ, which transcends denominational lines.

Red, you are free to disagree with our decisions and the decisions of your real-life friends, but please do not make judgments about our motives because you can't see our hearts. And if you have biblical evidence for your beliefs, then please present it, rather than simply arguing that we are wrong because we are rejecting what you believe is the "Spirit of Prophecy."

Amen Sophia Amen I have found myself very inspired in the Seventh Day Baptist church and and alot of times just going to the ocean or to the mountains and I can commune with and worship the Lord out thereand keep the Sabbath. Think of this and says on the seventh day God rested did it say and on the Sabbath God went into his templefor what to worship know it says he rested Oh and Reddog I remember aSDA pastoir reading from the spirit of prophecy whereegw said to take your family on the Sabbath and go out into nature and enjoy Gods handy work

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

So are you saying that the thousands who agree with me both in and out of the church are all shutting out the Holy Spirit? You already admitted in the other thread that the Scriptures do not spell out the Adventist IJ. So are you saying that the Holy Spirit leads each person to accept this non-biblical doctrine? Why have so few non-Adventists been led to it by the Spirit then?

Or do we get it from somewhere else?

Although this is directed at Red, I'd like to add my two cents here.

I fully believe that the Spirit can sometimes lead us on paths that may be very different, and even sometimes a detour to the truth. I don't know much about the IJ, so I cannot comment on whether this is a false teaching in my opinion or not. However, here's the example of how God led me...

Never touched a Bible in my life untill I was 15 or 16. Never wanted to come in a 10 foot distance of Christianity, because I saw it as flawed and all about control and fear. How would God get me interested in that situation? I mean, talk about stubborn and blind.

So you know what? He used a combination of New Age, Wicca, and a relationship to bring me to Him. Even though it was due to the relationship that I first forced myself to show interest, it was the beliefs that I had come to within Wicca and New Age that actually opened doors for me to believe what I read.

For example, my view on hell. THere was no way I would believe God would punish people like that. However, several years before..when I was around 12, I had been wiccan and adapted the belief of no litteral hell from it. Because of this, I was more open in the future to the SDA church simply because it conformed to a belief I already had. There were others, too.

So you see...I believe if was the Spirit that lead me to wicca at that time, in a sort of..pre-training for my future path towards Him. There was no way I would have gone for the Bible back then, but it also eased me into it in the future.

This is why I rarely judge someone for church hopping now. Sometimes the Spirit guides us in ways we cannot judge untill after.


Now, Red..

I wish we lived closer, Bro. I'd love to be able to attend a Bible study group. Never have, beyond Sabbath school lessons. To be honest, that's all I really am looking for now. Whether some of you have noticed or not, the SDA icon's gone from under my name now. So I'm kinda floating at the moment, myself. But I like this floating, I feel like I'm growing more..and now only God's holding me up.