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Ki Won

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Marilyn, I'm not into unpicking other people's posts, I did read what you wrote and have no idea how you come to any of the conclusions you have. The G20? Really?

Sure I can see the error regarding Islam, I myself used to think that AntiChrist would be the Imam Mahdi but that just doesn't fit the Scriptures. For example, if the Mahdi is the AC, how can he set himself up as God in the temple when he can't penetrate Jerusalem like it says in Zechariah 12?

And then your breakdown of the body parts of the beast has no Scriptural basis whatsoever whereas the study by Bayliss that I linked to DOES have VERY STRONG Scriptural basis, it's well worth the read.

You also fell into the same trap so many others before you have, what are the blasphemous names on the seven heads of the beast? You don't say, very few ever do, because they don't know..

I understand everybody thinks that they have it right and everybody else is wrong but any good Berean should be able to see the errors in most other interpretations. Like I said, I very much doubt that there is any interpretation that I haven't seen or that doesn't borrow large parts from one that I have.

Just like TribulationSigns you're making the mistake of thinking I don't know what I'm talking about when I have put literally thousands of hours of study into the subject, I'm probably better read on the end-times than you, Doug and the thug (j/k TS ) combined and then some..

I'm here to impart knowledge not cause division, anybody who thinks my interpretation is not Biblical aren't reading their Bibles properly. It is entirely Scriptural that God will bring judgement because people are worshipping false gods or false religions, he's done it before.. (Just ask Israel and Judah)

Blessings
 
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Marilyn C

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Marilyn, I'm not into unpicking other people's posts, I did read what you wrote and have no idea how you come to any of the conclusions you have. The G20? Really?

Hi Ki,

Yes the G20 is the premier forum of the world. All the main powers are there. And who actually are the predominant powers -

1. The British Commonwealth & America - (Emblems .................)
2. Russia - (Emblem ..........)
3. European Union - (Emblem ........)
 
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Douggg

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I agree that the beast claims to be God. But he also will claim to be greater than the God of Israel.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

The beast person will be a Jew.

In the early stages of the 7 years, the person will not speak that way against God. As the person will be anointed the King of Israel/messiah, but coming in his own name. That is what actually makes the person the Antichrist.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

As the Antichrist, he actually confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years (Daniel 9:27), following the instructions set forth for future leaders of Israel by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, reading the law to the nation from the temple mount on a 7 year cycle.

It isn't until three years later, thereabouts, that he magnifies himself in his heart, and thinks that he has achieved God-hood, goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God. Revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, as the Jews will be thinking at that time.

It ends his time as the Antichrist as the Jews (Israel) will reject him as continuing as their King. Rejected by the Jews in his claim of being God, and from being their King, the person goes viral in claiming he is greater than their God of Israel. And speaks all kind of blasphemy against the God of Israel, the True God. And begins taking his anger out on the Jews.

God has the person killed for his audacious act, by strangers to him. It is in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Once the person finds his soul in hell, God has such disdain for the person, God does not let him rest there, and brings him back to life.

Isaiah 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


Coming back to life, it will appear to the world, except for the saints, that his claim of having achieved God-hood, the pinnacle of everything called god, is true. And the world will worship him. And likely part of his spiel will be that they can becomes gods, too. Just not as great as him.

_____________________________________________
It is great that you are widely read on the subject.

I am almost 72 years old and have been involved in this subject matter for around 50 years. Here is one chart I made of the 7 year 70th week.


 
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Bruce Leiter

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Blessings to you too! Your interpretation has added a lot to the Scripture that is not in it. I mean that that chapter is part of a very symbolic book that has much in common with a lot of apocalyptic literature of that time. Of course, God inspired it as a series of symbolic visions, each of which covers the time from Jesus' first to his second, revealing more details each time.

Therefore, the beasts represent the dragon's agents on earth trying to ambush Christians. They fail and end up in the lake of fire with Satan (Rev. 20).

The whole point of the book is that Jesus rules humanity, punishes unbelief, and triumphs in the end, when true believers (the new Jerusalem) end up in the new creation (Rev. 21-22).
 
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TribulationSigns

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Privately interpreted based on “emblems”. Yeah, it is not rocket science that you’re wrong.

Next!
 
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Ki Won

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But how does that fit into Scripture? I refer you again to the Bayliss study, this is a renowned scholar not a Joe Schmoe on a YouTube video..

Animal Symbolism

He explains in detail, with Scripture references throughout, exactly what the animal symbolism is in the Bible and what it all means. I don't know about you, but I prefer to fall on the side of the scholar, personally, especially after reading his essay.

Honestly Marilyn, you should read it, it's really very good and very enlightening, I highly recommend it.
 
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Ki Won

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Erm.. The head of the EU? Have you and Marilyn been comparing notes? I understand that after 50 years you will have built up a quite plausible theory and convinced yourself that it was correct. My own position has wavered many times over the last few years, some of the arguments can be quite persuasive.

I will ask you one question about your interpretation before looking at it more deeply and that question is this. What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast and why are they blasphemous?

Answer me that Doug please.
 
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Ki Won

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Hi there Bruce, nice to meet you

In what way has it added to Scripture something that is not in it? I only want to understand what you're seeing so that I can better respond to you.

I agree the book of Revelation is symbolic but when God speaks of the beast He definitely refers to him as a person, the beast is definitely an entity in his own right. Including all of his seven heads..

The study by The Black Sheep Researcher that I included in my OP demonstrates quite clearly that the Roman god Janus, besides being Ba'al, despite usually being depicted as having two heads or two faces, in reality he has many heads. He's also been worshipped on nearly every continent and in nearly every cultural environment. As I said in my OP, it leaves little doubt that Janus is prime candidate A for the beast out of the sea.

I have to disagree that they fail, yes they fail in stealing the souls of the true Christians but they certainly don't fail in their ambush on Christians here on earth. In fact, pastors and teachers that have tickled the ears of Christians with pre-tribulation rapture doctrine have probably put the mortal lives of their flock in serious peril.

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"

That's an awful lot of Christians that "came out of great tribulation.." who most likely were beheaded for their faith in Christ as Revelation 20:4 tells us..

"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God"

As far as the "ambush" goes, Bruce, it very much is successful, unfortunately

The whole point of the book is the revealing of Jesus as the Son of God, the clue is in the the 1st verse..

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw."

I hope to be alive to see that revealing "in the flesh" so to speak, I'm certainly praying for the protection and the guidance as to what to do when the tribulation finally hits. I'm also preparing for a difficult time, both physically and spiritually, but that's a different conversation.
 
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Marilyn C

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Privately interpreted based on “emblems”. Yeah, it is not rocket science that you’re wrong.

Next!

So....what ever explanation you give will be on the description of the emblems.
 
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Marilyn C

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Actually Ki, I prefer to listen to teachers who are led by the Holy spirit. I did check out that site and saw that the person went into all the times the animals were mentioned etc. However it is about context. God often uses the same symbol but for different purposes. it is necessary to read the context.

eg. Jesus is called the Lamb of God, however not every lamb in God`s word is Jesus. The same about the `lion.` sometimes it is an actual lion and other times it is a symbol, or an emblem of a kingdom.
 
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Douggg

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I will ask you one question about your interpretation before looking at it more deeply and that question is this. What are the blasphemous names on the heads of the beast and why are they blasphemous?

Answer me that Doug please.
The Caesars considered themselves gods.


Here is another chart I made. Listing the heads - with names. The name of king 7 is unknown at this time.


 
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chad kincham

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If you want to hear the person I feel has the most accurate prophecy interpretation, he’s Walid Shoebat, an ex Muslim Christian born in Bethlehem who interprets scriptures with a Middle East mindset, not a western mindset.

 
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Douggg

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If you want to hear the person I feel has the most accurate prophecy interpretation, he’s Walid Shoebat, an ex Muslim Christian born in Bethlehem who interprets scriptures with a Middle East mindset, not a western mindset.

I am familiar with Walid Shoebat. Nothing recent, about 10 years ago. He is wrong about his interpretation of the Antichrist being the muslim Mahdi. Just like all popular bible prophecy commentators, he does not understand the concept of the Antichrist to start with.


The great opposer to Jesus

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

The Antichrist will be the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name. The person has to be a Jew, not a muslim.

 
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Ki Won

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Except the Jewish Messiah is not a blasphemy - He’s Jesus - though only a minority of Jewish folks accept that He is.

I kinda meant the messiah the Jews are allegedly already talking to..
Israeli Rabbi Says He's Already Holding Meetings With Messiah
They actually recognise two believe it or not, Mashiach ben David and Mashiach ben Joseph, whoda thunk?

And yes it is the counterfeit Christ that is included in my interpretation not the actual Christ.

Thanks for your reply
 
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Ki Won

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Translation: I prefer to listen to teachers who say the things I like to hear rather than highly educated scholars who have spent years of study on a single particular subject.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear"
 
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Ki Won

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The Caesars considered themselves gods.


Here is another chart I made. Listing the heads - with names. The name of king 7 is unknown at this time.


View attachment 287874

And those names are blasphemous because.. ?

And what about the emperors before Julius Caesar and after Nero? Why do they not feature? Let me guess, mental gymnastics..

No Doug, those heads/kings are not what you think they are. Why would it be the Roman emperor's anyway? Let me guess again, Daniel 9:26..

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined"

"It's the Romans! It's the Romans! That verse is referring to AD70.."

Do you know that Janus is the oldest Roman god? As in they were worshipping him even before Romulus and Remus founded Rome.. Ties slap bang into that verse, don't you think? No, of course you don't because to agree would mean you will have to let go of your own ridiculous interpretations.

As I said to TribulationSigns, have it your way Doug, it doesn't make me wrong. It does make you hard-hearted though, because a soft hearted, Spirit led Christian would be able to approach any passage or interpretation with an open mind.
 
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Douggg

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And those names are blasphemous because.. ?

And what about the emperors before Julius Caesar and after Nero? Why do they not feature? Let me guess, mental gymnastics..
The name of blasphemy was on the heads because the Caesars considered themselves as gods.

The kings were Julius Caesar through Nero. They are all of one family, which is called the Julio-Claudians. Nero was the historic last of that family dynasty. You can do an internet search "nero last of the julio claudian dynasty", to find that information.

No Doug, those heads/kings are not what you think they are. Why would it be the Roman emperor's anyway? Let me guess again, Daniel 9:26..
Daniel 9:26, Daniel 7:23-27, and Daniel 2:33-44.

boondoggle, and against the forum rules.
 
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Ki Won

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If you want to hear the person I feel has the most accurate prophecy interpretation, he’s Walid Shoebat, an ex Muslim Christian born in Bethlehem who interprets scriptures with a Middle East mindset, not a western mindset.


He's good but he's too hung up on Mahdi being the Anti-Christ, as my post demonstrates Mahdi is AN antiChrist along with the other six "messiahs" , he's no THE Anti-Christ. What Shoebat describes ala the nations that come against Jerusalem led by Mahdi is probably right on the money though.
 
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Ki Won

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But their NAMES aren't blasphemous, their claiming to be God is for sure but it's the NAMES that are blasphemous..

Daniel 9:26, Daniel 7:23-27, and Daniel 2:33-44.

Every one of those Scriptures could be applied to my interpretation..

boondoggle, and against the forum rules.

Sorry, newbie error please accept my apologies.
 
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