The Basics

[Tink]

If you consider yourself a Christian, what do you consider the basics to the Christian faith? I'm talking about salvation fundamentals. What beliefs/actions does one HAVE to have in order to be a Christian?

Share, share, share.

Thanks.

 

[LadyOfMystery]

Well firstly you have to be saved. For me though I dont think I could say what everyone's basics should be. Because all walks with God are different and what I may feel is a basic thing in my walk with Christ might not be the right thing for someone else. And it has to do with what God's purpose for them is.

With that being said though, for me a basic is to be content in all things in my life. To be content but to work toward goals with God's help. In any season in my life to feel content with what I have, who I am in Christ and content with where I'm heading in life. Easier said than done.

 

[Elliewaves]

I think that you have to believe in the power of the blood of Christ; that it has changed you and forgiveness has come. The old is gone; the new has come and then to walk in that.
Believe in your heart; and confess with your mouth. quite simply, that's it.
Everything else (as in change and becoming more like Christ) comes after that but it's all built upon this first belief.

 

[Tink]

Well firstly you have to be saved. For me though I dont think I could say what everyone's basics should be. Because all walks with God are different and what I may feel is a basic thing in my walk with Christ might not be the right thing for someone else. And it has to do with what God's purpose for them is.

With that being said though, for me a basic is to be content in all things in my life. To be content but to work toward goals with God's help. In any season in my life to feel content with what I have, who I am in Christ and content with where I'm heading in life. Easier said than done.

You say you have to be saved, but what constitutes salvation? How is one saved? Do they have to have a set of certain beliefs to insure that they get to Heaven or...?

I think that you have to believe in the power of the blood of Christ; that it has changed you and forgiveness has come. The old is gone; the new has come and then to walk in that.
Believe in your heart; and confess with your mouth. quite simply, that's it.
Everything else (as in change and becoming more like Christ) comes after that but it's all built upon this first belief.

So, believe Christ died for you, changed you and forgave you, then confess to be saved and that's it? What about believing that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one? Is that required? Do you have to believe that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God or do we just have to believe He died for us?

 

[Tink]

Also, I'm not trying to argue...I'm just trying to get to the middle of this, so to speak.

Thank you, ladies!

 

[Qyöt27]

Salvation is purely a function of God's grace, of which there is no set formula. He will dispense that grace to whomever He wants, and for whatever reasons He wants. There are, however, formulas for standard professions of faith, and it's those professions that define what orthodox Christian belief is (with the assumption that being of orthodox belief is the surest known way of being in accordance with said grace and eventual salvation).

These professions were usually made for the specific purpose of refuting one or multiple heresies, of which there were many in the Early Church period. It's not that heresies haven't persisted, or resurfaced, or new ones haven't formed, but the course of history allowed the Pauline tradition to solidify and coalesce into what we know today as being orthodox, and regardless of whether one is Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, or of one of the various schools of thought within Protestantism, the one thing (or well, group of things) they have in common is that they are all Pauline (Restorationists, despite being an offshoot of 19th century Protestantism, may or may not be Pauline - some are and some aren't). The overall standard profession of course being the Nicene creed:

    We believe in one God,

        the Father, the Almighty,
        maker of heaven and earth,
        of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

        the only Son of God,
        eternally begotten of the Father,
        God from God, Light from Light,
        true God from true God,
        begotten, not made,
        of one Being with the Father;
        through him all things were made.
        For us and for our salvation

            he came down from heaven,
            was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
            and became truly human.
            For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
            he suffered death and was buried.
            On the third day he rose again
            in accordance with the Scriptures;
            he ascended into heaven
            and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
            He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
            and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

        who proceeds from the Father [and the Son*],
        who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
        who has spoken through the prophets.
        We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
        We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
        We look for the resurrection of the dead,

            and the life of the world to come. Amen


*the infamous filoque clause.

The Chalcedonian and Athanasian creeds are even more direct about the nature of Christ and the underlying belief of what Trinitarianism consists of, but these don't necessarily see as wide usage as the Nicene (or even the Apostles') creed, especially in Protestant churches.

 

[twnsrkr]

Keep the Law inside and out.

 

[Tink]

Salvation is purely a function of God's grace, of which there is no set formula. He will dispense that grace to whomever He wants, and for whatever reasons He wants. There are, however, formulas for standard professions of faith, and it's those professions that define what orthodox Christian belief is (with the assumption that being of orthodox belief is the surest known way of being in accordance with said grace and eventual salvation).

These professions were usually made for the specific purpose of refuting one or multiple heresies, of which there were many in the Early Church period. It's not that heresies haven't persisted, or resurfaced, or new ones haven't formed, but the course of history allowed the Pauline tradition to solidify and coalesce into what we know today as being orthodox, and regardless of whether one is Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, or of one of the various schools of thought within Protestantism, the one thing (or well, group of things) they have in common is that they are all Pauline (Restorationists, despite being an offshoot of 19th century Protestantism, may or may not be Pauline - some are and some aren't). The overall standard profession of course being the Nicene creed:

    We believe in one God,

        the Father, the Almighty,
        maker of heaven and earth,
        of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

        the only Son of God,
        eternally begotten of the Father,
        God from God, Light from Light,
        true God from true God,
        begotten, not made,
        of one Being with the Father;
        through him all things were made.
        For us and for our salvation

            he came down from heaven,
            was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
            and became truly human.
            For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
            he suffered death and was buried.
            On the third day he rose again
            in accordance with the Scriptures;
            he ascended into heaven
            and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
            He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
            and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

        who proceeds from the Father [and the Son*],
        who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
        who has spoken through the prophets.
        We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
        We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
        We look for the resurrection of the dead,

            and the life of the world to come. Amen


*the infamous filoque clause.

The Chalcedonian and Athanasian creeds are even more direct about the nature of Christ and the underlying belief of what Trinitarianism consists of, but these don't necessarily see as wide usage as the Nicene (or even the Apostles') creed, especially in Protestant churches.

Okay, so belief in the things stated in the Creed are required for salvation, or they're extras?

Basically, you can't be assured of salvation because God gives it to the people He wants and anyone else is just...well, screwed?

Keep the Law inside and out.

So what you're basically saying is no human can achieve salvation?

 

[twnsrkr]

So what you're basically saying is no human can achieve salvation?

Lu 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 

[Qyöt27]

Okay, so belief in the things stated in the Creed are required for salvation, or they're extras?

Basically, you can't be assured of salvation because God gives it to the people He wants and anyone else is just...well, screwed?

Well, following Christ's example and teachings is what the focus of Christianity is, with the things stated in the creeds as being what historically-accepted orthodoxy says the correct beliefs about these topics are.

I have a feeling that anything more specific is going to get into the various differing beliefs about how Christ saves, because there are multiple atonement frameworks and there's not agreement on which one (if only one) to hold - noting, of course, is that one's ideas about how Christ saves isn't what saves you. For instance, Eastern Orthodox and many Lutherans prefer Christus Victor, Methodists prefer the governmental view, there are the penal substitution views that are common in Reformed churches (and Evangelical or Fundamentalist ones further down the line), etc.

One can have assurance of their salvation, but even that gets muddy when you think about the difference between the concept of losing one's salvation vs. OSAS.

 

[Tink]

Lu 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Yes, it says many. With all the people in the world, "many" isn't hard to achieve. So...you're quoting the NT...what about the part that says Jesus came and fulfilled the law? Does it not apply in this situation? He fulfilled it, but we still have to keep it in order to be saved? ETA: I'm not trying to argue; just understand.

Well, following Christ's example and teachings is what the focus of Christianity is, with the things stated in the creeds as being what historically-accepted orthodoxy says the correct beliefs about these topics are.

I have a feeling that anything more specific is going to get into the various differing beliefs about how Christ saves, because there are multiple atonement frameworks and there's not agreement on which one (if only one) to hold - noting, of course, is that one's ideas about how Christ saves isn't what saves you. For instance, Eastern Orthodox and many Lutherans prefer Christus Victor, Methodists prefer the governmental view, there are the penal substitution views that are common in Reformed churches (and Evangelical or Fundamentalist ones further down the line), etc.

One can have assurance of their salvation, but even that gets muddy when you think about the difference between the concept of losing one's salvation vs. OSAS.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[twnsrkr]

Yes, it says many. With all the people in the world, "many" isn't hard to achieve. So...you're quoting the NT...what about the part that says Jesus came and fulfilled the law? Does it not apply in this situation? He fulfilled it, but we still have to keep it in order to be saved? ETA: I'm not trying to argue; just understand.

He said to follow in His footsteps. Do as He did. He performed the law, so must we.

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Lu 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Tink]

He said to follow in His footsteps. Do as He did. He performed the law, so must we.

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Lu 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Interesting. I would have preferred the verses in context though. I'll look them up.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[r035198x]

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

He said to follow in His footsteps. Do as He did. He performed the law, so must we.

Don't do what He did. Do what He said you must do. He was Jewish and His purpose may not be the same purpose that He has for you.

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Lu 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You should interpret scripture with scripture

[FONT=&quot]Exodus 12:43-48 And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it, 44 but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him. 45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it. [/FONT]


Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Now see how the law is now defined in the new covenant established on better promises.

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Galatians 5:14

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." Romans 13:8

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."Romans 13:10

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well." James 2:8

"And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him." 1 John 4:16

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 1 John 4:12

 

[twnsrkr]

If you'd like to follow Paul(his name meaning "the breach"), that is your decision. I'm going to strive to follow the Messiah. He said to follow Him. He said it to alot of His disciples, if not most, and I plan on being one of them.

 

[r035198x]

If you'd like to follow Paul(his name meaning "the breach"), that is your decision..

I take it you don't accept Paul's teachings as direct revelation then? You should probably indicate that on your profile. If I had known that I wouldn't have posted all that.
Also, you must realize that denying Paul implies denying all the other apostles who confirmed him, like Luke and Peter e.g.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Which obviously implies denying all those that confirmed Peter and Luke. At this rate all you'll be left with is, shudder, the old covenant.

 

[Tink]

Thank you for your replies, ATM.

 

[twnsrkr]

I take it you don't accept Paul's teachings as direct revelation then? You should probably indicate that on your profile. If I had known that I wouldn't have posted all that.
Also, you must realize that denying Paul implies denying all the other apostles who confirmed him, like Luke and Peter e.g.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I'm not saying that Paul is worthless, I'm merely saying that the Messiah says to keep the Law. Perhaps you are misunderstanding Paul's statements like Peter spoke of:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Somber]

He said to follow in His footsteps. Do as He did. He performed the law, so must we.

Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Lu 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Good verses.

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Heaven and earth have not passed away yet. I'd like to say that our number one duty is to God and next is to our fellow man. If you notice there were two tables of stone, the one had to do with our duty to God (the first four commands) and the second table of stone had on it our duty to our fellow man ( the last 6 commands). And in Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said "....Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. " If we truly love God we will never intentionally sin against Him, and if we truly love man we will not intentionally sin against them either. But how can we know what sin is without some source or manual? God has provided that source Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

Jesus set forth the perfect example in his life of how we aught to live. The new covenant as prophesied by Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:33) was this Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
Jesus came so that we could fulfill it in our lives and hearts, so that we could be an example of Him in the world. We have to put off the old man with his deeds and put on the new man Colossians 3:9-10 "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"
The world needs to see a difference in our lives, they need to see Jesus' love through our lives, and that love hangs on all the law, the commandments bring knowledge and enlighten our eyes to how we should treat God and man.

 

[r035198x]

I'm not saying that Paul is worthless, I'm merely saying that the Messiah says to keep the Law. Perhaps you are misunderstanding Paul's statements like Peter spoke of:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

... and you are not misunderstanding?
Better to interpret scripture with scripture. See for example
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Jesus had to be born under the law and He was born under the law. But you are not born under the law, also see

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

What this means is that before Jesus was dead there was no new testament. That is why He needed to keep the law. The testament only comes into effect after death. Which is interpreted easily with
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Did you read the verse from Exodus 12? Was the law given to the Gentiles or to the Jews? Did you also read the verses that explain what fulfilling the law means under the new covenant?

Do you know that Jesus was circumcised (because it was law). But Paul wrote
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Were you circumcised?