The basics of evolution in plain language

[Kasey]

that's rediculous. the theory of evolution is intended to explain the origins of biological diversity ONLY. it has nothing at all to do with the origin of matter. we can't expect evolution to explain that anymore than we can expect general relativity, or quantum mechanics to explain it. do you also dismiss germ theory because it doesn't explain the origin of matter?

Oh, well I stand corrected on all that Evolution explains. I just understood the mainstream idea of it, that we all evolved over a long period of time.

If you know that Evolution doesnt explain the origins of matter, then why believe in Evolution?

 

[Kasey]

yes but there is no way for us to know that for sure. you believe god created the matter, you don't know it.

Well, whether or not I know it is actually debatable

 

[Dragar]

Well, im not trying to get on your bad side, but are you really content with just not knowing?

Call it a personality quirk but I couldnt stand to be that way, but thats just me

I'm more content not know (and admitting my ignorance) than I am making up answers. But I'm doing my best to find things out, in a way that lets me have good confidence in my answers.

Or, as a better man than I once said: "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard Feynman.

Of course, science always 'might be wrong'; I think Feynman was more referring to answers that didn't have evidence beyond reasonable doubt for their validity.

Dragar

 

[caravelair]

Oh, well I stand corrected on all that Evolution explains. I just understood the mainstream idea of it, that we all evolved over a long period of time.

If you know that Evolution doesnt explain the origins of matter, then why believe in Evolution?

because, in addition to having been directly observed, it is supported by an overwhelming body of evidence, as you can see here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

 

[Dragar]

If you know that Evolution doesnt explain the origins of matter, then why believe in Evolution?

Why believe germ theory, if it doesn't believe the origins of germs?

You don't visit the doctor, I take it?

Dragar

 

[Kasey]

I take it, then, you consider fluid dynamics flawed because they do not explain where the fluid being considered comes from?

How about general relativity? That's flawed because we don't know where spacetime comes from?

Dirac's relativistic electron? Nonsense; we don't know how electrons are created!

Germ theory? Flawed; we don't know where they came from!

Is your position apparently absurd enough yet?

Dragar

Not entirely. Coming form my position, I believe that I have evidence, lots of it, to prove where all of that comes from, but, whether or not you accept it is up to you. Therefore, always back to square one eh?

 

[Dragar]

Not entirely. Coming form my position, I believe that I have evidence, lots of it, to prove where all of that comes from, but, whether or not you accept it is up to you. Therefore, always back to square one eh?

You're not talking about evolution, Kasey. You're talking about atheism.

So..let me get this straight...

You reject an atheistic worldview because it fails to provide answer certain questions (i.e. origins of the universe, origins of matter, etc.)?

Dragar

 

[Kasey]

because, in addition to having been directly observed, it is supported by an overwhelming body of evidence, as you can see here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Hmm, ill take a look at that in detail later. Just to see whether or not it actually is plausible. After all, no point in being a hypocrite. It really doesnt solve anything.

 

[Dragar]

As for evolution...

Kasey, would evolution + God work better for you? With the two together, you can know where matter came from (God), and you know how life evolved to give us the diversity of the species (evolution).

Dragar

 

[Kasey]

You're not talking about evolution, Kasey. You're talking about atheism.

So..let me get this straight...

You reject an atheistic worldview because it fails to provide answer certain questions (i.e. origins of the universe, origins of matter, etc.)?

Dragar

Well, it just seems to me like Athiests always like to go towards evolution, I guess thats why i seem to mix them up a lot.

In regards to your question. Yes.

To me, any explanations of origins needs to be able to explain where matter comes from otherwise its not fact, its theory. A sound theory or provable fact would be able to answer those questions.

At least, thats the way I see it.

 

[caravelair]

Hmm, ill take a look at that in detail later. Just to see whether or not it actually is plausible. After all, no point in being a hypocrite. It really doesnt solve anything.

great! i think you'll find it's an interesting read, but it is a long one too.

 

[caravelair]

Well, it just seems to me like Athiests always like to go towards evolution, I guess thats why i seem to mix them up a lot.

In regards to your question. Yes.

To me, any explanations of origins needs to be able to explain where matter comes from otherwise its not fact, its theory. A sound theory or provable fact would be able to answer those questions.

At least, thats the way I see it.

but just because you have AN explanation, doesn't make it the right one, does it?

 

[Mistermystery]

Yes, I have a question. Explain the origins of "matter". Where did matter come from?

Has got NOTHING to do with the theory of evolution

 

[Mistermystery]

Exactly, you dont know, but lets avoid all possiblity of it being created by a God

Has got NOTHING to do with the theory of evolution

 

[Kasey]

As for evolution...

Kasey, would evolution + God work better for you? With the two together, you can know where matter came from (God), and you know how life evolved to give us the diversity of the species (evolution).

Dragar

No, it wouldnt because there are some aspects that actually correlate with my beliefs, but some do not. Therefore, in its entirely, evolution and my beliefs cannot completely co-exist.

 

[Kasey]

but just because you have AN explanation, doesn't make it the right one, does it?

Well, no, it doesnt mean the right one, but that depends on what you consider evidence and a very thorough examination of what I believe and why

 

[Dragar]

Well, it just seems to me like Athiests always like to go towards evolution, I guess thats why i seem to mix them up a lot.

That's because atheists don't have a Holy Scripture telling them answers which (when read in a literal interpretation) contradict science. Obviously, a non-literal reading of Gensesis is perfectly compatible with evolution.

There are atheists who don't believe evolutionary theory to be correct, by the by.

In regards to your question. Yes.

To me, any explanations of origins needs to be able to explain where matter comes from otherwise its not fact, its theory. A sound theory or provable fact would be able to answer those questions.

I think you're confused about atheism, but let's leave that alone for the time. I would like to try and disentangle evolution from atheism, however.

Evolution is not the same as atheism. You can have atheistic evolutionists, and theist evolutionists, and the atheistic non-evolutionists, and theistic non-evolutionists.

So, if you add God to evolution, is your world view still complete, without gaps?

Dragar

 

[Kasey]

great! i think you'll find it's an interesting read, but it is a long one too.

Ya, I know, but Ill look at it. It would be better to be informative in the future about discussing what people really believe about evolution now would it

Besides, Im always curious

 

[Mistermystery]

Yes. If you cant explain the origins of matter through a theory about existence and creation, then its flawed . Evolution explains how life evolved, I understand that, but it doesnt explain the origins of the "matter" that was there before the evolving.

Hence, flawed.

I'm sorry but that just ticks me off on multiple levels. Just because the theory of gravity doesn't explain why my sandwich doesn't taste like water I should dismiss it>? F*** that reasoning Kasey. You are now simply dismissing evolution (an explanaintion of how diffrent species came to be), because it can't awnser the origin of matter (an entire diffrent field of study).

Hence, your reasoning is flawed.

 

[Dragar]

No, it wouldnt because there are some aspects that actually correlate with my beliefs, but some do not. Therefore, in its entirely, evolution and my beliefs cannot completely co-exist.

Okay. Which parts about your beliefs conflict with evolutionary theory?

Dragar