The Baptism thing...

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by Andrew
"I know I'm a bit late to this discussion, but baptism is not 'works' (of the law)_as in Eph 2:8."

No one is saying it is a work of the Law in the sense that you find this water baptism law in Leviticus.

What we're saying is that it becomes like a work (working your way to heaven) when you say that the act of baptism is needed -- in addition to grace and faith -- to be fully saved. IOW The Blood + water -- dilution of the power of the blood.

I mentioned earlier that baptism is not a work that one does, it's something that's given to a believer as a gift. (does this make sense??) =)

Also, I mentioned that the early church understood that baptism and confessing faith in God was heavily linked to one another (Acts 2:37-38,41; Acts 8:12-13 ; Acts 8:35-38 ; Acts 9:18 ; Acts 10:47-48 ; Acts 16:15 ; Acts 16:33 ; Acts 18:8 ; Acts 18:24-19:7 ; Acts 22:16)

Now I don't know if you agree with that, but there's some really good books about baptism written by protestant scholars, like George Raymond Beasley-Murray and he does a great job explaining how baptism fits neatly into the covenantal context. 

-Jason

 

[jesusbball23]

Mark 16:16 - whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved. notice the AND in the passage, yes afterwards is says whoever doesn't believe won't be saved, etc, but it is not saying if you do not get baptized you will be saved, if you say that, than you are contradicting with the verse itself.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by jesusbball23
Mark 16:16 - whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved. notice the AND in the passage, yes afterwards is says whoever doesn't believe won't be saved, etc, but it is not saying if you do not get baptized you will be saved, if you say that, than you are contradicting with the verse itself.

What about the thief on the cross that Jesus told him how he would be with him in paradise that day. He didn't get baptized.

Baptizem is of the heart, now people do it with water as an outword sign, but it is not necessary, just like the thief on the cross.

Remember what John the baptised said about Jesus, "I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost"

Thats what Jesus is talking about, the Holy Ghost, not water.

 

[jesusbball23]

where does holy ghost baptism take place? Acts 2:38, where Peter preaches repentance, Baptism is of water (John 3:5).

-If you want to understand baptism, I suggest your do a concordance study of Baptism, look up every single scripture that talks about baptism and try to make a conclusion from there on of what Baptism is. Every scripture of Baptism will tie into what Baptism for salvation is.

-Remember this about the thief on the cross...Baptism is the participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-4). So the thief on the cross could NOT have been baptized because Jesus didn't die and be buried and be resurrected yet. He was saved by Jesus' physical presense, because he had the power to do so.

-Jesus' and john the baptist's baptisms weren't holy spirit and forgiveness baptisms. Jesus' baptism was a sign to John that Jesus is really the Messiah and John's baptism was just for the Jews to gain forgiveness but not the spirit indwelling and for the Jews to be prepared for Jesus.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by jesusbball23
where does holy ghost baptism take place? Acts 2:38, where Peter preaches repentance, Baptism is of water (John 3:5).

-If you want to understand baptism, I suggest your do a concordance study of Baptism, look up every single scripture that talks about baptism and try to make a conclusion from there on of what Baptism is. Every scripture of Baptism will tie into what Baptism for salvation is.

-Remember this about the thief on the cross...Baptism is the participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-4). So the thief on the cross could NOT have been baptized because Jesus didn't die and be buried and be resurrected yet. He was saved by Jesus' physical presense, because he had the power to do so.

-Jesus' and john the baptist's baptisms weren't holy spirit and forgiveness baptisms. Jesus' baptism was a sign to John that Jesus is really the Messiah and John's baptism was just for the Jews to gain forgiveness but not the spirit indwelling and for the Jews to be prepared for Jesus.

Hi Jesusball,

Thanks for sharing.  I just happened to come across this fascinating passage:

Matt 3:11 - "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

So the passage speaks of 2 different baptisms:  Jesus's and John's baptism.  And in Acts 19:2-6 we see a clear distinction between John's baptism and Jesus's baptism, which I think is often overlooked by many.

God bless!

-Jason

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

Acts 2:38 is not about water baptism.

What happened in Acts 2?

Pentecost, and the fulfillment of the prophecy that Christ would send the Holy Spirit. This is an example of baptism of the Holy Spirit; His indwelling.

 

[jesusbball23]

the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same baptism that is part of salvation in Acts 2:38, yes it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. To understand this, you MUST read all passage related to baptism and try to derive a conclusion relating all the passages. Then you will understand, it's correct interpretation. I challenge all of you to look at every passage that deals with baptism. Go to www.biblegateway.com and look them up.

 

[reeann]

I know i posted this on another forum. While Baptism is NOT necessary to save (nothing but the blood of Jesus).... Its necessary to show your obedience to Christ. I think its the first most singular act you can do to show your walking in obedience with Him. It needs to be done, not to save, but to show the obedience of your heart. It should not be taken as "optional" but not to save either

 

[cleon]

THe easiest way to understand the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which Pentecostals fail to recognize, is that God was forming something altogether new on the day of Pentecost, namely the Body of Christ. What happen on Pentecost was that all the believers (those who were saved) at that time were placed into the body of Christ.  Today, when one repents and believes the Gospel they are saved and immediately placed ithe body of CHrist.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.