• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Baptism debate

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Many church sprinkle water on people and call it baptism, but is this Biblical? The early church sprinkle water on a person when water was in short supplies or a person could not make it to a water source, such as death bed baptism like Constantine. I believe in either of this case it is ok to sprinkle water.

The baptist believe in full immersion, in-fact, Baptism is an English word it comes from the Greek word for Immersion. So if we read the Bible correctly we see God is saying it is to be done with immersion.

Some churches baptize babies, but is that Biblical? The baptist believe a person much be old enough to except Christ and have done so. Second a person must be old enough to understand what Baptism means. Baptism is being buried in the grave with Christ(going under the water, into the grave) and Being resurrected with Christ on Easter(coming out of the water, out of the grave with Christ).

So does sprinkling water, expect for the lack of water or a person being able to make it to water, does it count? Does baby baptism count? If they don't how do we address a person and show them the need to be baptized the proper way? Your thoughts?
 
May 29, 2011
745
64
New Brunswick
✟23,763.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others
is this a "let's quote the Didache" thread, or not? Because the Didache makes it clear that either one works, but then many Baptists that I know just have never heard of the Didache, much lest read it, much lest care about what it says. While it isn't canon, it reflects that early on both sprinkling and immersion were accepted.
 
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
is this a "let's quote the Didache" thread, or not? Because the Didache makes it clear that either one works, but then many Baptists that I know just have never heard of the Didache, much lest read it, much lest care about what it says. While it isn't canon, it reflects that early on both sprinkling and immersion were accepted.

Yeah i talked about when sprinkling of water was ok.
 
Upvote 0

98cwitr

Lord forgive me
Apr 20, 2006
20,020
3,475
Raleigh, NC
✟464,914.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
how does that happen wondering your thoughts.

Christ does it, see as John says:

Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’

And also:

Acts 1:5
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Don't think Peter meant water here, even if a water baptism was performed.

More evidence of Baptism of the Spirit BEFORE a water baptism was performed

Acts 10:47
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Acts 19:4
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

Can a baby repent? No.

In closing:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

^^^case in point
 
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Christ does it, see as John says:

Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’

And also:

Acts 1:5
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Don't think Peter meant water here, even if a water baptism was performed.

More evidence of Baptism of the Spirit BEFORE a water baptism was performed

Acts 10:47
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Acts 19:4
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

Can a baby repent? No.

In closing:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

^^^case in point

thanks that shows a person can be baptized by the Holy Spirit with out water, how does that happen?

Is it when we accept Christ? Is it by reading the Word, is it through prayer and fasting? I would said all could lead to baptism by The Holy Spirit. I think as you quoted Peter and those who were Baptize by The Holy Spirit before the council , were in fact baptized by receiving the Word.
 
Upvote 0
S

SeventhValley

Guest
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you—not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21



40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Don’t you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 He said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” 43 Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23


A. Can there be Christian baptism without immersion?
A. No. Christ was immersed, and commanded us to be immersed, and sprinkling or pouring water will not represent burial and rising again. (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12)

Q. B. If the person were very ill or the water could not be had, would not something else than immersion suffice?
A. In cases of extreme illness or scarcity of water it is not a duty to be baptized.-John A. Broadus's Catechism
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you—not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21



40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Don’t you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 He said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” 43 Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23


A. Can there be Christian baptism without immersion?
A. No. Christ was immersed, and commanded us to be immersed, and sprinkling or pouring water will not represent burial and rising again. (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12)

Q. B. If the person were very ill or the water could not be had, would not something else than immersion suffice?
A. In cases of extreme illness or scarcity of water it is not a duty to be baptized.-John A. Broadus's Catechism

I agree but 98 has a point, a person can be baptized by The Holy Spirit, this is not a water baptism. A person would still need to be baptize in the Name of the Father and Son i do believe.
 
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I would say preferably baptized. Once you have faith in Christ and are saved baptism is the next step. But it is a step on the path of sanctification. If you die on your way to a baptism you still are saved. My thoughts anyways.

I know there are plenty of people which believe you are not saved unless baptized, however, I am not one of those people.

I agree it is a great and wonderful act of faith, but a person is saved at accepting Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
maybe not necessarily, as Yhwh knows,
but usually, yes. (as a lack in faith, as a lack in obedience, and as a faith in someone else besides Yhwh(God) (like as in doing it to please someone else or to gain someone elses approval) ).

remember the gentiles immediately after they were immersed in the set apart Spirit, they went and were immersed in water in Yeshua's Name straight-away. same with Saul after the scales fell from his eyes - he was immersed in water in Yeshua's Name straight away, and the ethiopian in a chariot after the Scripture was explained to him, as soon then as he saw deep enough water; each in their situation as Yhwh orchestrated all.
 
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
49
Pa
✟6,506.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I could see a pastoral use of pouring if they know a person cannot be moved. Dose it have to be done....no. Is it a sin to pour? I don't think so.

I know if I was on my death bed and had not been baptized i would want to be, The fear i would want to make sure. It is also commanded of everyone who is saved to be baptized.

I understand most people do it on their death bed out of fear, I think with so many doctrines going on it does bring people to fear. I still fear some times, Just tonight I was reading about King David and how a man stuck out his hand to steady the Ark and God struck him dead. We forget some times that side of God, I understand they did not have the blood of Jesus to cover their sins, but still scares me. I think all those people who have no fear of God are going to be in for a big surprise.

Makes me also think we better be sure about what judgement we pass on God's children because God is nothing to play with.
 
Upvote 0

98cwitr

Lord forgive me
Apr 20, 2006
20,020
3,475
Raleigh, NC
✟464,914.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
thanks that shows a person can be baptized by the Holy Spirit with out water, how does that happen?

Is it when we accept Christ? Is it by reading the Word, is it through prayer and fasting? I would said all could lead to baptism by The Holy Spirit. I think as you quoted Peter and those who were Baptize by The Holy Spirit before the council , were in fact baptized by receiving the Word.

None of which lead to the Holy Spirit, as receiving Him is not something earned, it is freely given by God to the elect. It is about a change of heart from stone to flesh, for that is the only way to truly receive the Word. Recall the thief on the Cross, he was not baptized with water, but Christ accepted and saved him.

Acts 28:24
Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.

Why, in Acts 28, did some believe but not others?
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,480
3,740
Canada
✟884,512.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
A Baptist Elder and a Presbyterian widow were discussing the mode and manner of baptism. Latter that week the Elder received a phone call from the nice Presbyterian lady who ask if he would stop by she needed his assistance with something. When the Elder arrived he found out the lady's cat has died and she asked him to help bury it. The Elder said sure and went out to the back of the lot where the lady wanted the cat buried and sprinkled dirt over him and proclaimed, "your cat has been buried according to the Presbyterian understanding of the buried."

Now, I heard the joke only once before and I don't know if I got it right so please be kind. I think you get the picture. :)

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
 
Upvote 0

greatdivide46

Junior Member
Nov 7, 2011
1,390
138
Alabama
✟24,561.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I agree but 98 has a point, a person can be baptized by The Holy Spirit, this is not a water baptism. A person would still need to be baptize in the Name of the Father and Son i do believe.

What makes you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't in water? Is there some verse of scripture that declares it to be a dry baptism?
 
Upvote 0

THIS

I only want God's Truth
Apr 22, 2014
995
12
Hidden with Christ in God, see Colossians 3:3.
✟1,226.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Many church sprinkle water on people and call it baptism, but is this Biblical? The early church sprinkle water on a person when water was in short supplies or a person could not make it to a water source, such as death bed baptism like Constantine. I believe in either of this case it is ok to sprinkle water.

The baptist believe in full immersion, in-fact, Baptism is an English word it comes from the Greek word for Immersion. So if we read the Bible correctly we see God is saying it is to be done with immersion.

Some churches baptize babies, but is that Biblical? The baptist believe a person much be old enough to except Christ and have done so. Second a person must be old enough to understand what Baptism means. Baptism is being buried in the grave with Christ(going under the water, into the grave) and Being resurrected with Christ on Easter(coming out of the water, out of the grave with Christ).

So does sprinkling water, expect for the lack of water or a person being able to make it to water, does it count? Does baby baptism count? If they don't how do we address a person and show them the need to be baptized the proper way? Your thoughts?

Pouring and sprinkling are not how it was done, no such teaching in the Bible. If you want to get particular about it, a person would be baptized and fully immersed while there was flowing water to symbolically wash their sins “away.”

However, the Ethiopian, when wanting to be baptized, saw some water, probably well water-drinking water, and not flowing water, because of where they were on the road to Gaza was in the desert. Philip still baptized him in that water.

Acts 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."

Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?"

As for Catholics and other denominations such as the ones Calvinists belong who do infant baptisms, we know this is falseness, since baptism in water is for the remission of sins.

John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80).

We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ into our lives.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

The Bible tells us before people were baptized-they repented. Infants cannot repent.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1:5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Acts 19:18
Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.

Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

Romans explain this perfectly.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Water baptism is a promise of a good conscience to God. See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Infants cannot make a promise. Moreover, no one, not even the infant’s parents can make a promise for their child, nor can anyone make a promise for anyone else.

Infant baptism interferes with people knowing and obeying the Truth. Infant baptism confuses non-Christians and those who want to be a Christian. Many people baptized as an infant do not understand why they do not really know the Lord. Those baptized as infants do not usually walk the path that Jesus teaches...unless they learn more of the truth later. Infant baptism has been confusing millions of people for years. It is more serious of an issue that most even realize.
 
Upvote 0

98cwitr

Lord forgive me
Apr 20, 2006
20,020
3,475
Raleigh, NC
✟464,914.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
What makes you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't in water? Is there some verse of scripture that declares it to be a dry baptism?

Yep

John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’

Acts 1:5
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

See there is a differentiation between baptism with water (as noted by John), and baptism of Spirit, which is Spiritual, not worldly.

Water baptism is like a wedding ring, it is not required for marriage, but is an outward symbol of an inward unity. Do it if you can. :)
 
Upvote 0

THIS

I only want God's Truth
Apr 22, 2014
995
12
Hidden with Christ in God, see Colossians 3:3.
✟1,226.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What makes you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't in water? Is there some verse of scripture that declares it to be a dry baptism?
Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
 
Upvote 0