The Atheist's dilemma

[Jeremy E Walker]

No one wanted to address this?

They could choose to disobey God and did. Sin entered the world and death through sin which is our point.

Men and women are still choosing to disobey God to this day, thus sin, death and violence abound and will abound all the more until God personally puts an end to it which will soon take place as has been written.

 

[Deidre32]

You're actually making a point for the validity of the bible here. It can be proven in the same way you said the Holocaust can be proven, except for the eye witnesses who are still alive. But once they're gone, you only have what is written, and the eye witness accounts of people who are gone. The bible has that, plus archeological evidence, and in many cases it matches historical records written by others.

With all this in mind, why would these historical events listed in the bible be interlaced with God (as the basis), miracles, and other supernatural things if they didn't actually happen? The events listed there aren't just ones they wanted to put there to make the writers look good. They listed the 400 years of slavery they spent in Egypt, along with how God worked miracles that allowed them to escape. Why would they say such things if they weren't true, along with the miracles that happened in response to their own disobedience? Those aren't flattering things to put in history. Yet those are things listed in the O.T., and the Jews take it very seriously as a part of their history.

If I could put in a nutshell, my view now it would be that I don't believe Christians or Jews or Muslims or anyone knows anymore than I do, as to who or what a god is. They just think they do.

 

[PsychoSarah]

They could choose to disobey God and did. Sin entered the world and death through sin which is our point.

Men and women are still choosing to disobey God to this day, thus sin, death and violence abound and will abound all the more until God personally puts an end to it which will soon take place as has been written.

Except we aren't choosing it, the bible even says humans are incapable of not sinning.

 

[quatona]

They could choose to disobey God and did. Sin entered the world and death through sin which is our point.

Men and women are still choosing to disobey God to this day, thus sin, death and violence abound and will abound all the more until God personally puts an end to it which will soon take place as has been written.

So much for your "free will" defense.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Except we aren't choosing it, the bible even says humans are incapable of not sinning.

I am capable of living without sinning. I do not know about you.

 

[BL2KTN]

Lol... maybe that's why you're under siege so much?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I am capable of living without sinning. I do not know about you.

do I need to pull out the bible verse that says you are wrong?

 

[Aldebaran]

If I could put in a nutshell, my view now it would be that I don't believe Christians or Jews or Muslims or anyone knows anymore than I do, as to who or what a god is. They just think they do.

Just try to keep an open mind. That's the only way we learn new things.

 

[Deidre32]

I am capable of living without sinning. I do not know about you.

lol

Just try to keep an open mind. That's the only way we learn new things.

ok, will do. and you as well. lol

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

do I need to pull out the bible verse that says you are wrong?

Be my guest.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

They could choose to disobey God and did. Sin entered the world and death through sin which is our point.

Men and women are still choosing to disobey God to this day, thus sin, death and violence abound and will abound all the more until God personally puts an end to it which will soon take place as has been written.

He could have put an end to it from the very beginning.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I get your point. It is based on the understanding that God created them and just threw them into the Garden without any provision or guidance or direction.

This is completely inaccurate. God gave Adam clear guidance, and followed it with a warning. He told Adam you may freely eat of any of the trees in the Garden, but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die.

He said,

YOU SHALL NOT eat.

and that if you decide to go ahead and disobey...

YOU SHALL SURELY DIE.

This is clear, concise, and to the point. Death results from disobedience.

You would have us think that God just threw the man out into a jungle without any guidance or any provision whatsoever.

But noooooooo! Adam and Eve had all that they could have ever needed at their fingertips, but chose to do the ONE THING God told them not to do!

God set Adam and Eve in the position where they could choose to use the freedom He gave them. They chose freely to rebel.

Humans are still making that choice even as we speak.

God created Adam and Eve without any concept of right or wrong and then punished them for acquiring knowledge of right and wrong even though he knew, before he even created them, that they would do so. She is right. He did throw them into the world without proper guidance. More accurately, he created them without the necessary capacity to appraise his commands and then blamed them for it.

 

[Deidre32]

thank goodness it's only a metaphor lol

 

[Archaeopteryx]

God gave them specific instructions not to eat of the fruit of just one tree, and informed them that they would die if they did. They had freedom of choice to either obey or not obey.

If you had a child and told them not to do something, along with the consequences if they disobey, and they go ahead and do it anyway, are you setting them up to fail an unrealistic test?

Should I then punish that child's eventual children, and their children, and their children after that? Is that the kind of parent you want me to be?

 

[Deidre32]

Excellent points ^^

Another sticking point for me. Jesus instructs his followers to forgive incessantly, yet God creates an eternal place of punishment? Huh?

God wants us to forgive but he doesn't?

 

[Aldebaran]

Excellent points ^^

Another sticking point for me. Jesus instructs his followers to forgive incessantly, yet God creates an eternal place of punishment? Huh?

God wants us to forgive but he doesn't?

Oh my!
I don't mean to be talking down to you now, but this really makes me think that when you were being raised as a Christian before, you weren't taught the basics very well, and that has led you to abandon your faith. That's why I think you'd believe again if you just heard and understood the truth. I will try to help you with that the best I can, although I have to admit I don't have all the answers.

The reason Jesus instructs his followers to forgive is because He has forgiven us, and we have eternal life through Him if we accept His sacrifice on the cross. He has forgiven us, therefore we are to forgive others. The place of eternal punishment is for those who reject His forgiveness.

 

[Deidre32]

Oh my!
I don't mean to be talking down to you now, but this really makes me think that when you were being raised as a Christian before, you weren't taught the basics very well, and that has led you to abandon your faith. That's why I think you'd believe again if you just heard and understood the truth. I will try to help you with that the best I can, although I have to admit I don't have all the answers.

The reason Jesus instructs his followers to forgive is because He has forgiven us, and we have eternal life through Him if we accept His sacrifice on the cross. He has forgiven us, therefore we are to forgive others. The place of eternal punishment is for those who reject His forgiveness.

You are talking down to me, but when it comes to explaining absurdity, perhaps you think sounding authoritative will make a difference.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Be my guest.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Never thought I would use a John verse against a Christian

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Oh my!
I don't mean to be talking down to you now, but this really makes me think that when you were being raised as a Christian before, you weren't taught the basics very well, and that has led you to abandon your faith. That's why I think you'd believe again if you just heard and understood the truth. I will try to help you with that the best I can, although I have to admit I don't have all the answers.

The reason Jesus instructs his followers to forgive is because He has forgiven us, and we have eternal life through Him if we accept His sacrifice on the cross. He has forgiven us, therefore we are to forgive others. The place of eternal punishment is for those who reject His forgiveness.

How patronising!

 

[Aldebaran]

You are talking down to me, but when it comes to explaining absurdity, perhaps you think sounding authoritative will make a difference.

Sorry! Didn't mean for it to sound that way. It's just that you said,

Another sticking point for me. Jesus instructs his followers to forgive incessantly, yet God creates an eternal place of punishment? Huh?

God wants us to forgive but he doesn't?

God most certainly DOES forgive! The entire foundation of Christianity is that Christ came here so that we WOULD have forgiveness.