The atheist indoctrination project

[Morcova]

This country is a Christian nation,

No it's not.

and it is abhorrent that the government has taken God out of public schools!

That's a lie.

I want my children brought up properly, understanding the Word of God, so I will be home schooling my children. But I pity the poor people who, for whatever reason, are unable to homeschool, and are forced to send their children to these liberal indoctrination camps that are "public schools". I pray that these good Christian children won't be corrupted by such an education.

Apparently parents are fools these days and completely unable to actually RAISE their children and require schools to do that for them.

Angie here's a wild idea, YOU are responsible for the raising of your child, not the government, if you want your child to be raised a christian... raise them that way. Don't give them to the government and then get angry when the government doesn't raise them the way you want them to be raised.

When did people decide that the way their children were raised was no longer their responsiblity????

 

[flicka]

If I were teaching I'd love include God and Christianity in my lesson plan. Although I don't think any Christan's would be happy with what I had to say.

Knowing that, do you guys understand why it's in your best interest to have keep these things separate? Teach your kids what you want about faith at home, let them learn about other things at school. If you do your job right there is nothing they will be exposed to in school that will harm their faith. If it is harmed then the blame is entirely yours.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

No it's not.

That's a lie.

Apparently parents are fools these days and completely unable to actually RAISE their children and require schools to do that for them.

Angie here's a wild idea, YOU are responsible for the raising of your child, not the government, if you want your child to be raised a christian... raise them that way. Don't give them to the government and then get angry when the government doesn't raise them the way you want them to be raised.

When did people decide that the way their children were raised was no longer their responsiblity????

Well said.

 

[Quasarsphere]

If your not Chirstian get out.

I'm a little curious - when, and how, did you get the authority to issue such an order?

 

[SweetAngeline2]

I take offense to you calling all liberals evil. Many liberals are Christian, are they evil too? You are, by extension, calling other members of your faith evil. Why would you say Christians are evil?

liberal Christians are rarely true Christians...they tend to interpret the Bible in whatever way they want. True Christianity involves a literal interpretation, and very few Biblical Literalists are liberal. If you start interpreting the Bible, you can interpret it to fit any agenda/meaning you want! And then where would we be? Liberal Christians pick and choose what they want to believe in literally (Jesus, his death and resurrection, etc.) and what they believe in allegorically (the Creation Story, Noah's Ark, etc). What criteria are they basing this on? They choose what they want to believe in literally, and whatever is at odds with their own personal beliefs must be figurative? That is a corruption of the God's Holy Word. Yes, I do have many problems with liberal "Christians".

 

[SweetAngeline2]

If Christian parents want thier children to have an education that endorses Christianity they also have the option to send them to private schools.

This not a Christian country in the sense of our government. The population, however, has a majority who hold Christian beliefs.

As far as public schools and religion, well they should stay out of it and leave the kids to pray or read the Bible during free time (which they can do).

Private schools are expensive though. For lower or even middle income families, private schools are not even an option because of financial issues. Many households also must have two working parents because of financial problems, so they do not have time to homeschool. These are the children I pray for, the ones who are forced to go to public schools because of monetary problems. It would be wonderful if everyone had the choice as to where to send their children to school, but some simply cannot afford it, and these parents are forced to send their children to schools that are often at odds with their personal beliefs and values. This is what I find very sad.

 

[SweetAngeline2]

Apparently parents are fools these days and completely unable to actually RAISE their children and require schools to do that for them.

Angie here's a wild idea, YOU are responsible for the raising of your child, not the government, if you want your child to be raised a christian... raise them that way. Don't give them to the government and then get angry when the government doesn't raise them the way you want them to be raised.

When did people decide that the way their children were raised was no longer their responsiblity????

The problem is, many Christians feel that, by taking God out of public schools, they are teaching secularism and atheism. So the government is, perhaps untintentinally perhaps not, teaching a specific ideology to children. For example, public schools teach nontheistic evolution, which is just one theory, and goes against the personal values of many Christians. The governemnt is teaching children secularism and perhaps even atheism, which is just as bad as teaching any religion. And don't accuse me of wanting the government to take care of my kids, as I already said, I am choosing to homeschool my child, so I am taking a much more active approach to parenting than most people! Believe me, I wouldn't trust the government with my child!

 

[Vene]

Private schools are expensive though. For lower or even middle income families, private schools are not even an option because of financial issues. Many households also must have two working parents because of financial problems, so they do not have time to homeschool. These are the children I pray for, the ones who are forced to go to public schools because of monetary problems. It would be wonderful if everyone had the choice as to where to send their children to school, but some simply cannot afford it, and these parents are forced to send their children to schools that are often at odds with their personal beliefs and values. This is what I find very sad.

So, you think that non-Christians should shoulder the burden instead of you? That is why the school system is secular, it doesn't make judgments on religions one way or the other. Besides, I thought that was what Sunday School was for.
(I don't know your denomination of Christianity, but I remember hearing that Catholic schools are some of the cheaper private schools)

 

[Vene]

The problem is, many Christians feel that, by taking God out of public schools, they are teaching secularism and atheism.

This is a secular society, what do you expect? And secularism and atheism are different. Atheism is a rejection of faith and secularism is keeping religious ideas separate, but it doesn't say that any religion is right or wrong.

So the government is, perhaps untintentinally perhaps not, teaching a specific ideology to children. For example, public schools teach nontheistic evolution, which is just one theory, and goes against the personal values of many Christians.

It teaches the theory of evolution at face value. As as for just one theory, it is the only scientifically valid theory. If you want to argue creationism go to the Crevo forum.

The governemnt is teaching children secularism and perhaps even atheism, which is just as bad as teaching any religion.

Already addressed.

And don't accuse me of wanting the government to take care of my kids, as I already said, I am choosing to homeschool my child, so I am taking a much more active approach to parenting than most people! Believe me, I wouldn't trust the government with my child!

I don't trust the government period. If you want to homeschool your child that's great. Just a bit of friendly advice, make sure you research a topic before teaching your child about it. (It looks like you have a misunderstanding of what a scientific theory is for one.)

 

[Fin1234]

Education is about learning. There is only so much one person can learn if he is fixed on censoring everything that he thinks is wrong. For instance if I only ever read buddhist material. I wouldn't know about the love of jesus. If I ignored aethiesm my actions which let me experience the world (such as pre-marital sex) would be kept in a box and I would feel cheated of life. And if I read only nilest materials then the world would be very depressing!

You need to understand everything else, before you can call yourself a believer in any path, limiting education does one obvious thing. IT LIMITES YOU. I know and understand calvanist and fundamentalist arguments but I don't believe in them. You don't need to blindly follow text whether it's in a textbook or archaic holy manual. We need to nourish our kids and let them experience this glorious world rather than trapping them in a one way street.

I'm telling you this becuase we have and absoloutly f**king fantastic world out their. It's right out that door. All we have to do is open our minds and we can accept many great and wonderful things.

Free thought is the key to happy life, mind and spirit.

So on that topic..

LIVE LIFE TO THE MAX, NEVER LET YOURSELF FADE!!!

 

[TeddyKGB]

liberal Christians are rarely true Christians...they tend to interpret the Bible in whatever way they want. True Christianity involves a literal interpretation, and very few Biblical Literalists are liberal. If you start interpreting the Bible, you can interpret it to fit any agenda/meaning you want! And then where would we be? Liberal Christians pick and choose what they want to believe in literally (Jesus, his death and resurrection, etc.) and what they believe in allegorically (the Creation Story, Noah's Ark, etc). What criteria are they basing this on? They choose what they want to believe in literally, and whatever is at odds with their own personal beliefs must be figurative? That is a corruption of the God's Holy Word. Yes, I do have many problems with liberal "Christians".

You have a problem with reality. Even if it were true that the words in the Bible transmit some timeless truth when read "literally," the human brain possesses no such capability. We interpret everything we read; that is, in fact, the major part of what it means to read.

No matter how perfect the Bible's message, you are imperfect. And, as Christians are so quick to remind, an imperfect being cannot perfectly apprehend anything.

 

[TeddyKGB]

The problem is, many Christians feel that, by taking God out of public schools, they are teaching secularism and atheism.

This "taking God out of public schools" canard is bizarre, yet so mindlessly repeated that it's clear you folks don't give a second thought to whether it makes a lick of sense.

So the government is, perhaps untintentinally perhaps not, teaching a specific ideology to children. For example, public schools teach nontheistic evolution, which is just one theory, and goes against the personal values of many Christians.

What's the alternative? Theistic evolution? Even most theistic evolutionists would admit that the "theistic" part is not scientific.

The governemnt is teaching children secularism and perhaps even atheism, which is just as bad as teaching any religion.

I am an atheist and a public school teacher. Yet not once have I been accused - by parents, teachers, or administrators - of teaching atheism.

"Teaching secularism" is a complete non-starter. Secularism is not a philosophy in any sense.

 

[The Bellman]

liberal Christians are rarely true Christians...they tend to interpret the Bible in whatever way they want. True Christianity involves a literal interpretation, and very few Biblical Literalists are liberal. If you start interpreting the Bible, you can interpret it to fit any agenda/meaning you want! And then where would we be? Liberal Christians pick and choose what they want to believe in literally (Jesus, his death and resurrection, etc.) and what they believe in allegorically (the Creation Story, Noah's Ark, etc). What criteria are they basing this on? They choose what they want to believe in literally, and whatever is at odds with their own personal beliefs must be figurative? That is a corruption of the God's Holy Word. Yes, I do have many problems with liberal "Christians".

Ah, so you believe that Jesus is a piece of wood? After all, he says he is the doorway. Or do you believe he is a climbing plant? After all, he says he's the true vine.

Obviously, you don't believe either of these things. You don't take the bible literally, either. Like everyone else, you accept that parts of it aren't meant to be taken literally - that they are symbolic in some way. The only difference between you and 'liberal' christians as far as biblical interpretation goes is what areas you take literally and what areas you take symbolically.

Just don't think that your interpretation is in any way categorically different to theirs; it's not.

 

[KalithAlur]

jesus is literally a piece of wood - jesus is god. and jesus is literally a climbing vine, for the same reason. as an omnipresent being, jesus is all things.

 

[Morcova]

liberal Christians are rarely true Christians...

We stand in the company of greatness people! A new prophet of christiaity! And the big man upstairs has given her the authority to say who is and isn't christians!

 

[flicka]

Originally Posted by SweetAngeline2
liberal Christians are rarely true Christians..

We stand in the company of greatness people! A new prophet of christiaity! And the big man upstairs has given her the authority to say who is and isn't christians!

Haha. My first thought was POE...but then she kept talking so now I'm all confused.

 

[SweetAngeline2]

Ah, so you believe that Jesus is a piece of wood? After all, he says he is the doorway. Or do you believe he is a climbing plant? After all, he says he's the true vine.

Obviously, you don't believe either of these things. You don't take the bible literally, either. Like everyone else, you accept that parts of it aren't meant to be taken literally - that they are symbolic in some way. The only difference between you and 'liberal' christians as far as biblical interpretation goes is what areas you take literally and what areas you take symbolically.

Just don't think that your interpretation is in any way categorically different to theirs; it's not.

But no one has answered my real question to liberal Christians: if I believe some parts are just allegory, then how do I know which parts are literal? Maybe the bible is just a philosophical work, and Jesus never really existed, but is merely a symbol for how we are supposed to act? But that's not Christianity at all, that's heresy. So where does one draw the line between literal and allegory, and how does one choose where that line is drawn? If you believe that the Creation Story is allegory, then why do you believe that the story of Jesus is literal?

 

[WatersMoon110]

But no one has answered my real question to liberal Christians: if I believe some parts are just allegory, then how do I know which parts are literal? Maybe the bible is just a philosophical work, and Jesus never really existed, but is merely a symbol for how we are supposed to act? But that's not Christianity at all, that's heresy. So where does one draw the line between literal and allegory, and how does one choose where that line is drawn? If you believe that the Creation Story is allegory, then why do you believe that the story of Jesus is literal?

Maybe it is allegory. The only evidence that Jesus actually existed is in the Bible (all other writings about Him come from, at earliest, 100 years after His death/resurrection).

However, assuming that one still loves all humans, as Jesus told them to, should it matter if they believe that He wasn't ever one man, but rather the aspect of God that existed in multiple prophets or an allegory for how Christians should live their lives?

Not that I believe that liberal Christians don't believe that Jesus existed. All the ones I know believe this. When it comes to differentiating between Biblical allegory and Biblical literals, I believe that many go "well, if it differs from reality, then it isn't supposed to be literal". Like the whole faith/mustard seed/tree thing (since mustard isn't actually a tree).

 

[SweetAngeline2]

Maybe it is allegory. The only evidence that Jesus actually existed is in the Bible (all other writings about Him come from, at earliest, 100 years after His death/resurrection).

However, assuming that one still loves all humans, as Jesus told them to, should it matter if they believe that He wasn't ever one man, but rather the aspect of God that existed in multiple prophets or an allegory for how Christians should live their lives?

Not that I believe that liberal Christians don't believe that Jesus existed. All the ones I know believe this. When it comes to differentiating between Biblical allegory and Biblical literals, I believe that many go "well, if it differs from reality, then it isn't supposed to be literal". Like the whole faith/mustard seed/tree thing (since mustard isn't actually a tree).

So then liberal Christians don't believe in Jesus' resurrection? Because people can't actually be resurrected. But that is one of the few Christian Dogmas, so to deny it would be to commit heresy, so it is certainly not Christian to deny it! I don't mean to sound rude or anything, I am thoroughly confused about how liberal Christians decide their belief system.

 

[WatersMoon110]

So then liberal Christians don't believe in Jesus' resurrection? Because people can't actually be resurrected. But that is one of the few Christian Dogmas, so to deny it would be to commit heresy, so it is certainly not Christian to deny it! I don't mean to sound rude or anything, I am thoroughly confused about how liberal Christians decide their belief system.

I guess it would depend on the Christian. However, there is a difference between believing in miracles (like the resurrection) and believing that God must have created the world in six twenty-four hour periods exactly as it is now because that is "what the Bible says" (with no mention of, you know, how long a day was before the Sun was created, or that God, being an all-powerful being, could make a "day" last as long as He wanted, including for billions of our years).

That God could resurrect Jesus is not in conflict with reality, since God can do whatever He likes (being, you know, God) and since Jesus was the physical incarnation of God.