The Applications of LUCA

[Hans Blaster]

I don't think the dictionary uses it as a pejorative.

I'm talking of the usage of the term here on the CF C&E subforum. When people use it as a pejorative it is a pejorative.

[Think, for example, of the phrase recently banned in the banners that appear on top of our various pages here. It looks from normal usage like a cheer for a person of a particular name, but when considered in a very recent context (and especially when given as an abbreviation) it is a profanity about a particular politician that is banned on this board when none of the component words is by themselves profane, nor would the phrase had such an implication until quite recently.]

I (and others) have said many times that "evolution believer" is a nonsensical notion and we do not care for the term "evolutionist".

 

[AV1611VET]

I (and others) have said many times that "evolution believer" is a nonsensical notion and we do not care for the term "evolutionist".

Someone said this:

I’m still trying to figure out what an ‘evolutionist’ is.

I answered with this:

Dictionary.com = a person who believes in or supports a theory of evolution, especially in biology

Vocabulary.com = an evolutionist is someone who believes that all organic life evolves from generation to generation through a process called natural selection

Collins dictionary = an evolutionist is someone who accepts the scientific theory that all living things evolved from a few simple life forms

Merriam-Webster = a student of or adherent to a theory of evolution

The Free Dictionary = a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species

Lexico.com = a person who believes in the theories of evolution and natural selection

Macmillan Dictionary = someone who believes in and supports the scientific theory of evolution

Jeremiah 2:26 As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,
27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

Let's not make this out to be anything more than a simple Q & A.

 

[Bradskii]

I (and others) have said many times that "evolution believer" is a nonsensical notion and we do not care for the term "evolutionist".

Speaking as a gravity believer and ardent gravitationalist, I tend to agree.

 

[AV1611VET]

Speaking as a gravity believer and ardent gravitationalist, I tend to agree.

I gave seven legitimate dictionary definitions of "evolutionist."

Can you give me just two or three legitimate dictionary definitions of "gravitationalist"?

(Non-perjorative definitions, that is. )

 

[Occams Barber]

I don't think the dictionary uses it as a pejorative.

Unfortunately dictionaries are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to word meanings. There are often shades of meaning which are context related . "Boy" is an example where context can turn it from a simple description of a young male into an extremely offensive term.

You as, usual, are being disingenuous in pretending it is not used, particularly on CF, in its pejorative sense.

From Evolutionism - Wikipedia :

The term is sometimes used (often derogatorily) to denote the theory of evolution...​

...The term evolution is widely used, but the term evolutionism is not used in the scientific community to refer to evolutionary biology as it is redundant and anachronistic.[8]

However, the term has been used by creationists in discussing the creation–evolution controversy.[8] For example, the Institute for Creation Research, in order to imply placement of evolution in the category of 'religions', including atheism, fascism, humanism and occultism, commonly uses the words evolutionism and evolutionist to describe the consensus of mainstream science and the scientists subscribing to it, thus implying through language that the issue is a matter of religious belief.
​

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

Unfortunately dictionaries are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to word meanings.

That's not a reason to abstain from using them to educate someone who doesn't know the meaning of a word.

There are often shades of meaning which are context related. "Boy" is an example where context can turn it from a simple description of a young male into an extremely offensive term.

I would like to think that people would want to know the non-offensive meaning first, rather than the offensive one; wouldn't you?

Is there anyone in your family that doesn't know what a boy is?

 

[AV1611VET]

From Evolutionism - Wikipedia :

The term is sometimes used (often derogatorily) to denote the theory of evolution...​

Why am I not surprised at this, when "White Christmas" is considered offensive as well?

 

[ruthiesea]

Dictionary.com = a person who believes in or supports a theory of evolution, especially in biology

Vocabulary.com = an evolutionist is someone who believes that all organic life evolves from generation to generation through a process called natural selection

Collins dictionary = an evolutionist is someone who accepts the scientific theory that all living things evolved from a few simple life forms

Merriam-Webster = a student of or adherent to a theory of evolution

The Free Dictionary = a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species

Lexico.com = a person who believes in the theories of evolution and natural selection

Macmillan Dictionary = someone who believes in and supports the scientific theory of evolution

Jeremiah 2:26 As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,
27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

No one believes in ToE. It is a fact that ToE is a valid scientific theory with all of the attributes of a valid scientific theory. Science is not a belief system. So, there is no ‘believing’ involved. In fact, as with any theory, it is continuously tested for validity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well ... here we go again.

No one believes in ToE.

QV please:

BELIEVE

Merriam-Webster = to accept or regard (something) as true

Dictionary.com = to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to

Cambridge Dictionary = to think that something is true, correct, or real:

Wiktionary = to hold dear, valuable, or satisfactory, approve of, believe

Vocabulary.com = belief doesn’t require proof, just acceptance

Lexico Dictionary = accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of

The Free Dictionary = to accept as true or real; to credit with veracity

 

[Occams Barber]

Well ... here we go again.
QV please:

BELIEVE

Merriam-Webster = to accept or regard (something) as true

Dictionary.com = to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to

Cambridge Dictionary = to think that something is true, correct, or real:

Wiktionary = to hold dear, valuable, or satisfactory, approve of, believe

Vocabulary.com = belief doesn’t require proof, just acceptance

Lexico Dictionary = accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of

The Free Dictionary = to accept as true or real; to credit with veracity

And here we go again with another lesson in semantics.

'Believe' is a word i avoid like the plague around CF. I avoid it because many Christians use 'belief' to describe their acceptance of Christian dogma etc. without proof.

So, for instance, if I were to say I 'believe in' evolution it can be (and has been) interpreted as being akin to Christian belief. This is one of the factors leading to the insistence by less informed CFers, that evolution (or science in general) is a religion. They attempt to equate a Christian specific understanding of 'belief' with it's broader meaning.

Belief in evolution or science is normally based on evidence, however using this term in a Christian context results in accidental and intentional misunderstandings.

When using words context often changes meaning.

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

'Believe' is a word I avoid like the plague around CF.

Avoid it all you want.

It doesn't justify this doosey of a statement:

No one believes in ToE.

That's taking avoidance to a new level.

"Well I think I'm gonna reroute my trip.
I wonder if everybody would think I've flipped,
If I went to LA ... via Omaha."

Uneasy Rider, The Charlie Daniels Band, 1973

 

[Hans Blaster]

'Believe' is a word i avoid like the plague around CF. I avoid it because many Christians use 'belief' to describe their acceptance of Christian dogma etc. without proof.

Seconded.

 

[Astrid]

Seconded.

Thirdated

 

[AV1611VET]

Thirdated

So far the score is 3 to 8.

THREE:

1. Occams Barber
2. Hans Blaster
3. Estrid

EIGHT:

1. AV1611VET
2. Merriam-Webster
3. Dictionary.com
4. Cambridge Dictionary
5. Wiktionary
6. Vocabulary.com
7. Lexico Dictionary
8. The Free Dictionary

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

[Hans Blaster]

So far the score is 3 to 8.

THREE:

1. Occams Barber
2. Hans Blaster
3. Estrid

EIGHT:

1. AV1611VET
2. Merriam-Webster
3. Dictionary.com
4. Cambridge Dictionary
5. Wiktionary
6. Vocabulary.com
7. Lexico Dictionary
8. The Free Dictionary

Anyone else want to chime in?

So 8 books versus 3 people? (OK, 2 people and one DL-44)

 

[AV1611VET]

So 8 books versus 3 people? (OK, 2 people and one DL-44)

That's about the caliber of it.

 

[Frank Robert]

I gave seven legitimate dictionary definitions of "evolutionist."

The word "belief" has many connotations.

be·lief
/bəˈlēf/
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
"we're prepared to fight for our beliefs"
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"I've still got belief in myself"​

To say that an evolutionist believes in evolution is to say that he/she accepts it as true or real. Since science doesn't claim to be true the connotation of belief for a scientist or knowledgeable people would be "to accept evolution as real."

 

[AV1611VET]

The word "belief" has many connotations.

So far the odds are 3 to 8 against your position, Frank.

To say that an evolutionist believes in evolution is to say that he/she accepts it as true or real.

Accept:

Merriam-Webster = to recognize as true : believe

Macmillan = believe something is true/right

Cambridge = to believe that something is true:

Collins = If you accept an idea, statement, or fact, you believe that it is true or valid.

Lexico = believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct

The Free Dictionary = To regard as true; believe in: Scientists have accepted the new theory.

Wiktionary = to regard as proper, usual, true, or to believe in

 

[Frank Robert]

So far the odds are 3 to 8 against your position, Frank.Accept:

Merriam-Webster = to recognize as true : believe

Macmillan = believe something is true/right

Cambridge = to believe that something is true:

Collins = If you accept an idea, statement, or fact, you believe that it is true or valid.

Lexico = believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct

The Free Dictionary = To regard as true; believe in: Scientists have accepted the new theory.

Wiktionary = to regard as proper, usual, true, or to believe in

It appears you unaware of the meaning of a connotation.
Connotation: an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning.
I am not arguing against the dictionary definition of belief. A religious believer claims truth of their deity, a scientist accepts/affirms the reality of evolution not that it is true. It is the same reason that many of the religious posters on this forum fail to differentiate between belief and scientific evidence.

Collins = If you accept an idea, statement, or fact, you believe that it is true or valid.

Lexico = believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct
Wiktionary = to regard as proper, usual, true, or to believe in

Notice the use of the adjective "or" in the above. There is no "true" in science theories. It is evidence that provides the provisional validity of a scientific theory which means temporary in nature. Would you claim that your belief in God is "temporary in nature?"

The Free Dictionary = To regard as true; believe in: Scientists have accepted the new theory.

Notice that the connotation of belief is "accepted the new theory" not "believed a new theory."
Your word games do not prove your point.

 

[AV1611VET]

Notice that the connotation of belief is "accepted the new theory" not "believed a new theory."
Your word games do not prove your point.

If you expect me to believe this statement:

No one believes in ToE.

... don't waste your time.