The Applications of LUCA

Aussie Pete

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You should not be ridiculed but you are wrong. The evidences of evolution do not rest on how life began. However life began through natural or supernatural means does not erase the good evidence we have that supports evolution. It is like my daughter eating a lollipop. The fact that I do not know how the lollipop was made does not negate the fact that she is eating a lollipop.
"Good evidence"? Rubbish. Even if I accept your premise, evolution fails on countless levels. I won't try and argue as I've made my case many times before. I won't convince you and you won't convince.
 
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ruthiesea

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"Good evidence"? Rubbish. Even if I accept your premise, evolution fails on countless levels. I won't try and argue as I've made my case many times before. I won't convince you and you won't convince.
If you can show how evolution fails and disprove ToE please tell how and then collect your Nobel Prize.
 
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Shemjaza

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"Good evidence"? Rubbish. Even if I accept your premise, evolution fails on countless levels. I won't try and argue as I've made my case many times before. I won't convince you and you won't convince.
You really haven't.
 
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Aussie Pete

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You really haven't.
"You really haven't" is not a scientific refutation of the arguments against evolution. Still, that's about what I expect. It's similar to the "just so happened" and "evolution is true so it must have evolved" arguments.
 
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Shemjaza

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"You really haven't" is not a scientific refutation of the arguments against evolution. Still, that's about what I expect. It's similar to the "just so happened" and "evolution is true so it must have evolved" arguments.
No, it's not.

What it is, is a response to you simply asserting that you have already made your case against the evidence for evolution.

How do I even format a scientific refutation to "It's not true! Cause I already said so!"?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Then science will chime in and say:

"The Flood didn't happen, because it was a miracle we would expect to see evidence."
If you're seriously suggesting that even world-changing miracles need not leave any evidence, and the world can be exactly as it would be had they never happened, it makes such miracle claims unverifiable, makes the miracles themselves pointless, and means anyone can claim any old tosh happened and miraculously left no trace.

Other than that, it's a great idea...
 
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Frank Robert

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"You really haven't" is not a scientific refutation of the arguments against evolution. Still, that's about what I expect. It's similar to the "just so happened" and "evolution is true so it must have evolved" arguments.
Sounds like you have fallen hock, line and sinker for creationists' fairy tails when in fact the theory of evolution is supported by a convergence of evidence from genetics, molecular biology, paleontology, geology, biogeography, comparative anatomy, comparative physiology, and many other fields.
Evidence for evolution
Key points:

  • Evidence for large-scale evolution (macroevolution) comes from anatomy and embryology, molecular biology, biogeography, and fossils.
  • Similar anatomy found in different species may be homologous (shared due to ancestry) or analogous (shared due to similar selective pressures).
  • Molecular similarities provide evidence for the shared ancestry of life. DNA sequence comparisons can show how different species are related.
  • Biogeography, the study of the geographical distribution of organisms, provides information about how and when species may have evolved.
  • Fossils provide evidence of long-term evolutionary changes, documenting the past existence of species that are now extinct.
 
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AV1611VET

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... and means anyone can claim any old tosh happened and miraculously left no trace.
The more nobler ones know what to do in such cases.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 
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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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If there was a world wide flood God did an superb job of hiding the evidence.
Interesting word choice; it speaks volumes.

"Hiding"? or "removing"?
 
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Estrid

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"Good evidence"? Rubbish. Even if I accept your premise, evolution fails on countless levels. I won't try and argue as I've made my case many times before. I won't convince you and you won't convince.
You have convinced yourself with your " case" only because your
mind is as you said, sealed against change.
And of course, against learning enough to understand that
your " case" is rubbish.
 
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AV1611VET

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And faking all the proof that there was no flood.
See the difference now, Frank?

God cleaned up His mess.

He didn't "hide the evidence."

Noah had a world to repopulate in a very short time.

And dead and decaying animals everywhere would have been unsanitary, to say the least.
 
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Estrid

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"You really haven't" is not a scientific refutation of the arguments against evolution. Still, that's about what I expect. It's similar to the "just so happened" and "evolution is true so it must have evolved" arguments.

Are you really - really confident that you know more than any scientist
on earth?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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"Good evidence"? Rubbish. Even if I accept your premise, evolution fails on countless levels. I won't try and argue as I've made my case many times before. I won't convince you and you won't convince.
It is sad that you have made up your mind that you won't be convinced no matter what evidence is provided. My stance is I want to believe what is true and what is false as best I can. If evolution is not true I want to know that. I have evaluated the evidence for evolution and I found it convincing. How do you explain that ~95% of biologists are convinced evolution is true? What evidence do you have that they don't?
 
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Estrid

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It is sad that you have made up your mind that you won't be convinced no matter what evidence is provided. My stance is I want to believe what is true and what is false as best I can. If evolution is not true I want to know that. I have evaluated the evidence for evolution and I found it convincing. How do you explain that ~95% of biologists are convinced evolution is true? What evidence do you have that they don't?

" believe no matter what" pretty much defines intellectual dishonesty.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Sounds like you have fallen hock, line and sinker for creationists' fairy tails when in fact the theory of evolution is supported by a convergence of evidence from genetics, molecular biology, paleontology, geology, biogeography, comparative anatomy, comparative physiology, and many other fields.
Evidence for evolution
Key points:

  • Evidence for large-scale evolution (macroevolution) comes from anatomy and embryology, molecular biology, biogeography, and fossils.
  • Similar anatomy found in different species may be homologous (shared due to ancestry) or analogous (shared due to similar selective pressures).
  • Molecular similarities provide evidence for the shared ancestry of life. DNA sequence comparisons can show how different species are related.
  • Biogeography, the study of the geographical distribution of organisms, provides information about how and when species may have evolved.
  • Fossils provide evidence of long-term evolutionary changes, documenting the past existence of species that are now extinct.
Nup, don't buy any of it. I've been over this subject too many times.

Just one of a number of resources I refer to. CEH – Creation Evolution Headlines

Also........
The Elephant in the Living Room
Writer George V. Caylor interviewed Sam, a molecular biologist. George asked Sam about his work. Sam said he and his team were scientific detectives, working with DNA and tracking down the cause of disease. Here is their published conversation.
G: “Sounds like pretty complicated work.”
S: “You can’t imagine how complicated!”
G: “Try me.”
S: “I’m a bit like an editor, trying to find a spelling mistake inside a document larger than four complete sets of Encyclopedia Britannica. Seventy volumes, thousands and thousands of pages of small print words.”
G: “With the computer power, you can just use ‘spell check’!”
S: “There is no ‘spell check’ because we don’t know yet how
the words are supposed to be spelled. We don’t even know
for sure which language. And it’s not just the ‘spelling error’
we’re looking for. If any of the punctuation is out of place, or
a space out of place, or a grammatical error, we have a
mutation that will cause a disease.”
G: “So how do you do it?”
S: “We are learning as we go. We have already ‘read’ over two articles in that encyclopedia, and located some typos. It should get easier as time goes by.”
G: “How did all that information happen to get there?”
S: “Do you mean, did it just happen? Did it evolve?”
G: “Bingo. Do you believe that the information evolved?”
S: “George, nobody I know in my profession truly believes it evolved. It was engineered by ‘genius beyond genius,’ and such information could not have been written any other way. The paper and ink did not write the book. Knowing what we know, it is ridiculous to think otherwise. A bit like Neil Armstrong believing the moon is made of green cheese. He’s been there!”
G: “Have you ever stated that in a public lecture, or in any public writings?”
S: “No. It all just evolved.”
G: “What? You just told me —?”
S: “Just stop right there. To be a molecular biologist requires one to hold on to two insanities at all times. One, it would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself. Two, it would be insane to say you don’t believe in evolution. All government work, research grants, papers, big college lectures—everything would stop. I’d be out of a job, or relegated to the outer fringes where I couldn’t earn a decent living.” [emphasis added]
G: “I hate to say it, Sam, but that sounds intellectually
dishonest.”
S: “The work I do in genetic research is honorable. We will find the cures to many of mankind’s worst diseases. But in the meantime, we have to live with the ‘elephant in the living room’.”
G: “What elephant?”
S: “Design. It’s like the elephant in the living room. It moves around, takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay, and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn’t there!”
 
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