the apostasy, king of the north, and the tribulation

[RandyPNW]

I don't personally interpret Dan 11 as anything to do with the endtimes. It is, in my view, talking about the era in which the Roman Empire rises to bring great tribulation to the Jewish People, following the evil reign of Antiochus 4. The King of the North was the Syrian king who ultimately tried to destroy true worship in Israel. The Maccabbees overthrew him.

Nor do I call the Reign of Antichrist, mentioned in Dan 7, the "Tribulation Period." No, the Tribulation, according to the Scriptures, refers to the desolation of the Jewish People in the NT era, beginning in 70 AD. That's when Jewish Christians suffered from their unbelieving Jewish brethren as well as from pagan Gentiles. And the process has continued in all nations with Christians from every culture.

The Reign of Antichrist is 3.5 years and has nothing to do with Daniel's 70th Week, mentioned in Dan 9. His reign is depicted in Dan 7 as being an attempt to subvert God's worship and to prevent the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth.

That is what Paul is calling the "apostasy," which must take place before the Son of Man comes from heaven to defeat him and to deliver the saints. Paul refers, in 2 Thes 2, to the order of events in Dan 7, which places the apostasy of Antichrist directly before the coming of the Son of Man. Christ cannot come back to deliver the Church unless the Antichrist is revealed first. Then he will return to defeat him.

Paul is concerned, just like Jesus was, that false prophets will make this scenario unclear to Chrsitians. Paul wants Christians to expect falsehoods and misconceptions of the Kingdom so that we do not fall into it, turning from the true God to false gods.

Christians in Paul's day were actually believing that Christ's Kingdom had already come, and that they were presenting it in their particular cult. Obviously, that would have to rationalize away the sin that is still on the earth, and render Christians unable to see the true dangers that continue to exist on earth until Christ comes back from heaven.

 

[AlexB23]

I don't personally interpret Dan 11 as anything to do with the endtimes. It is, in my view, talking about the era in which the Roman Empire rises to bring great tribulation to the Jewish People, following the evil reign of Antiochus 4. The King of the North was the Syrian king who ultimately tried to destroy true worship in Israel. The Maccabbees overthrew him.

Nor do I call the Reign of Antichrist, mentioned in Dan 7, the "Tribulation Period." No, the Tribulation, according to the Scriptures, refers to the desolation of the Jewish People in the NT era, beginning in 70 AD. That's when Jewish Christians suffered from their unbelieving Jewish brethren as well as from pagan Gentiles. And the process has continued in all nations with Christians from every culture.

The Reign of Antichrist is 3.5 years and has nothing to do with Daniel's 70th Week, mentioned in Dan 9. His reign is depicted in Dan 7 as being an attempt to subvert God's worship and to prevent the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth.

That is what Paul is calling the "apostasy," which must take place before the Son of Man comes from heaven to defeat him and to deliver the saints. Paul refers, in 2 Thes 2, to the order of events in Dan 7, which places the apostasy of Antichrist directly before the coming of the Son of Man. Christ cannot come back to deliver the Church unless the Antichrist is revealed first. Then he will return to defeat him.

Paul is concerned, just like Jesus was, that false prophets will make this scenario unclear to Chrsitians. Paul wants Christians to expect falsehoods and misconceptions of the Kingdom so that we do not fall into it, turning from the true God to false gods.

Christians in Paul's day were actually believing that Christ's Kingdom had already come, and that they were presenting it in their particular cult. Obviously, that would have to rationalize away the sin that is still on the earth, and render Christians unable to see the true dangers that continue to exist on earth until Christ comes back from heaven.

How about the Jewish persecution in the 1930s-1940s? Could that be a sign of the End Times, as c. 1940 is much closer to the end in the long scheme of things? It seems that Jewish persecution has been a constant from the beginnings of Judaism and even now.

 

[Douggg]

I don't personally interpret Dan 11 as anything to do with the endtimes.

Daniel 11 transitions to the time of the end in Daniel 11:35. The remaining verses in Daniel 11:36-12:13 are time of the end.

We are living in those days.

 

[WIN_RUN]

Daniel 11 transitions to the time of the end in Daniel 11:35. The remaining verses in Daniel 11:36-12:13 are time of the end.

We are living in those days.

I agree we are living in those days. I love how GOD is able to show us warnings on what to look out for in the end times and that is able to be applied to the in between generations at certain times. Example being the existence of multiple anti-Christ in history; we just need to look out for THE anti-Christ.

 

[Douggg]

I agree we are living in those days. I love how GOD is able to show us warnings on what to look out for in the end times and that is able to be applied to the in between generations at certain times. Example being the existence of multiple anti-Christ in history; we just need to look out for THE anti-Christ.

Determining who that person is - is a challenge.

I think the first indicator will be when he becomes leader over a group of ten EU leaders. i.e. as the little horn person. And he will have to be a Jew, of course.

 

[DennisF]

How about the Jewish persecution in the 1930s-1940s? Could that be a sign of the End Times, as c. 1940 is much closer to the end in the long scheme of things? It seems that Jewish persecution has been a constant from the beginnings of Judaism and even now.

If I might add, people called "Jews" came into Western cognizance in the Middle Ages, when people from Khazaria (now reduced to Khazakstan) migrated west into Europe along with the Hungarians. Whether these people are ethnic Israelites (of the tribe of Judahites) or whether they are Khazars (Turks) converted to Judaism is a live controversy today. This question of who are the Jews ethnically is logically antecedent to your discussion and should be answered first.