The Adam and Eve are in devorce, so it is time to revise the Methodology of Science

[Aman777]

Claiming that you refuted something, does not make it so.

Amen, from someone who has "defeated" dad, Scripturally.

it's ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is the Fact that NO evolutionist can explain the process by which mindless Nature installed God's superior intelligence into Apes. Can you?

 

[DogmaHunter]

The 315k is not the consensus scientists think the first fully human lived. The date is some 195,000 years ago. Scientists making this dating did not know the difference between the sons of God (prehistoric people) and Humans (descendants of Adam) This ignorance is caused by their inability to understand Genesis.

Newsflash, Aman....

Books don't decide how old certain things are and what the difference is between biological specimen.

Not so, unless you can show us another Ark which brought Humans with the superior intelligence of God Genesis 3:22 to this planet. What it proves is that mindless Nature does NOT magically insert God's superior intelligence into Apes. Prove me wrong and have a kitty cat call me.

Newsflash, Aman...

Books don't prove anything.

Kind like classifying rocks and sticks as "tools". The traits of modern Humans are farming, building, smelting, etc which happened on Adam's Earth long before those traits appeared on the present Earth. Read Genesis 4. Animals don't farm, build cities, nor smelt. Never have, Never will. Only Humans do and they arrived in the Ark 11,000 years ago in the mountains of Ararat. That's God's Truth

So, you're claiming that there are no instances of farming, building etc, older then 11k years ago?

Will you double down on that falsehood as well?

 

[Aman777]

So, you're claiming that there are no instances of farming, building etc, older then 11k years ago?

Will you double down on that falsehood as well?

You got it, but scientists seeking grants don't count. Why do you think they call Mesopotamia the Cradle of Civilization on this Earth? Could it be because farming, city building and other traits of modern Humans were first shown there? Of course it is.

Wiki:>>Mesopotamia is the site of the earliest developments of the Neolithic Revolution from around 10,000 BC. It has been identified as having "inspired some of the most important developments in human history including the invention of the wheel, the planting of the first cereal crops and the development of cursive script, mathematics, astronomy and agriculture".[2]

 

[DogmaHunter]

What is ridiculous is the Fact that NO evolutionist can explain the process by which mindless Nature installed God's superior intelligence into Apes. Can you?

Mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat.

(I am, off course, ignoring your ridiculous and baseless terminology)

 

[Aman777]

Mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat.

Now tell us HOW mindless Nature installed the highest form of intelligence into Apes since the ONLY way to change an Ape's brain internally, is through inheritance. Tell us of this magical ability of Nature to produce God's superior intelligence in Apes, Genesis 3:22 which changes them into the descendants of Adam. You cannot. God told us in Genesis. Want to see?

 

[DogmaHunter]

You got it, but scientists seeking grants don't count. Why do you think they call Mesopotamia the Cradle of Civilization on this Earth? Could it be because farming, city building and other traits of modern Humans were first shown there? Of course it is.

Wiki:>>Mesopotamia is the site of the earliest developments of the Neolithic Revolution from around 10,000 BC. It has been identified as having "inspired some of the most important developments in human history including the invention of the wheel, the planting of the first cereal crops and the development of cursive script, mathematics, astronomy and agriculture".[2]

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago: Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago
Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation



Caves of Greece: Theopetra Cave

In 2010 an important discovery was made in this cave, a wall which was built 23,000 years ago, which means it is the oldest known human-built structure so far.



OEPS!

 

[DogmaHunter]

Now tell us HOW mindless Nature installed the highest form of intelligence into Apes since the ONLY way to change an Ape's brain internally, is through inheritance.

I already told you.
Mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat.

The "mutate" step = reproduction with modification
The "survive" step = natural selection
The "reproduce" step = natural selection + the passing on of (mutated) genes to the next generation, this is the inheritance part

The "repeat" step = do this over and over and over and.... over again, which accumulates the mutations in the genes of off spring.

Tell us of this magical ability of Nature

There's nothing "magical" about it.
It's a pretty simple process...

to produce God's superior intelligence in Apes

You keep calling it that, but it doesn't mean anything.
Yes, humans are intelligent apes. So what?
Cheetah's are fast felines. .

Genesis 3:22 which changes them into the descendants of Adam. You cannot. God told us in Genesis. Want to see?

No, indeed, I cannot support your religious fantasies with evidence.
That's because your religious fantasies are just that: fantasies.

 

[Freodin]

Kind like classifying rocks and sticks as "tools". The traits of modern Humans are farming, building, smelting, etc which happened on Adam's Earth long before those traits appeared on the present Earth. Read Genesis 4. Animals don't farm, build cities, nor smelt. Never have, Never will. Only Humans do and they arrived in the Ark 11,000 years ago in the mountains of Ararat. That's God's Truth

Classifying carefully processed and adapted rocks and sticks as "tools"... that what archeologists have become very good at over time.

But it is interesting that you lament how those "animals" that lived on earth did not "plant" for the millions of years they lived on earth.

Well... true. They didn't plant crops. But they raised livestock, for several thousand years before your "descendants of Adam" alledgedly came to Earth in your story. Animals don't do that, right?
They used elaborate tools tens of thousands of years before your "descendants of Adam". Animals don't do that. They created paintings, left evidence of rituals, of culture, tens of thousands of years earlier than your "descendants of Adam." Animals don't do that.

No, only humans do that.

But humans "farm, build cities and smelt. Things that they already did on Adam's Earth "long before those traits appeared on the present Earth".
So it is quite strange that things like "smelting metal" did not appear on this earth several thousand years after these super-intelligent humans came to this earth and started to build cities.

 

[Freodin]

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago: Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago
Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation

See... this is what happens when you don't listen to what "all of history and science" says, and keep to your own imagination (or don't stay up to date in science.)

I hadn't heard of that, so I still used the old 12,000 years ago data... which already would disprove Aman777. But they way he throws around big numbers... what's a few thousand years, give or take?

I'm quite sure that, after people have forgotten this thread, he will now claim that the magic space ark landed 13,000 years ago, and that all of history and science and God's word always declared that this was correct.

 

[Aman777]

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago: Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation
First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago
Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation

Caves of Greece: Theopetra Cave
In 2010 an important discovery was made in this cave, a wall which was built 23,000 years ago, which means it is the oldest known human-built structure so far.
OEPS!

A new tourist attraction where the paws of ancient Apes scruffed up the ground and weeds grew. Oh boy. Looks like Human fishermen to me OR some hungry fish eating Ape? Limestone Caves with walls can be found for millions of years into the past. After the "discovery" the cave closed. Not enough tourists, I suspect.

 

[Aman777]

Classifying carefully processed and adapted rocks and sticks as "tools"... that what archeologists have become very good at over time.

I've been to the Smithsonian and I've see photos of these "tools". It's common with Chimps who fish for termites and it's evidence of animal intelligence.

But it is interesting that you lament how those "animals" that lived on earth did not "plant" for the millions of years they lived on earth.

Well... true. They didn't plant crops. But they raised livestock, for several thousand years before your "descendants of Adam" alledgedly came to Earth in your story. Animals don't do that, right?

The first Human farming on this Earth was in Mesopotamia. Noah planted some grapes, got drunk and naked and thus PROVED himself to be a Human. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were more intelligent than Apes BUT did not inherit the superior intelligence of Adam Genesis 3:22 until they produced offspring with a Human who was identical to themselves AFTER the fall. Today's Humans are the result. Genesis 6:3

They used elaborate tools tens of thousands of years before your "descendants of Adam". Animals don't do that. They created paintings, left evidence of rituals, of culture, tens of thousands of years earlier than your "descendants of Adam." Animals don't do that.

No, only humans do that.

False, since the sons of God (prehistoric people) did those things but they were NOT Humans as today's science has classified them.

But humans "farm, build cities and smelt. Things that they already did on Adam's Earth "long before those traits appeared on the present Earth".

So it is quite strange that things like "smelting metal" did not appear on this earth several thousand years after these super-intelligent humans came to this earth and started to build cities.

Why? Humankind had to start all over again after Adam's world was destroyed. Noah obviously didn't bring a smelter with him. Amen?

 

[Freodin]

I've been to the Smithsonian and I've see photos of these "tools". It's common with Chimps who fish for termites and it's evidence of animal intelligence.

Yeah, how "primitive". Well, I don't know about Chimps - who indeed use sticks as tools - but I would like to see you, with your superior intelligence to produce one of these ancient stone tools.

The first Human farming on this Earth was in Mesopotamia. Noah planted some grapes, got drunk and naked and thus PROVED himself to be a Human. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were more intelligent than Apes BUT did not inherit the superior intelligence of Adam Genesis 3:22 until they produced offspring with a Human who was identical to themselves AFTER the fall. Today's Humans are the result. Genesis 6:3

Which, of course, is not based on the biblical text. Which doesn't make any statement about the existence, origin or intelligence level of (other) humans.

False, since the sons of God (prehistoric people) did those things but they were NOT Humans as today's science has classified them.

"Today's science" classifies modern human as having been around for at least 300,000 years. But I guess only science that agrees with you is "real science", right?

Why? Humankind had to start all over again after Adam's world was destroyed. Noah obviously didn't bring a smelter with him. Amen?

How convenient. Everything that supports your postion is accepted... everything that disagrees is simply forgotten.

Do you have a clue why metal working took on so fast after it was discovered? Because it is - in contrast to stone tools - very simple to do, superior in every regard and highly convenient. As long as you know how to do it. Which drunk Noah conveniently forgot. So for several thousand years, his descendants had to build their cities and farm their fields with the same tools that a chimp would use... right?

Superior intelligence. Sorry, I can't stop laughing. I said it several times before: it is amazing what a low opinion some Christians have about their supreme deity... and each time you type something, you only comfirm it.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>The first Human farming on this Earth was in Mesopotamia. Noah planted some grapes, got drunk and naked Genesis 9:21 and thus PROVED himself to be a Human. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were more intelligent than Apes BUT did not inherit the superior intelligence of Adam Genesis 3:22 until they produced offspring with a Human who was identical to themselves AFTER the fall. Today's Humans are the result. Genesis 6:3

Which, of course, is not based on the biblical text. Which doesn't make any statement about the existence, origin or intelligence level of (other) humans.

Amen, since Genesis doesn't tell atheists, agnostics and phonies anything since they view it as "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 Did you notice the light blue link? Look back at what you claimed "is not based on the biblical text" and follow the light blue links. This will help you with your false accusations against others. I will be happy to explain the verses to you since you won't be able to understand.

"Today's science" classifies modern human as having been around for at least 300,000 years. But I guess only science that agrees with you is "real science", right?

No, since History records the FIRST Human farming in Northern Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, the Cradle of Human Civilization on this planet. It's in the valleys sw of Lake Van, Turkey, where the Ark arrived.

How convenient. Everything that supports your postion is accepted... everything that disagrees is simply forgotten.

False accusation since I support what I write with the agreement of Scripture science and history. You can't do that by insisting that your half/truth is all there is.

Superior intelligence. Sorry, I can't stop laughing. I said it several times before: it is amazing what a low opinion some Christians have about their supreme deity... and each time you type something, you only comfirm it.

You're confused. Humans (descendants of Adam) have inherited Adam's superior intelligence which is like God's. Genesis 3:22 Only God and Humans have the ability to judge between good and evil. It's because Humans are destined to have dominion or rule over every other living creature after Jesus returns. Genesis 1:28 Angels are included. 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

 

[Freodin]

Amen, since Genesis doesn't tell atheists, agnostics and phonies anything since they view it as "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 Did you notice the light blue link? Look back at what you claimed "is not based on the biblical text" and follow the light blue links. This will help you with your false accusations against others. I will be happy to explain the verses to you since you won't be able to understand.

I'd say you are getting desperate.
You cannot claim that all of scripture, history and science supports you, and then when we point out that this isn't true simply claim that we simple do not understand it.

See, what you wrote isn't based on the biblical texts. It is not that we need some kind of magic prophet stones to read them... they are there, freely accessable for each of us. And even if, for some "spiritual" reason, we don't understand them correctly... it is still quite easy to see what they say and what they don't say.

No, since History records the FIRST Human farming in Northern Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, the Cradle of Human Civilization on this planet. It's in the valleys sw of Lake Van, Turkey, where the Ark arrived.

Well, History also records the FIRST Human powered flight in North Carolina. That doesn't mean that there weren't any "Humans" around before that, who did other stuff.

And it is rather the same with modern humans. Yes, first evidence of farming comes from Mesopotamia. It was done by the "modern humans", Homo Sapiens, who lived there at the time.
Other things have been done by other "modern humans", from the same species, and, given the known human mobility, perhaps even some ancestors of those first farmers, in other areas a long time before that.

This is what "today's science" says. You cannot simply take the parts you like and ignore the rest.

False accusation since I support what I write with the agreement of Scripture science and history. You can't do that by insisting that your half/truth is all there is.

And there it is again... you claim to have the agreement of "Scripture science and history"... but as soon as you are shown that neither science nor scripture nor history agree with you, you retreat into baseless accusations.

You're confused. Humans (descendants of Adam) have inherited Adam's superior intelligence which is like God's. Genesis 3:22 Only God and Humans have the ability to judge between good and evil. It's because Humans are destined to have dominion or rule over every other living creature after Jesus returns. Genesis 1:28 Angels are included. 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

So this "superior intelligence" does ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY influence the ability to judge between good and evil? In every other regard, it is on the very same level as the "animal intelligence"?

And you wonder why I say that you have a very low opinion of your own God?

 

[Aman777]

See, what you wrote isn't based on the biblical texts. It is not that we need some kind of magic prophet stones to read them... they are there, freely accessable for each of us. And even if, for some "spiritual" reason, we don't understand them correctly... it is still quite easy to see what they say and what they don't say.

Unbelievers cannot understand Scripture because they cannot understand what God the Holy Spirit wrote, 1Co 2:14 unless He's inside them and unless they live in the last days of this Earth. Daniel 12:4 A good example is the Scriptural Fact that God made one Heaven on the 2nd Day Genesis 1:8 and Lord God/Jesus made other Heavens/Universes on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4. See?

Well, History also records the FIRST Human powered flight in North Carolina. That doesn't mean that there weren't any "Humans" around before that, who did other stuff.

Current Science claims that Humans diverged from Chimps 6 million years ago, but that is impossible since Humans (descendants of Adam) arrived on planet Earth only 11k years ago. History records the FIRST HUMAN farming, city building, and every other trait of modern Humans originated in the Cradle of Civilization, Mesopotamia. That's the land between the mouth of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, in the valleys just SW of Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat, where Noah's Ark arrived.

 

[Freodin]

Unbelievers cannot understand Scripture because they cannot understand what God the Holy Spirit wrote, 1Co 2:14 unless He's inside them and unless they live in the last days of this Earth. Daniel 12:4 A good example is the Scriptural Fact that God made one Heaven on the 2nd Day Genesis 1:8 and Lord God/Jesus made other Heavens/Universes on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4. See?

Yes, I see what you do here. You make up your own stories and try to defuse any potential criticism with "you don't understand because you don't use my holy decoder ring".

It's very convenient for you.

Say, what do you do when you are faced with believers, who tell you that there is no way that humans landed on Earth 11,000 years ago, because the world is only 6000 years old, and that Noah's flood happened only 4000 years ago? They obviously don't have your exclusive version of the Holy Spirit, right?

Current Science claims that Humans diverged from Chimps 6 million years ago, but that is impossible since Humans (descendants of Adam) arrived on planet Earth only 11k years ago. History records the FIRST HUMAN farming, city building, and every other trait of modern Humans originated in the Cradle of Civilization, Mesopotamia. That's the land between the mouth of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, in the valleys just SW of Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat, where Noah's Ark arrived.

So what you write is "in agreement with science"... except when it isn't, and then science is wrong.

But you cannot even keep up this already incoherent standard.

There are a few problems with your statement... several problems in a single statement. Quite a feat.

So, "HISTORY" does not RECORD the first human farming, city building and every other trait of modern humans. What we do have are the as yet earliest remains of what these humans farmed, build and otherwise did. For some of these things, these datings are quite precise. For others, as DogmaHunter has shown in his link, these dates have already been corrected backwards by a few thousand years.

Next, history does not record the deeds of "FIRST HUMANS"... just the oldest remains we have of certain human activities. There are records of the first powered flight made by humans... but that doesn't mean that these were the First Humans. There is no reason to assume that extraterrestial humans landed on earth in 1903 and build a plywood and canvas plane. There are a lot of reasons to assume that these folks were humans, just as their parents and grandparents and ancestors before them... who didn't have any idea of how to fly.
And it is the same with farming, city building and every other trait of modern humans. Some human did that first, but their parents, grandparents and ancestors were just as human who just had not idea of how to do these things. (That is not a precise description how human inventiveness and developement works, but just a parallel to the previous paragraph.)

Next, history does not record that the first human farming, city building AND EVERY OTHER TRAIT OF MODERN HUMANS orginated at that time in that area.
The example I already mentioned: tools. Metal tools - use and control of metals being an important trait of modern humans - came millennia later. General use of tools - created objects instead of naturally occuring ones - came millennia earlier.

So, nothing in science or history can lead us to the conclusion that 11,000 years ago a new sort of humans suddenly arrived on Earth. Instead, science and history tells us that, around 11,000 years ago (more or less), humans who had been around for ages developed techniques that changed their society massively.

And, to build on that last part: they developed techniques that your version of "humans" would already have had, but conveniently "didn't bring with them"... and weren't able to redevelope for millennia.

Just as you conveniently forgot / ignored the question I asked you about this "superior intelligence". Your version of humans would be capable of judging whether an angel who told them about metal smithing was "good" or "bad"... but they would be too stupid to judge if the angel was right.

You have nothing. Not history, not science, not scripture. Just bluster.

 

[Aman777]

Say, what do you do when you are faced with believers, who tell you that there is no way that humans landed on Earth 11,000 years ago, because the world is only 6000 years old, and that Noah's flood happened only 4000 years ago? They obviously don't have your exclusive version of the Holy Spirit, right?

No, since Christians are saved by Faith from God the Father. I tell them the same thing I tell you and they accept me because they can see that I support my view with Scripture, the same Scripture they have believed in order to become a Christian. My brothers and sisters in Christ are my friends and can see that I am one of them.

You have nothing. Not history, not science, not scripture. Just bluster.

Thanks for another Atheistic opinion. My opponents on this planet don't realize that they are laying up Treasure for me in Heaven, so thanks ahead of time for disagreeing with me and God. I can hardly wait to harvest the good you have bestowed upon me. God bless you

 

[DogmaHunter]

A new tourist attraction where the paws of ancient Apes scruffed up the ground and weeds grew. Oh boy. Looks like Human fishermen to me OR some hungry fish eating Ape? Limestone Caves with walls can be found for millions of years into the past. After the "discovery" the cave closed. Not enough tourists, I suspect.

Denial, won't make it go away.

 

[Freodin]

No, since Christians are saved by Faith from God the Father. I tell them the same thing I tell you and they accept me because they can see that I support my view with Scripture, the same Scripture they have believed in order to become a Christian. My brothers and sisters in Christ are my friends and can see that I am one of them.

But they also defend their view - which is incompatible with yours - with Scripture and Science and History. Just as I refute your views with this same Scripture and Science and History.

I don't care what your views on "being saved" are... this is not the question here. But when you assert one thing about unbelievers who disagree with your weird views, and deny this same assertion for believers who disagree with your weird views... I will continue pointing out your inconsistency.

Thanks for another Atheistic opinion. My opponents on this planet don't realize that they are laying up Treasure for me in Heaven, so thanks ahead of time for disagreeing with me and God. I can hardly wait to harvest the good you have bestowed upon me. God bless you

If you think you get divine brownie points for being wrong - which is the reason people disagree with you here - well, I will just add that to the list of inconsistencies in Christian's beliefs.

 

[Aman777]

But they also defend their view - which is incompatible with yours - with Scripture and Science and History. Just as I refute your views with this same Scripture and Science and History.

Is this the Donald? Either produce your evidence (post) where you have refuted (proven wrong) my view or everyone will see that you are Trump, or at least Trumpian (compulsive falsehood preacher). Waiting...Just post it here...but I won't hold my breath. Amen?