The ACLU is at it again.

Everyone in this country deserves the same rights, regardless of what they may have done. The Constitution doesn't limit rights only to those people who aren't charged with horrible crimes.

And remember, our nation is based upon the principle of innocent until proven guilty. So far there have been no completed trials against anyone accused of being involved with the Sept. 11 tragedy. Ergo, we are required to presume innoconce of those we hold. Once they have been found guilty, their rights are abrogated, but not before. That's the way the American system works.

After many Christians fought so hard for equal rights for all people, how can anyone deny that there should be equal rights? AlphaPhi is right - rights aren't there just for people you like, but it is equally important (perhaps even more so) that equal rights be given to people you don't like - after all, there are always people who don't like you, and I for one would not like to see them be able to take my rights away. I would not be able to complain if they did, if I had argued against equal rights for all.

The aclu celebrates the muder of the unborn child. The aclu does not protect the baby. The baby has no rights. The terrorists rights are protected by the aclu in several ways: Their right to come in this country is protected; their right to meet privately, send emails & faxes organizing our deaths is protected by the aclu, and their comfort in incarceration is protected to the point of questioning thier captivity at all.
But the aclu does not protect the baby in this country it supposedly serves. But the aclu allows islam to be taught in school, but not Christianity. hmm. The aclu picks & chooses it's cases.

We now have holidays for murderers? What is this world coming too? I know it's sounds harsh but sometimes the truth is harsh. The percentage of abortions to births has become stagering. Abortion is now no big deal for many. I know of some girls that have gotten several abortions. It's their birth control. Think of what God thinks seeing one of his children get killed by his parents. What if they had abortion when Jesus was around, would Mary get an abortion since she didn't have a husband (she wasn't married to Joseph yet when she found out she was with child)?

the ACUL is not intrested in what the people of the united states want, they are intrested in what they want. they sue and lobby untill they get their way and do everything they can to prevent the average person from having their voice heard when the average person opposes them.

check out this: www.takebackmaryland.org

if the people wanted to vote on a law, why did the ACLU work so hard to stop them. If they really cared about the rights of the people, they would want those people to be able to vote on whether they wanted a law or not, right? well, apperently, haveing people actually vote is too risky for the ACLU, could it be because they aren't what they really seem and they are afraid the people will realize this?

Originally posted by Debbie
But the aclu allows islam to be taught in school, but not Christianity. hmm. The aclu picks & chooses it's cases.

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This is absolutely absurd. Not that it isn't partly true, but because you view it as a bad thing.

One question:
1) what is wrong with Islam?

In addition to this, I will point out that the Islamic religion itself, nor any other religion is taught in public schools. Sure they get mentioned, but the details are not included. It is illegal to teach creationism, but it is NOT ILLEGAL to teach it in natural science classes or cultural/theological/history or related classes as a theory. The supreme court, however, has declared in a 7-2 vote that creation science is not a science unto itself, and thus there are no classes in public schools designed to teach it as the definitive fact.

No religion is taught in any public school to be the true religion, as it should be.

Originally posted by lisa03wilson
the ACUL is not intrested in what the people of the united states want, they are intrested in what they want. they sue and lobby untill they get their way and do everything they can to prevent the average person from having their voice heard when the average person opposes them.

check out this: www.takebackmaryland.org

if the people wanted to vote on a law, why did the ACLU work so hard to stop them. If they really cared about the rights of the people, they would want those people to be able to vote on whether they wanted a law or not, right? well, apperently, haveing people actually vote is too risky for the ACLU, could it be because they aren't what they really seem and they are afraid the people will realize this?

Click to expand...

Okay, I am getting closer and closer to just straight up leaving this forum for good.


Oh, let me tell you how horrible those ACLU b***ards are for defending laws protecting homosexuals. Those homosexuals are so anti-family, evil, spawn of satan, whatever you may view them as.

That was sarcasm.
This is not:
Those protesters that you are defending are protesting laws that would help out homosexuals and allow them to overcome some of the obstacles imposed by dark-age thinkers in the Religious Right. The ACLU is doing their job in protecting the rights of homosexuals. How dare anyone view them as evil because of that.

Also, you mentioned the average person not having their voice heard? 58,000 people is not the voice of the average person in Maryland, a state with millions of inhabitants.


The ACLU is not here to defend anyone's beliefs. They are here to protect the oppressed.

No, according to the ACLU everyone in this country has the same rights, regardless of if they're an accussed terrorist or an abortionist. Rights aren't just for people you like. If there is any discrepency in the rights we give anyone, then our nation is not truly what it claims to be.

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This quote is gonna come back at ya....Shouldn't the unborn souls of those little fetus' have the same rights as the terrorists? Or the abortionists the aclu and you most obviously support? Or does a person have to be 4'+ to qualify?

A fetus doesn't qualify? See no evil syndrom?

Originally posted by Debbie
The aclu celebrates the muder of the unborn child. The aclu does not protect the baby. The baby has no rights.

Click to expand...

No, under our system they do not. This is wrong. But the ACLU and our laws come solely from the Constitution, which does not provide rights for unborn Americans. Want to change this? Push for a change to the Constitution.

The terrorists rights are protected by the aclu in several ways: Their right to come in this country is protected; their right to meet privately, send emails & faxes organizing our deaths is protected by the aclu, and their comfort in incarceration is protected to the point of questioning thier captivity at all.

Click to expand...

No one is questioning the holding of terrorist suspects (so long as they have been charged with a crime, we can't hold people merely on suspicion in this country, the Constitution forbids it). And yes, the ACLU defends the right of people in this country to move about as they please, to associate with who they will, and to speak as they will. In other words, the rights all of us have. Just because someone is accused of being a terrorist doesn't mean they are. And until they are convicted, by our Constitution, they have all the same rights you and I do. That's how America works. If you don't like it, move.

But the aclu allows islam to be taught in school, but not Christianity. hmm. The aclu picks & chooses it's cases.

Click to expand...

The ACLU does not allow any religion to be "taught" as in indoctrination in schools. They don't have a say in that regard. No doubt you are talking about the story about "indoctrination" in California that was all over the drooling-moron so-called "Christian news" sites. Heres a hint for living in the real world: don't ever trust anything you read on WorldNetDaily or Agape Press. If the people who ran those sites had their druthers, Islam wouldn't even be legal to practice in this country.

And they never report the cases the ACLU takes on behalf of Christian groups.

Originally posted by blindfaith
This quote is gonna come back at ya....Shouldn't the unborn souls of those little fetus' have the same rights as the terrorists? Or the abortionists the aclu and you most obviously support?

Click to expand...

I am ardently pro life. However, unlike you, I actually understand US law. All law and rights stem from the Constitution. At present, the Constitution does not extend rights to the unborn. I believe it should, and support any means, short of a Constitution Convention, required to amend the Constitution in this regard.

However, until then, there is no Constitutional grounds by which to claim that unborn children have rights. And attacking the rights of adults does nothing to further your cause.

The reason that the ACLU rightly opposes the "Take Back" movements is because what those groups seek to "take back" are the Constitutional rights of gay Americans. You see, there's this little thing called the Equal Protection Clause, which says that if the government provides A to group Alpha, then it must also provide it to group Beta.

What the Take Back movements want is akin to me starting a movement in Texas to "Take Back Texas" by reinstating the Jim Crowe laws. Would that be right? No. But what if 90% of the people in Texas support my movement, would it then be right? No.

It doesn't matter how large the majority that opposes equality, the government must always provide it. And groups like the ACLU exist to ensure it does.

Whats really sad is that this myh that the ACLU hates Christians is so entrenched in some people's minds that in the rare occassion that the government does oppress Christians, those Christians ignore a major source of potential help, the ACLU, due to these stupid myths. However, if you actually look at its history you would find that when Christians have been persecuted by the government -- which is rare, since it is usually Christians using their weight in the government to do the persecution, though it does happen -- and have asked the ACLU for help, the organization has provided it.

The ACLU stands for Constitutionality. If something is un-Constitutional, regardless of who supports it, or who it hurts, the ACLU steps up to fight it.

To stand against the ACLU is to spit on the Constitution itself.

Hey there...

Well... since I am from New Zealand I have no clue what the ACLU does.... although from reading this thread it seems that Mr (or Mrs ) AlphaPhi has got a very valid point... If the constitution doesn't recognise the unborn as being alive then that is where you have to target.. not the abortionists, the ACLU, the pro-choicers or whomever else... look at the root of the problem and sort it out there rather than wasting your time chopping the head off the weed and watching it grow right back....

Saying that though I have no clue what you have to do to get a change in the constitution... any enlightenment would be appreciated here

Also could you spare a few seconds to fill me in on the sorts of things that the ACLU has done both for and against christianity

cheers

Neill

There are three ways to change the United States Constitution:

1. 2/3 votes in both Houses of Congress on a proposed amendment with identical language, followed by ratification by the Legislatures of 3/4 of the States before a certain expiration date (usually 7 years). All but once, this is how the Constitution has been altered.

2. Go state by state and get 3/4 of the Legislatures to ratify an amendment. In this approach Congress and the Federal government are excluded from the process altogether. This has been used once, to pass the single worst amendment of all, Prohibition -- the ban of alcohol, which was championed by a bunch of religious fanatics. After a couple violent decades the Feds and States finally repealed this one.

3. A vote by 2/3 of the Congress to convene a Constitutional Convention, which would include representatives of all states, who would then alter the Constitution. This is a radical option, and must be avoided no matter what, because once that Convention is convened, there are no restrictions on what they could do, so long as they can muster 3/4 support of the 50 delegations.

Most people don't realize that the current Constitution came about under a set of circumstances like option 3... the Congress of the American States under the Articles of Confederation (the first government, which ruled America from the end of the Revolution to 1789) called a Convention to discuss altering the Articles to allow for a stronger presidency. Instead, once the Framers got to the Convention, they closed all the doors, issued gag orders on everyone there, and threw out the Articles, and drafted a wholly new Constitution. This grossly exceeded their mandate, and was actually likely illegal, but the situation under the Articles was untenable.

The irony is that today we would consider this action a "palace coup," and the US might not recognize the "new" government that would arise from such illegal acts by a convention. Yet here we are, over 200 years later, living under that "illegal" Constitution.

As for things the ACLU has done for Christians... just last week there was a case involving Christian firefighters who protested being forced to march in a gay rights parade. They called the ACLU, and it got involved... too late to help them, but it did bargain a deal where from here on out the city will not force firefighters with religious objections to march in such parades. It was a town in the Northeast, I believe. I'm too tired to go look it up at this point.

Glad to see that it's nice and simple then :o

In all reality.... how hard is it to change the constiution then??

Unless there's a major crisis, like the Civil War, or a major progressive movement, like the Civil Rights Movement or the Women's Suffrage Movement, or a major breakdown in governmental operation, like the four-term presidency of Franklin Roosevelt, it's almost impossible.

>>I wonder if it's possible for someone like me to sue for one penny my mother and Planned Parenthood

You can sue them, they will take your money, but I would not expect to win. Like Abraham, we are looking for a city who's maker and founder is God. Abraham, like us is looking to get out of the city that man is in control of.

Ezekiel 9:4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

One way to know we are saved is because we sigh and cry over the abominations we see day in and day out.

1 Peter 4:4a they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.

As far as I can tell, the court system seems to be run by self righteous pagans and heathens. Perhaps they do not like Christians because it makes them feel just a little bit less self righteous. Heathens are known more for being called secular humanists. I am not sure what pagans call themselves now a days. But that is why the court is divided, Pagans and Heathens do not agree. There are those who go back and forth and can not decide what they are. They are the ones that control the court.

I have been to court over the abortion issue. They got a restraining order against us so that only two people at a time were allowed to stand outside and try and talk the teenage girls out of killing their baby. I don't even like to talk about it now. It may upset me. Thanks, JohnR7

John, don't be stupid. The Court is not Pagan, or Heathen.

The Court is Constitutional. The only document that counts in the Supreme Court is the United States Constitution, and thats how it must be. We are a republic, based upon that document. Not the Bible. Not any religious precepts. The Constitution.

The reason Christians lose so many lawsuits is because they actually think it matters what their Bible says when they're in a court of law. Sorry, in the court of law, your Bible is no more valuable the Qu'ran, the Bhagavad Gita or the Tao of Pooh. You want to make a legal case, you want to really fight against abortion, you have to immerse yourself in Constitutional law.

For our government truly is Sola Scriptura, and that Scripture is the Constitution of the United States of America.

>>John, don't be stupid.

As you judge, you shall be judged.

One of the rules of this board is
thow shalt not judge harshly but only discuss. No name calling.
· Rule No. 7

7) You will not post any messages that are primarily aimed at aggravating, provoking, insulting, offending or inflaming Christians, Christian denominations or their beliefs. This is considered "trolling". This does not mean you cannot post controversial topics, or start threads that disagree with doctrines from other denominations, as long as this is done in a non-confrontational manner and does not break any other rule.