The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[Elioenai26]

You fail to see the whole point of his actions. While I don't condone hatred, he was frustrated that such a huge system of irrationality is glorified and that it has so much influence over his life. It does get freaking annoying.

What is this huge system of irrationality that you are referring to?

 

[Davian]

You use the words "prove" and "demonstrate" interchangeably, I do not.

You said, on the same subject, "He assumes there is one and only one realm, the natural. But how could he prove that?"

I see that you also use the word interchangeably.

Is someone else posting using your account?

I can demonstrate or show via philosophical argument that God exists.

Which you have yet to do so.

I would not say that I could "prove" God exists through said arguments.

I have never held you to that.

1. If the word 'transcendent' is used as an adjective to describe a noun in a hypothesis, then said hypothesis has no explanatory power.
2. The word 'transcendent' is used as an adjective to describe a noun (creator) in the hypothesis: 'A transcendent creator created the cosmos'.
3. Therefore, the hypothesis 'A transcendent creator created the cosmos' has no explanatory power.

Now, I will wait for you to demonstrate why premise 1. and 2. are more plausibly true than their contradictories.

In the absence of a positive ontology, your "creator" is effectively non-existent. Your argument will need some patching up there.

You are right. My support for said assertion is the rich history of God as one of the most if not most central topic in philosophical discourse ever since men began doing philosophy. Reference Aristotle and the like....

And also please reference the Stanford Encyclopedia of Apologetics as well as the Internet Encyclopedia of Apologetics.

Do you have anything for those that do not presuppose the existence of deities?

No. The reason is primarily because I have already demonstrated to you why ignosticism, theological non-congnitivism is self defeating and has been abandoned by everybody but internet infidels and youtube pseudo-philosophers.

[my bold] Where did you do that? Link please, and not to your straw man positivism comments.

And here I thought it was because you had nothing.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

What is this huge system of irrationality that you are referring to?

Really??? You do not need to fake ignorance

 

[Elioenai26]

[my bold] Where did you do that? Link please, and not to your straw man positivism comments.

And here I thought it was because you had nothing.

Logical positivism is dead.

What more can I say?

If it was abandoned by the philosophic community and openly repudiated by one of its most vocal proponents after he realized it was self-defeating, why do you keep asking me to provide a positive ontology?

That would be a waste of time for me.

 

[Elioenai26]

Hitch did not spend "the majority of his life railing against God and those who believed in God," he was rather good at it though. In fact, most of his books and writings had nothing to do with gods and faith.

I do not "hate those who follow Christ," get over your persecution complex. In fact, I have not once personally insulted you. Grow up.

If you hate Christ you hate me.

 

[Elioenai26]

One of my favorite examples is the claim that same-sex couples who want to get legally married are actually out to destroy the Christian version of the institution of marriage.

Sorry, not everything is about religion...

Actually, everything is about whether or not men and women are going to live righteously or unrighteously in this life.

 

[Skavau]

If you hate Christ you hate me.

Uh, no. I also wonder how you define "hating Christ". I find the idea behind Christ repellent but I don't hate Christ any more than I, say, hate Ramsay Snow.

 

[Elioenai26]

Uh, no. I also wonder how you define "hating Christ". I find the idea behind Christ repellent but I don't hate Christ any more than I, say, hate Ramsay Snow.

Hating Christ means you hate what He stands for, what He taught, who He was, what He did.

And so on, and so forth, and yes, you hate Him. You hate Him for the same reasons the religious elite of His day hated Him, pride.

But He loves you, more than you can know right now.

But you do not believe me, and surely you will say I have not demonstrated anything I have just said. You will also state that you do not see love in anything God has done or made, and surely you will continue in your thinking until something changes your perception, if that something happens at all.

But I pray for you and love you. For people prayed for me and loved me when I did not even love myself.

Good day to you.

 

[bhsmte]

If you hate Christ you hate me.

Bit strong.

No discussion here has led to any indication of hate. In fact, if one does't believe in God, how can they hate something they don't believe in.

 

[Elioenai26]

Bit strong.

No discussion here has led to any indication of hate. In fact, if one does't believe in God, how can they hate something they don't believe in.

Their denial is evidence of hate.

One cannot deny something exists unless it first exists in order to deny it.

Surely you will say:

"Well I hate Odin, does that mean Odin exists?"

And I will say:

"Everywhere, and in all things, there are traces, shadows, and hints of that One from whom all things come and through Whom all things exist."

 

[Davian]

Do you concede the balance of my post?

Logical positivism is dead.

What more can I say?

You said, " I have already demonstrated to you why ignosticism, theological non-congnitivism is self defeating and has been abandoned"

As you have been corrected on in the past, this is not positivism. This is post-positivism. Are you unclear on difference?

Is someone else posting using your account?

If it was abandoned by the philosophic community and openly repudiated by one of its most vocal proponents after he realized it was self-defeating, why do you keep asking me to provide a positive ontology?

Because a positive ontology produces facts, something we can work with.

Telling us what it isn't gets us nowhere.

Note that I also expect that you incorporate the concept of falsifiability into any of your hypotheses.

That would be a waste of time for me.

I guess we can tell Paradoxum that the debate is off.

 

[Elioenai26]

You said, on the same subject, "He assumes there is one and only one realm, the natural. But how could he prove that?"

I see that you also use the word interchangeably.

Is someone else posting using your account?

Which you have yet to do so.

I have never held you to that.

In the absence of a positive ontology, your "creator" is effectively non-existent. Your argument will need some patching up there.

Do you have anything for those that do not presuppose the existence of deities?

[my bold] Where did you do that? Link please, and not to your straw man positivism comments.

And here I thought it was because you had nothing.

If I could ask one thing of you, that you would be willing to grant me, even though you owe me nothing....

Read this and think on it:

"Everyone either loves themselves, or loves God. Those who love themselves will have themselves as company forever. Those who love God will have God as company forever."

I pray for you and love you. May God bless you and your family.

 

[Skavau]

Hating Christ means you hate what He stands for, what He taught, who He was, what He did.

I don't hate Christ. I don't believe Christ was. I dislike some of what people say he stood for or meant to achieve.

And so on, and so forth, and yes, you hate Him. You hate Him for the same reasons the religious elite of His day hated Him, pride.

Given your track record of smearing me, why should I pay the slightest shred of attention to why you think I think the way I do?

But He loves you, more than you can know right now.

Yet will cast me into permanent exile for not reciprocating.

But you do not believe me, and surely you will say I have not demonstrated anything I have just said. You will also state that you do not see love in anything God has done or made, and surely you will continue in your thinking until something changes your perception, if that something happens at all.

Pretty much.

But I pray for you and love you. For people prayed for me and loved me when I did not even love myself.

If my opposition to Jesus is loaded in pride then how is it that you think I don't love myself?

Your smears are not internally consistent.

 

[Skavau]

Their denial is evidence of hate.

No it isn't. Citation needed.

One cannot deny something exists unless it first exists in order to deny it.

This is just obvious nonsense. Anyone can deny anything real or otherwise for any reason whatsoever. Someone's denial of a proposition has nothing to do with whether it exists or is true or not.

Surely you will say:

"Well I hate Odin, does that mean Odin exists?"

And I will say:

"Everywhere, and in all things, there are traces, shadows, and hints of that One from whom all things come and through Whom all things exist."

And I will add:

What a complete non-sequitor.

 

[Davian]

If I could ask one thing of you, that you would be willing to grant me, even though you owe me nothing....

Read this and think on it:

"Everyone either loves themselves, or loves God. Those who love themselves will have themselves as company forever. Those who love God will have God as company forever."

I pray for you and love you. May God bless you and your family.

No offense, but this is gibberish.

Is someone else posting here using your account?

 

[Gadarene]

Hating Christ means you hate what He stands for, what He taught, who He was, what He did.

And so on, and so forth, and yes, you hate Him. You hate Him for the same reasons the religious elite of His day hated Him, pride.

But He loves you, more than you can know right now.

But you do not believe me, and surely you will say I have not demonstrated anything I have just said. You will also state that you do not see love in anything God has done or made, and surely you will continue in your thinking until something changes your perception, if that something happens at all.

But I pray for you and love you. For people prayed for me and loved me when I did not even love myself.

Good day to you.

Let's be clear on this - lying about people and smearing them is not love.

Given the deity you follow though it is not surprising you have internalised this domestic-abuser style of 'love'.

 

[Gadarene]

If I could ask one thing of you, that you would be willing to grant me, even though you owe me nothing....

Read this and think on it:

"Everyone either loves themselves, or loves God. Those who love themselves will have themselves as company forever. Those who love God will have God as company forever."

I pray for you and love you. May God bless you and your family.

Can I have a source for that quote? Assuming it's referring to the Christian god, it's a complete load of piffle. The two basic commands are to love God AND your neighbour AS yourself.

 

[Cearbhall]

Their denial is evidence of hate.

If you think this, then I can only assume that it's because it applies to yourself. What did all those other gods do to make you hate them?

One cannot deny something exists unless it first exists in order to deny it.

Santa owes me a lot of presents, then.

And I want my unicorn. And a Tinker Bell.



One cannot deny the existence of something unless the idea first exists.

 

[bhsmte]

Their denial is evidence of hate.

One cannot deny something exists unless it first exists in order to deny it.

Surely you will say:

"Well I hate Odin, does that mean Odin exists?"

And I will say:

"Everywhere, and in all things, there are traces, shadows, and hints of that One from whom all things come and through Whom all things exist."

Claiming you don't believe something exists does not mean you hate something, it just means you don't believe in it.

From my standpoint, I don't hate christians, but I do find a portion of them to be; judgmental, arrogant, ignorant and in general very annoying. These are usually the one's who take the bible literally and to me, are difficult people to deal with.

Most of my friends are christian and two of my kids actually went to a christian school for a couple of years, so I have been exposed to many of the fundamental christian types and they are the ones that are overboard. They feel they are special, they can judge and they put their fingers in the ears to protect themselves from any information that may go against their religious beliefs. To me, that is no way to go through life.

In regards to God, I don't hate him because I don't believe he exists, but I do feel what christianity portrays itself to be is actually as much immoral as it is moral and I have issues with that.

 

[Cearbhall]

I also don't think he hated people who believed in God, but I do think he was taken aback by what he felt was an extreme amount of ignorance and lack of independent thinking.

It is rather flabbergasting when you really try to step outside of your social conditioning and look inward at religion.

What is this huge system of irrationality that you are referring to?

You can just say that you disagree instead of playing dumb.

If you hate Christ you hate me.

You said that "denial is evidence of hate," so by your own logic, you're admitting that there's evidence that you hate all followers of deities that you think don't exist. Disgusting.