The Abolishment of the Old Covenant the Law and Religion

[Hawkins]

Laws to humans are part of a covenant. A covenant covers a scope of humans independent of time. There are always dead people under laws of a covenant. For that matter, all laws of all covenants won't go away or abolished (not before the Judgment Day). "Law being abolished" is only spoken in the sense that the laws no longer apply because Christians hopped over to a New Covenant where Law is absent.

In the New Covenant, unlike any old covenants, commandments are no longer enforced as laws. They are Christ's commands and teaching. This means faith may save you at the end, even when you broke them more than once. In old covenants if you broke a commandment, even once you may be sentenced to death as commandments in old covenants may be enforced as laws.

 

[guevaraj]

You are mixing the spiritual with the physical. The results is confusion. Spiritually we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. You are making Paul out to be a liar. Paul struggled with sin because of his lower Adamic nature. "I find then a law, that when I do good, evil is present with me" Romans 7:21. The evil that is present with Paul is his lower Adamic nature. The Adamic nature can be subdued, but it cannot be annihilated.

Brother, to subdue, as you say, our sinful nature annihilates it in time. That is the message of Paul when He says Jesus is the answer to our struggle with sin to do what God wants, because Jesus lives forever to complete the work that began in us when He first forgave our past sins and will continue to forgive our past sins until we grow through practice to sin no more, as we are "born again" as a child who learns to walk by willing to get up again and again until he no longer falls. Unlike a child, who gets up again and again, you put forth no effort, waiting for Jesus to return when Paul tells us Jesus "has" already given us the victory over sin in our past and it is written that we will grow to be like Jesus when He returns. This growth through practice, of being "born again" by the Spirit, was available even before Jesus made the cycle faster than the slow, stand-in for Jesus, animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of past sins, as Jesus tells us in the following passage.

There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.” Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.” “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?” Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked. Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.” (John 3:1-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, to subdue, as you say, our sinful nature annihilates it in time. That is the message of Paul when He says Jesus is the answer to our struggle with sin to do what God wants, because Jesus lives forever to complete the work that began in us when He first forgave our past sins and will continue to forgive our past sins until we grow through practice to sin no more, as we are "born again" as a child who learns to walk by willing to get up again and again until he no longer falls. Unlike a child, who gets up again and again, you put forth no effort, waiting for Jesus to return when Paul tells us Jesus "has" already given us the victory over sin in our past and it is written that we will grow to be like Jesus when He returns. This growth through practice, of being "born again" by the Spirit, was available even before Jesus made the cycle faster than the slow, stand-in for Jesus, animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of past sins, as Jesus tells us in the following passage.

There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.” Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.” “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?” Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked. Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.” (John 3:1-21 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are in error.

The Adamic nature cannot be annihilated. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our Adamic nature can be annihilated. We are born sinners and we die as sinners. I am, elderly and I can tell you that the old Adam is alive and well, I know, because I struggle with him every day. This is why Paul said, "For the good that I would do, I do not: but the evil which I would do not, that I do" Romans 7:19.

If you don't have this struggle in your life, it may be that you don't have the Holy Spirit. The Christian life is a struggle, you don't seem to be struggling. Something is missing.

 

[guevaraj]

You are in error. The Adamic nature cannot be annihilated. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our Adamic nature can be annihilated.

Brother, the following passage is evidence that all sin is annihilated by Jesus' permanent priesthood, giving us victory over sin in time. How much time does it take? However long it takes, the process is the same. We annihilate all sin in our character through the cycle of forgiveness offered by our High Priest Jesus, who lives forever to complete the work He began on us when He first forgave us.

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. (Hebrews 7:23-26 NIV)​

We are born sinners and we die as sinners. I am, elderly and I can tell you that the old Adam is alive and well, I know, because I struggle with him every day. This is why Paul said, "For the good that I would do, I do not: but the evil which I would do not, that I do" Romans 7:19. If you don't have this struggle in your life, it may be that you don't have the Holy Spirit. The Christian life is a struggle, you don't seem to be struggling. Something is missing.

There is no need to struggle with sin because seeking forgiveness from our High Priest Jesus is immediate compared to animal sacrifices. Read on and the solution to the struggle is given! Jesus' faster forgiveness cycle than animal sacrifices, allowing us to grow through practice much faster, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25 NLT)​

If you do not think God's cycle of forgiveness works, listen to Paul boast about His righteousness based on the law in the following passage. What does Paul mean by contrasting putting your "faith" in the Spirit versus the prior "human effort" through the law? Here is an example, the struggle not to use God's name in vain seemed too demanding under the slow animal sacrifices, so instead of doing what God asks, Judaism put forth their own "human effort" by adding a human law not to pronounce God's name at all and, this way, avoiding misusing his name. This human law, however, sabotaged God's law to not remove sin from our character as would be done by what God actually asked of them. Paul is against these "human efforts" in Judaism and he wants Christians to only do what God asks and not sabotage God's way with "human efforts" as done in Judaism.

Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort, though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more! I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault. I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith. (Philippians 3:2-9 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[HIM]

You are in error.

The Adamic nature cannot be annihilated. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our Adamic nature can be annihilated. We are born sinners and we die as sinners. I am, elderly and I can tell you that the old Adam is alive and well, I know, because I struggle with him every day. This is why Paul said, "For the good that I would do, I do not: but the evil which I would do not, that I do" Romans 7:19.

If you don't have this struggle in your life, it may be that you don't have the Holy Spirit. The Christian life is a struggle, you don't seem to be struggling. Something is missing.

Romans 8:2 says He had been set free from the law of sin and death in which he said he was in bondage to in chapter 7.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[HIM]

Some have quoted Colossians as proof that we will sin all our lives when Colossians says quit the opposite. In summary it says....

We the saints and faithful brethren. Having the faith in and of Christ Jesus and love for all the Holy ones because of the HOPE, the expectation reserved in the heavens for us. The good news, the Gospel which has come unto us, bearing fruit. Having been made fit, made qualified for the portion, our share in the inheritence of the saints in Light. Delivered through His blood, our sin sent forth, separated from us through Christ Jesus, the image of the invisible God. The Head of the Body, the Church. Us who have been NOW Reconciled INTO Him in the Body of His flesh through His death to present us reconciled, changed, Holy, without fault in His presence, to fulfill the will of God. If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel. Which is the hope, the mystery which is now revealed. Which is Christ in us the hope of Glory. This hope, the expectation having been reserved in Heaven and has come unto us. Whom we preach to present every man in PERFECT in Christ. Wherein we ALSO labor, striving according to His working which worketh in us mightily. In acknowledgement of This mystery of God, in that we have received. Christ in you, walk you in Him. Rooted and built up in Him and ESTABLISHED in the faith. Complete in Him. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands. In the putting off the body, the sins of the flesh. Buried with Him in Baptism, wherein we are risen with Him through faith in the operation of God who raised Him, Christ our Lord from the dead. We who were dead in our sins and uncircumcision of our flesh have He quickened together with having forgiven us all tresspasses.

 

[RobertPate]

Some have quoted Colossians as proof that we will sin all our lives when Colossians says quit the opposite. In summary it says....

We the saints and faithful brethren. Having the faith in and of Christ Jesus and love for all the Holy ones because of the HOPE, the expectation reserved in the heavens for us. The good news, the Gospel which has come unto us, bearing fruit. Having been made fit, made qualified for the portion, our share in the inheritence of the saints in Light. Delivered through His blood, our sin sent forth, separated from us through Christ Jesus, the image of the invisible God. The Head of the Body, the Church. Us who have been NOW Reconciled INTO Him in the Body of His flesh through His death to present us reconciled, changed, Holy, without fault in His presence, to fulfill the will of God. If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel. Which is the hope, the mystery which is now revealed. Which is Christ in us the hope of Glory. This hope, the expectation having been reserved in Heaven and has come unto us. Whom we preach to present every man in PERFECT in Christ. Wherein we ALSO labor, striving according to His working which worketh in us mightily. In acknowledgement of This mystery of God, in that we have received. Christ in you, walk you in Him. Rooted and built up in Him and ESTABLISHED in the faith. Complete in Him. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands. In the putting off the body, the sins of the flesh. Buried with Him in Baptism, wherein we are risen with Him through faith in the operation of God who raised Him, Christ our Lord from the dead. We who were dead in our sins and uncircumcision of our flesh have He quickened together with having forgiven us all tresspasses.

There are two separate aspects of Christianity.

The spiritual and the physical. If you don't define the spiritual from the physical, you will not understand the Bible.

Spiritually, we are perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Physically we are "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

We are born with Adam's nature. When we accept Christ as our savior we receive the Holy Spirit, which is the nature of Christ. Our old Adamic nature does not go away, we still have it. It can cause stress in the Christians life because they are contrary the one to the other, Galatians 5:17.

 

[guevaraj]

There are two separate aspects of Christianity. The spiritual and the physical. If you don't define the spiritual from the physical, you will not understand the Bible. Spiritually, we are perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Physically we are "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. We are born with Adam's nature. When we accept Christ as our savior we receive the Holy Spirit, which is the nature of Christ. Our old Adamic nature does not go away, we still have it. It can cause stress in the Christians life because they are contrary the one to the other, Galatians 5:17.

Brother, Paul's struggle is understood by everyone who wants to learn to play the piano. They want to play the piano with their "mind", but find that their "flesh" does not achieve their desire to play the piano. Does that mean they can't learn to play the piano with enough tries, in our new birth, like a child learning to walk by getting up again and again until he doesn't fall anymore? Paul tells us in the following passage that the sinner needs Jesus to triumph over our sin and obey God's law.

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25 NLT)​

If the above passage doesn't convince you that Jesus is the answer to the struggle, Paul tells us in the next passage "that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey". He who chooses to steal becomes a better thief and he who chooses to play the piano becomes a better pianist. The child who chooses to walk like his parents will walk because he does not give up when he falls, knowing that his parents facilitate his efforts.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, Paul's struggle is understood by everyone who wants to learn to play the piano. They want to play the piano with their "mind", but find that their "flesh" does not achieve their desire to play the piano. Does that mean they can't learn to play the piano with enough tries, in our new birth, like a child learning to walk by getting up again and again until he doesn't fall anymore? Paul tells us in the following passage that the sinner needs Jesus to triumph over our sin and obey God's law.

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25 NLT)​

If the above passage doesn't convince you that Jesus is the answer to the struggle, Paul tells us in the next passage "that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey". He who chooses to steal becomes a better thief and he who chooses to play the piano becomes a better pianist. The child who chooses to walk like his parents will walk because he does not give up when he falls, knowing that his parents facilitate his efforts.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I can see you now, "But Lord, Lord, didn't I" Matthew 7:21:23.

You are not free from the flesh. You are still here on this sinful planet in your unredeemed Adamic body, Romans 8:23. That is prone to sin.

 

[guevaraj]

I can see you now, "But Lord, Lord, didn't I" Matthew 7:21:23. You are not free from the flesh. You are still here on this sinful planet in your unredeemed Adamic body, Romans 8:23. That is prone to sin.

Brother, you contradict Paul's message, which says "now you are free from your slavery to sin". Notice that He has not said that we have to wait to be free in heaven and for now we continue in our slavery to sin until heaven.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, you contradict Paul's message, which says "now you are free from your slavery to sin". Notice that He has not said that we have to wait to be free in heaven and for now we continue in our slavery to sin until heaven.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Paul is talking about the spiritual aspect of being a Christian. Spiritually, we are perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Spiritually, we are in Christ and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. Spiritually we are free from sin.

Physically, we are still on this planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23. You are mixing the spiritual with the physical, which results in confusion. Why did Paul refer to himself as the chief of sinners if he had overcome sin? 1 Timothy 1:15.

 

[guevaraj]

Why did Paul refer to himself as the chief of sinners if he had overcome sin? 1 Timothy 1:15.

Brother, because Paul could be "proud", Jesus gave him a "thorn in my flesh" so that he would not be "proud". This "thorn in my flesh" showed Paul that he was more vulnerable to sin by becoming "proud" than others, and therefore "the chief of sinners", if God did not intervene on his behalf to prevent him from becoming "proud".

...to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud. Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. Each time he said, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.” So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me. That’s why I take pleasure in my weaknesses, and in the insults, hardships, persecutions, and troubles that I suffer for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:7b-10 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, because Paul could be "proud", Jesus gave him a "thorn in my flesh" so that he would not be "proud". This "thorn in my flesh" showed Paul that he was more vulnerable to sin by becoming "proud" than others, and therefore "the chief of sinners", if God did not intervene on his behalf to prevent him from becoming "proud".

...to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud. Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. Each time he said, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.” So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me. That’s why I take pleasure in my weaknesses, and in the insults, hardships, persecutions, and troubles that I suffer for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:7b-10 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Your doctrine is in conflict with Paul's struggle with sin, Romans 7:7-25.

 

[guevaraj]

Your doctrine is in conflict with Paul's struggle with sin, Romans 7:7-25.

Brother, that is a temporary struggle, as is learning the piano. A struggle that Paul tells us we can overcome thanks to Jesus: "now you are free from your slavery to sin" and "you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey", allowing you to choose to become slaves to righteous living as a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he lo longer falls thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins that allows us to get up again and again until we grow through practice to not fall into sin anymore.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, that is a temporary struggle, as is learning the piano. A struggle that Paul tells us we can overcome thanks to Jesus: "now you are free from your slavery to sin" and "you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey", allowing you to choose to become slaves to righteous living as a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he lo longer falls thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins that allows us to get up again and again until we grow through practice to not fall into sin anymore.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Paul never taught that he had finally arrived. You continue to mix the spiritual with the physical, which results in confusion. You also continue to mix Old Covenant law and religion with New Covenant faith and Gospel.

You can't figure out how a Christian can be a sinner and be saved. Sin is the transgression of the law. The law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? I hardly think so.

 

[guevaraj]

Paul never taught that he had finally arrived. You continue to mix the spiritual with the physical, which results in confusion. You also continue to mix Old Covenant law and religion with New Covenant faith and Gospel. You can't figure out how a Christian can be a sinner and be saved. Sin is the transgression of the law. The law is spiritual. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? I hardly think so.

Brother, you contradict Paul's message in the following passage, inventing your own idea that there are two separate lives when Paul speaks of one life. Paul tells us that we are now free from our "slavery to sin" and instead have become "slaves to righteous living". It is exactly like the desire to learn to play the piano, it takes a lot of practice to get the body to do what we want.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, you contradict Paul's message in the following passage, inventing your own idea that there are two separate lives when Paul speaks of one life. Paul tells us that we are now free from our "slavery to sin" and instead have become "slaves to righteous living". It is exactly like the desire to learn to play the piano, it takes a lot of practice to get the body to do what we want.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

There are not two separate lives. There are two separate natures. The nature of Christ and the nature of Adam, who is our first father. You refuse to acknowledge that you still have the nature of Adam, who is a sinner. Paul acknowledged that he had two natures because he struggled with sin, Romans 7:7-25. If you don't have this struggle in your life it may be that you are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

 

[guevaraj]

There are not two separate lives. There are two separate natures. The nature of Christ and the nature of Adam, who is our first father. You refuse to acknowledge that you still have the nature of Adam, who is a sinner. Paul acknowledged that he had two natures because he struggled with sin, Romans 7:7-25. If you don't have this struggle in your life it may be that you are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday October 28, 2022 at 10:53 am EDT! Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that it is kept around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years. The struggle of "mind" over "flesh" is not between two natures. Paul tells us who we really are, our "mind" is who we are in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind".

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

Jesus allows you through practice to change the "flesh" with your "mind", which, with practice, will guide your "flesh" to conform to your "mind". It is like the desire to learn to play the piano, it takes a lot of practice to get the body to do what we want. An analogy to the captain of the Titanic should help shed light on the struggle. The "mind" is the captain of the "flesh" telling the "flesh" to deviate from its current course toward destruction, but the "flesh" turns very slowly, like when the Titanic couldn't help but collide with an iceberg, but the grace of Jesus is like having all the time you need to turn away from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.

And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. (Romans 12:1-2 NLT)​

It is the "mind" that guides the "flesh" to become, as Paul tells us, "slaves to righteous living", Jesus having freed us from our former "slavery to sin" by allowing our "flesh" to change through practice guided by our "mind". Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins is the remedy Paul gives to the struggle of our "mind" over our "flesh" by allowing growth through practice which the law does not permit without the daily forgiveness of our High Priest Jesus.

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday October 28, 2022 at 10:53 am EDT! Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that it is kept around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years. The struggle of "mind" over "flesh" is not between two natures. Paul tells us who we really are, our "mind" is who we are in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind".

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

Jesus allows you through practice to change the "flesh" with your "mind", which, with practice, will guide your "flesh" to conform to your "mind". It is like the desire to learn to play the piano, it takes a lot of practice to get the body to do what we want. An analogy to the captain of the Titanic should help shed light on the struggle. The "mind" is the captain of the "flesh" telling the "flesh" to deviate from its current course toward destruction, but the "flesh" turns very slowly, like when the Titanic couldn't help but collide with an iceberg, but the grace of Jesus is like having all the time you need to turn away from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.

And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. (Romans 12:1-2 NLT)​

It is the "mind" that guides the "flesh" to become, as Paul tells us, "slaves to righteous living", Jesus having freed us from our former "slavery to sin" by allowing our "flesh" to change through practice guided by our "mind". Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins is the remedy Paul gives to the struggle of our "mind" over our "flesh" by allowing growth through practice which the law does not permit without the daily forgiveness of our High Priest Jesus.

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So, it appears that you believe that Paul had a problem with his flesh, which is his Old Adamic nature? It also appears that you believe the flesh can be annihilated by works and obedience to the law and you will become holy. I really wish that you were right, but you are not. If you were right then why did Paul say, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. It sounds to me like Paul was struggling with his lower Adamic nature.

 

[guevaraj]

So, it appears that you believe that Paul had a problem with his flesh, which is his Old Adamic nature? It also appears that you believe the flesh can be annihilated by works and obedience to the law and you will become holy. I really wish that you were right, but you are not. If you were right then why did Paul say, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. It sounds to me like Paul was struggling with his lower Adamic nature.

Brother, Paul tells us who we really are, there are not two of you in the struggle. Our renewed "mind" is who we are in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind". There would not be a struggle if you were not in the process of changing who you were to who you are.

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

In the following passage, the struggle is extended to be between the leading of the Holy Spirit and the flesh, which we learned in the letter to the Romans transforms our "mind" before results are seen in our "flesh". The Holy Spirit guides us through the guaranteed word of God through prophets. We are not fighting the Holy Spirit but are together with the Holy Spirit fighting what remains of who we were and Jesus has empowered us to win the battle. The evidence of where we are in our growth is listed and we are told to tolerate different stages of growth.

So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives (mind). Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves (flesh). The sinful nature wants to do evil (flesh), which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants (mind). And the Spirit gives us desires (mind) that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires (flesh). These two forces are constantly fighting each other (struggle), so you are not free to carry out your good intentions (mind). But when you are directed by the Spirit (mind), you are not under obligation to the law (slow growth through Jesus). When you follow the desires of your sinful nature (flesh), the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives (mind): love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature (flesh) to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit (mind), let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another (slow growth through Jesus). (Galatians 5:16-26 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge