The Abolishment of the Old Covenant the Law and Religion

[BobRyan]

The question to the Romans was, "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid" Romans 6:15.

All that have been born again by the Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would never lead a believer into sin. Christians do not deliberately sin. But they are not perfect because they still have their lower Adamic nature that is sinful, Romans 3:10.

Rom 8:4-12 says that those without the Holy Spirit "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed can they" and it is contrasted with those who walk by the Spirit.

Romans 6 says that we are not to sin - for we are under grace and not under law.

So there is no "you must sin" statement in scripture for Christians.

Rather 1 Cor 10 says that "God is faithful who will not ALLOW you to be tempted beyond that which you are able".

When we sin it is our own failing it is not a flaw in the gospel, or a failure on God's part to provide victory over sin.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" because there is no law, Romans 4:15, it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

1. No scripture says "there is no law" not even Romans 4 or Ephesians 2.
2. No scripture says "the Law of God is abolished.

Rather actual scripture says
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

In the NEW testament "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
And in that same letter we are told to "SIN NOT" 1 John 2:1

No wonder that under the NEW Covenant - the LAW of God "is written on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34 instead of abolished - as Heb 8:6-12 also reminds us.

Under the Gospel "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13 where "justified" is a gospel concept.

 

[guevaraj]

As long as you are here on this sinful planet in your unredeemed Adamic flesh You are a sinner, Romans 8:23.

Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday October 14, 2022 at 11:08 am EDT! Jesus adding to the Ten Commandments shows us that there are sins hidden from us that were not exposed by the Ten Commandments. The sins we know about are those that the Ten Commandments of God have exposed as sin. Without God's law, we would not know that we are sinning. However, the human solution of removing God's Ten Commandments does not remove the sin the Ten Commandments exposed in our character. The solution Jesus gives us is to grow through practice thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest while we are under His grace. You do not "suffer" with the "believers" who have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, because you want God to remove the "suffering" as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time, in contradiction to His will that we suffer the pains of our new birth as one suffers to learn something difficult like the piano as a foretaste of future glory.

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us. We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope for it. But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.) (Romans 8:18-25 NLT)​

You don't believe Paul when he said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

I believe all that Paul said and I am not excusing my continual disobedience to God's Eleven Commandments overlooking Paul's correction to bring us back to obeying the law. We truly fulfill the law when we have faith in the cycle of forgiveness from our High Priest Jesus to grow in obedience to the law through practice. Practice that the law alone does not allow without Jesus' cycle of forgiveness.

Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law. (Romans 3:31 NLT)​

Nor do you believe Isaiah when he said, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we do all fade like a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

The law alone can not save us because we need Jesus' cycle of forgiveness to grow in obedience to the law as one learns the piano through practice when the law alone does not allow practice, but with Jesus' cycle of forgiveness, we can learn what is difficult through practice, as one can learn the piano.

You can't figure out how Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. You can't figure it out because you don't understand the Gospel and justification by faith.

I understand the gospel as Jesus providing a way for those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to thrive under His cycle of forgiveness! What you have taken out of the gospel is that God's goal is for us to obey His Eleven Commandments and, toward this end, Jesus has provided the way through His cycle of forgiveness, as our High Priest, to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments, as one would learn the piano through practice, practice the law alone does not provide without Jesus' cycle of forgiveness.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday October 14, 2022 at 11:08 am EDT! Jesus adding to the Ten Commandments shows us that there are sins hidden from us that were not exposed by the Ten Commandments. The sins we know about are those that the Ten Commandments of God have exposed as sin. Without God's law, we would not know that we are sinning. However, the human solution of removing God's Ten Commandments does not remove the sin the Ten Commandments exposed in our character. The solution Jesus gives us is to grow through practice thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest while we are under His grace. You do not "suffer" with the "believers" who have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, because you want God to remove the "suffering" as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time, in contradiction to His will that we suffer the pains of our new birth as one suffers to learn something difficult like the piano as a foretaste of future glory.

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us. We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope for it. But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.) (Romans 8:18-25 NLT)​

I believe all that Paul said and I am not excusing my continual disobedience to God's Eleven Commandments overlooking Paul's correction to bring us back to obeying the law. We truly fulfill the law when we have faith in the cycle of forgiveness from our High Priest Jesus to grow in obedience to the law through practice. Practice that the law alone does not allow without Jesus' cycle of forgiveness.

Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law. (Romans 3:31 NLT)​

The law alone can not save us because we need Jesus' cycle of forgiveness to grow in obedience to the law as one learns the piano through practice when the law alone does not allow practice, but with Jesus' cycle of forgiveness, we can learn what is difficult through practice, as one can learn the piano.

I understand the gospel as Jesus providing a way for those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to thrive under His cycle of forgiveness! What you have taken out of the gospel is that God's goal is for us to obey His Eleven Commandments and, toward this end, Jesus has provided the way through His cycle of forgiveness, as our High Priest, to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments, as one would learn the piano through practice, practice the law alone does not provide without Jesus' cycle of forgiveness.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" because there is no law to condemn them. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. "Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" because there is no law to condemn them.

No text says that the reason the saints are not condemned is because there is no law of God.

Instead of claiming the saints are not condemned because no law of God exists -- Romans 8 actually says this --

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

And it says this about the unsaved...

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

 

[guevaraj]

There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" because there is no law to condemn them. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Brother, happy Sabbath! There is no condemnation because of Jesus' forgiveness as our High Priest and if the law can be removed, there is no need for Jesus' death to keep the law. Jesus abolished the human system of laws in Judaism that sabotaged God's law, as in the story of Hagar. For example, Judaism does not pronounce God's name at all, so as not to abuse His name. It was difficult to master not using God's name in vain under the slow animal sacrifices, but these human laws did not help them enter the kingdom of heaven and didn't let others enter either. These human laws are no longer needed under the faster cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

This expresses Jesus' daily cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest, which was shown in the stand-in repetition of the animal sacrifices before the death of Jesus to allow the growth through practice of those "who no longer follow our sinful nature".

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

"Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

Removing the law does not remove the sin that the law exposed. The only way to remove sin is to obey the law thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiveness, allowing us to grow through practice to obey the law.

Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” ... So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin ... Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin. (Romans 7:7, 14 & 25 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, happy Sabbath! There is no condemnation because of Jesus' forgiveness as our High Priest and if the law can be removed, there is no need for Jesus' death to keep the law. Jesus abolished the human system of laws in Judaism that sabotaged God's law, as in the story of Hagar. For example, Judaism does not pronounce God's name at all, so as not to abuse His name. It was difficult to master not using God's name in vain under the slow animal sacrifices, but these human laws did not help them enter the kingdom of heaven and didn't let others enter either. These human laws are no longer needed under the faster cycle of forgiveness from Jesus as our High Priest.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

This expresses Jesus' daily cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest, which was shown in the stand-in repetition of the animal sacrifices before the death of Jesus to allow the growth through practice of those "who no longer follow our sinful nature".

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

Removing the law does not remove the sin that the law exposed. The only way to remove sin is to obey the law thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiveness, allowing us to grow through practice to obey the law.

Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” ... So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin ... Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin. (Romans 7:7, 14 & 25 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The Bible knows nothing of a cycle of forgiveness. This is something that you have manufactured in your head so that you can maintain your holiness doctrine by the works of the law.

 

[guevaraj]

The Bible knows nothing of a cycle of forgiveness. This is something that you have manufactured in your head so that you can maintain your holiness doctrine by the works of the law.

Brother, we are forgiven through our High Priest Jesus' daily cycle of forgiveness as many times as we forgive others. This cycle was made clear before Jesus with the stand-in earthly temple "copy" death of so many animals for the forgiveness of past sins, as the Jews, since their youth, grew in obedience to the commandments through practice, like one learns to play the piano or anything difficult to learn, like a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Once Jesus was in a certain place praying. As he finished, one of his disciples came to him and said, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.” Jesus said, “This is how you should pray: “Father, may your name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come soon. Give us each day the food we need, and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. And don’t let us yield to temptation.” (Luke 11:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, we are forgiven through our High Priest Jesus' daily cycle of forgiveness as many times as we forgive others. This cycle was made clear before Jesus with the stand-in earthly temple "copy" death of so many animals for the forgiveness of past sins, as the Jews, since their youth, grew in obedience to the commandments through practice, like one learns to play the piano or anything difficult to learn, like a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Once Jesus was in a certain place praying. As he finished, one of his disciples came to him and said, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.” Jesus said, “This is how you should pray: “Father, may your name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come soon. Give us each day the food we need, and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. And don’t let us yield to temptation.” (Luke 11:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

What if I am right? What if the law has been abolished? Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14. What if Christians are perfect and complete "In Christ?" Colossians 2:10. What if, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness?" Romans 10:4.

 

[guevaraj]

What if I am right? What if the law has been abolished? Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14. What if Christians are perfect and complete "In Christ?" Colossians 2:10. What if, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness?" Romans 10:4.

Brother, that would mean that Jesus has changed from what He expected of the Jews before the incarnation with the slower stand-in animal sacrifices, stand-in for the faster cycle of forgiveness of Jesus, in the earthly temple "copy", a "copy" of the true heavenly temple, to allow them to grow through practice, when it is written that Jesus does not change in the following passage. Therefore, we have to change because He does not change. We need to be born again to be with Him. A transformation that is made possible through the cycle of forgiveness of Jesus as our High Priest, allowing us to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments of Jesus through practice as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 NLT)​

We grow through practice to remain "pure, just as He is pure" in the following passage, thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, that would mean that Jesus has changed from what He expected of the Jews before the incarnation with the slower stand-in animal sacrifices, stand-in for the faster cycle of forgiveness of Jesus, in the earthly temple "copy", a "copy" of the true heavenly temple, to allow them to grow through practice, when it is written that Jesus does not change in the following passage. Therefore, we have to change because He does not change. We need to be born again to be with Him. A transformation that is made possible through the cycle of forgiveness of Jesus as our High Priest, allowing us to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments of Jesus through practice as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 NLT)​

We grow through practice to remain "pure, just as He is pure" in the following passage, thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are in direct conflict with the apostle Paul. Worse yet, you are practicing Old Covenant law and religion. Under the New Covenant we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. No laws, rules or religion needed. Under the New Covenant we are ALREADY perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10, no laws, rules or religion needed. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ, which is saving yourself.

 

[guevaraj]

You are in direct conflict with the apostle Paul. Worse yet, you are practicing Old Covenant law and religion. Under the New Covenant we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. No laws, rules or religion needed. Under the New Covenant we are ALREADY perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10, no laws, rules or religion needed. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ, which is saving yourself.

Brother, you are only seeing part of Paul's message. The part where Jesus daily removes our "condemnation" for past sins as our High Priest. Jesus makes us "pure, just as He is pure" every day. However, there is more to Paul's message than how Jesus removes sins, making us "pure, just as He is pure", the actual transformation of our character to "no longer follow our sinful nature", to "keep" myself "pure, just as He is pure" by following the way of the Spirit guaranteed by the prophets in the written word of God instead of our past sinful way of life.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

The following quote from Paul says the same thing above. That Jesus frees those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to grow through practice to obey the law of God, the way of the Spirit, which shows the separation of sin from our character as we obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments, thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins daily, as we forgive others sins against us as Jesus taught us to pray.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, you are only seeing part of Paul's message. The part where Jesus daily removes our "condemnation" for past sins as our High Priest. Jesus makes us "pure, just as He is pure" every day. However, there is more to Paul's message than how Jesus removes sins, making us "pure, just as He is pure", the actual transformation of our character to "no longer follow our sinful nature", to "keep" myself "pure, just as He is pure" by following the way of the Spirit guaranteed by the prophets in the written word of God instead of our past sinful way of life.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

The following quote from Paul says the same thing above. That Jesus frees those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to grow through practice to obey the law of God, the way of the Spirit, which shows the separation of sin from our character as we obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments, thanks to Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins daily, as we forgive others sins against us as Jesus taught us to pray.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are teaching holiness theology, which is a false doctrine.

Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

If you don't separate the spiritual from the physical, you will not understand the Gospel and justification by faith.

Paul struggled with sin because of his Adamic nature, Paul said, "For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing (Adam) for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

The spiritual and the physical are in conflict with each other. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

According to you, you have overcome the flesh. We cannot overcome the flesh because we are still here on this earth in our unredeemed, sinful adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

 

[John Mullally]

Progressive Biblical revelation: Acts and the Epistles are the portions of the Bible that are written specifically to the New Covenant believers after the Mystery of the Gospel is revealed (Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 2:2; Colossians 4:3). Many portions, but not all, of the books in the Bible that we term as Gospels (i.e. Matt, Mark, Luke, John) are also addressed to New Covenant believers. Some portions of the Gospels deal strictly with the Old Covenant, such as Jesus's going over the Law with the Pharisees - note that no one is saved by keeping the Mosaic Law (Luke 18:9-14, Romans 3:20).

Start of the New Covenant:The New Covenant in Jesus blood is detailed in Matthew 26:28 amd 1 Corinthians 11:25. Also no one received the Holy Spirit outside of some OT Prophets until after the resurrection (John 20:21-22).

John 20:21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.​

The mystery of the gospel and the mystery of the deity of Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 3:16) are only revealed in the NT. If the Old Covenant was without fault there would be no need for the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:7). The Temple curtain was split upon Jesus's crucifixion (Matthew 27:51) - as the Father shows we are now in the Covenant of Jesus's blood.

Prioritizing New Covenant scripture over the OT: Jesus relates reconciling New Covenant doctrine with Old Covenant doctrine as putting new wine into old wineskins (Mark 2:18-22). I am not saying that understanding the Old Testament is a waste of time - many sections of the NT can only be understood through knowledge of the OT. Where possible, I believe our understanding should defer to New Covenant scripture (think new wineskins) as final authority - again because Biblical revelation is progressive and New Covenent scriptures were written specifically to New Covenant believers after the mystery of the Gospel was revealed, In the Jerusalem Decree (Acts 15:23-29), the Apostles agreed that the Gentile believers were not bound to almost all of the Mosaic Law - this was reiterated by Paul in Acts 21:24-25 about 15 years later.

Acts 15:23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.​

Lawlessness concerns: Being spiritually reborn (with the process demonstrated in Acts 2:36-41) and following New Covenant directives tamps down lawlessness. For example, loving God and your neighbors, included in the OT and reiterated in the Epistles (James 2:8 and Romans 13:8), fulfills the Law. Paul speaks of his strategy for overcomomg the flesh in 1 Corinthians 9:27.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.​

 

[guevaraj]

You are teaching holiness theology, which is a false doctrine.

Brother, who taught you to reject God's written word?

So prepare your minds for action and exercise self-control. Put all your hope in the gracious salvation that will come to you when Jesus Christ is revealed to the world. So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:13-16 NLT)​

Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

We are perfect when Jesus says "your sins are forgiven", just as the following man was forgiven by Jesus. Paul taught the same thing that Jesus teaches! The man in this next passage is made "pure, just as He is pure" when Jesus says "your sins are forgiven". How long this man remains "pure, just as He is pure" will require practice in his new birth, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, “Be encouraged, my child! Your sins are forgiven.” But some of the teachers of religious law said to themselves, “That’s blasphemy! Does he think he’s God?” Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he asked them, “Why do you have such evil thoughts in your hearts? Is it easier to say ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or ‘Stand up and walk’? So I will prove to you that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins.” Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home! Fear swept through the crowd as they saw this happen. And they praised God for giving humans such authority. (Matthew 9:2-8 NLT)​

Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

Jesus "has" provided the remedy to our sinful nature by allowing us to be born again through practice thanks to His forgiving our past sins as our High Priest, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

If you don't separate the spiritual from the physical, you will not understand the Gospel and justification by faith.

The spiritual is our wanting to obey God's Eleven Commandments and the physical is our disobeying the Eleven Commandments and the solution is Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins to allow us to grow through practice to obey the Eleven Commandments as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

Paul struggled with sin because of his Adamic nature, Paul said, "For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing (Adam) for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

Paul gives the remedy! Jesus' cycle of forgiveness allows us to grow through practice to overcome our sinful nature in our new birth just as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

The spiritual and the physical are in conflict with each other. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Read more and Paul gives us the remedy! Jesus's cycle of forgiving our past sins allows us to grow through practice like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

According to you, you have overcome the flesh. We cannot overcome the flesh because we are still here on this earth in our unredeemed, sinful adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

Jesus "has" overcome our sinful nature through His cycle of forgiving our past sins in our new birth, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. You have an excuse invented by humans to continue sinning until heaven, contrary to Paul's message in the following passage where Jesus "has" already freed us in our past from "the power of sin that leads to death" through "the power of the life-giving Spirit" and we are growing in obedience to Jesus' Eleven Commandments and we are not waiting until Jesus takes us to heaven to be free from "the power of sin that leads to death".

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the son return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, who taught you to reject God's written word?

So prepare your minds for action and exercise self-control. Put all your hope in the gracious salvation that will come to you when Jesus Christ is revealed to the world. So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:13-16 NLT)​

We are perfect when Jesus says "your sins are forgiven", just as the following man was forgiven by Jesus. Paul taught the same thing that Jesus teaches! The man in this next passage is made "pure, just as He is pure" when Jesus says "your sins are forgiven". How long this man remains "pure, just as He is pure" will require practice in his new birth, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, “Be encouraged, my child! Your sins are forgiven.” But some of the teachers of religious law said to themselves, “That’s blasphemy! Does he think he’s God?” Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he asked them, “Why do you have such evil thoughts in your hearts? Is it easier to say ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or ‘Stand up and walk’? So I will prove to you that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins.” Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home! Fear swept through the crowd as they saw this happen. And they praised God for giving humans such authority. (Matthew 9:2-8 NLT)​

Jesus "has" provided the remedy to our sinful nature by allowing us to be born again through practice thanks to His forgiving our past sins as our High Priest, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

The spiritual is our wanting to obey God's Eleven Commandments and the physical is our disobeying the Eleven Commandments and the solution is Jesus' cycle of forgiving our past sins to allow us to grow through practice to obey the Eleven Commandments as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

Paul gives the remedy! Jesus' cycle of forgiveness allows us to grow through practice to overcome our sinful nature in our new birth just as a child learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

Read more and Paul gives us the remedy! Jesus's cycle of forgiving our past sins allows us to grow through practice like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

Jesus "has" overcome our sinful nature through His cycle of forgiving our past sins in our new birth, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. You have an excuse invented by humans to continue sinning until heaven, contrary to Paul's message in the following passage where Jesus "has" already freed us in our past from "the power of sin that leads to death" through "the power of the life-giving Spirit" and we are growing in obedience to Jesus' Eleven Commandments and we are not waiting until Jesus takes us to heaven to be free from "the power of sin that leads to death".

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the son return of Jesus, Jorge

Has it occurred to you that God is absent. The reason that he is absent is because he does not fellowship with sinners, which we are all one of. This is why, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. You seem to think that you have already arrived. Paul did not teach that we are holy. Paul taught that he was a sinner saved by the grace of God.

 

[guevaraj]

Has it occurred to you that God is absent. The reason that he is absent is because he does not fellowship with sinners, which we are all one of.

Brother, don't you realize that God can live "in you" when you honor God with your body? Could God be any closer than "in you"?

Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NLT)​

This is why, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

Our faith is in our High Priest Jesus' daily forgiveness of our past sins, making it possible to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. This growth through practice is not possible under the law alone, we need our High Priest Jesus' daily forgiveness of past sins to grow through practice in obedience to the Eleven Commandments.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

You seem to think that you have already arrived. Paul did not teach that we are holy. Paul taught that he was a sinner saved by the grace of God.

I have arrived when Jesus forgives my past sins as He forgave in the following passage, but how long I remain "pure, just as He is pure" is the growth through practice made possible by our High Priest Jesus' forgiveness of our past sins for as long as this cycle takes for us to grow under His grace like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, “Be encouraged, my child! Your sins are forgiven.” But some of the teachers of religious law said to themselves, “That’s blasphemy! Does he think he’s God?” Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he asked them, “Why do you have such evil thoughts in your hearts? Is it easier to say ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or ‘Stand up and walk’? So I will prove to you that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins.” Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home! Fear swept through the crowd as they saw this happen. And they praised God for giving humans such authority. (Matthew 9:2-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, don't you realize that God can live "in you" when you honor God with your body? Could God be any closer than "in you"?

Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NLT)​

Our faith is in our High Priest Jesus' daily forgiveness of our past sins, making it possible to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. This growth through practice is not possible under the law alone, we need our High Priest Jesus' daily forgiveness of past sins to grow through practice in obedience to the Eleven Commandments.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

I have arrived when Jesus forgives my past sins as He forgave in the following passage, but how long I remain "pure, just as He is pure" is the growth through practice made possible by our High Priest Jesus' forgiveness of our past sins for as long as this cycle takes for us to grow under His grace like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, “Be encouraged, my child! Your sins are forgiven.” But some of the teachers of religious law said to themselves, “That’s blasphemy! Does he think he’s God?” Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he asked them, “Why do you have such evil thoughts in your hearts? Is it easier to say ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or ‘Stand up and walk’? So I will prove to you that the Son of Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins.” Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home! Fear swept through the crowd as they saw this happen. And they praised God for giving humans such authority. (Matthew 9:2-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are attempting to bring the "Not yet" into the now. Paul taught that we are sinners saved by grace. We have not been totally sanctified yet because we are still in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

Paul wrote, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

You continue to ignore such scriptures because you cannot accept the fact that Christians are still sinners.

 

[guevaraj]

You are attempting to bring the "Not yet" into the now. Paul taught that we are sinners saved by grace. We have not been totally sanctified yet because we are still in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

Brother, that is consistent with what I have been telling you in the following passage. The only difference is that you are waiting for Jesus unchanged, whereas the passage says that we are growing in likeness to Him and not waiting for Jesus to come back to be like Him.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

Paul wrote, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18. You continue to ignore such scriptures because you cannot accept the fact that Christians are still sinners.

I am not the one ignoring part of Paul's message in the following passage. You see that Jesus forgives, but you do not see how this forgiveness cycle helps those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments, as a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[RobertPate]

Brother, that is consistent with what I have been telling you in the following passage. The only difference is that you are waiting for Jesus unchanged, whereas the passage says that we are growing in likeness to Him and not waiting for Jesus to come back to be like Him.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

I am not the one ignoring part of Paul's message in the following passage. You see that Jesus forgives, but you do not see how this forgiveness cycle helps those "who no longer follow our sinful nature" to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments, as a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are mixing the spiritual with the physical. The results is confusion. Spiritually we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. You are making Paul out to be a liar. Paul struggled with sin because of his lower Adamic nature. "I find then a law, that when I do good, evil is present with me" Romans 7:21. The evil that is present with Paul is his lower Adamic nature. The Adamic nature can be subdued, but it cannot be annihilated.