The ability of God - Does God always get His will done?

[BBAS 64]

I'm starting this thread with a post from Bill. Let us discuss and be kind and understanding.



Good evening Bill! For God everything is possible. I will answer you by an example of God's will and man's will.

Acts 8
25 So, when they had solemnly testified and spoken the word of the Lord, they started back to Jerusalem, and were preaching the gospel to many villages of the Samaritans.
26 But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27 So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:

“HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT, SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH. 33“IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY; WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION? FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH.”

34 The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 37 [And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

Now to the question. Let's say when Philip heard the voice of the Holy Spirit and didn't choose to follow the voice. Then the eunuch didn't get the message of Christ and wasn't saved. Who would be to be blamed? God? No, God wanted for Philip to deliver the message to the eunuch and save him. Philip? Yes, he was the one who chose to not follow the voice of Holy Spirit.

This is the situation of God and man. God wants everyone saved, but because of man not everyone is.

Christ love,
Peter

Good Day, Peter

I wish you would have picked Jonah as he did choose to disobey for reasons we well know from the text. Philip on the other hand did choose to follow, so to the construction of the question is somewhat flawed IMHO... never the less.

Can we agree on some basics here about Phillip.

His heart was circumcised Eze 36 ( heart of stone removed etc..) by the work of God and he was gifted both repentance and faith. We have discussed these tings before so can we just assume this things from the start.

Ok so here goes in your question when did the Holy Spirit know/learn that Phillip was not going to follow his direct instructions?

Before He impressed it in his heart to do so, or did he only learn after impressing that desire on Phillip's heart and mind?

Blame .. wow. Can we take this slow?

I assume you are going to address

Isa 46:8"Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,' calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.


Peter I hope I am never viewed as unkind

In Him,

Bill

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is simple sentence structure brother, who is performing the action verb in Romans 11:32?

Also, see edit above.

Print out the text/verse. It doesn't render on many screens, especially cell phones.

 

[98cwitr]

Print out the text/verse. It doesn't render on many screens, especially cell phones.

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

I think you posted that before.
I don't know why?

 

[98cwitr]

I think you posted that before.
I don't know why?

I've explained why 4 posts ago, but since you're mobile:

God binds man to disobedience. Man cannot choose to be righteous (Romans 8:8). Therefore God must give you a new heart: Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31. All ability to do anything good is God's work, we cannot claim any of it:

John 15:5 [Full Chapter]
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've explained why 4 posts ago, but since you're mobile:

God binds man to disobedience. Man cannot choose to be righteous (Romans 8:8). Therefore God must give you a new heart: Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31. All ability to do anything good is God's work, we cannot claim any of it:

John 15:5 [Full Chapter]
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Basically 'looks' fine. Scriptural.
Not sure though what the purpose or gist (reason) for this post is though, originally or now ?

 

[RDKirk]

Now to the question. Let's say when Philip heard the voice of the Holy Spirit and didn't choose to follow the voice. Then the eunuch didn't get the message of Christ and wasn't saved. Who would be to be blamed? God? No, God wanted for Philip to deliver the message to the eunuch and save him. Philip? Yes, he was the one who chose to not follow the voice of Holy Spirit.

This is the situation of God and man. God wants everyone saved, but because of man not everyone is.

RC Sprauls proposed a tool for thinking about this. He named "three wills" of God:

1. Preceptive Will: The will of God expressed by His precepts and commands, such as "Thou shalt not commit adultery." God's Preceptive Will expresses the will He intends for people to obey. God expresses His Preceptive Will to man through inspired prophets/preachers. Men are able to disobey, but there will be consequences for disobedience.

2. Dispositional Will. This can be called God's "druthers," or His desires. It is an expression of God's consistent disposition toward man. An example of God's Dispositional Will is "God desires that all men be saved." This is also expressed through inspired prophets/preachers. Man is able to act at cross purposes to God's Dispositional Will.

3. Sovereign Will. The expression of God's Sovereign Will is history. What has happened was God's sovereign will. We don't know God's Sovereign Will until it actually occurs: What occurs is His Sovereign Will. Corollary with Sovereign Will are the combination of God's characteristics of omnipotence and omniscience.

Now, with regard to the Ethiopian eunuch, my personal belief is that if through God's omniscience He saw/sees/will see that man as saved in heaven in our future, then that is His Sovereign Will and nothing Phillip could have done would have thwarted it. If Phillip had been disobedient, the eunuch would have been saved by some other means.

I don't subscribe to the idea that one man can determine the salvation of another man. That would be giving a man the power of God.

 

[98cwitr]

Basically 'looks' fine. Scriptural.
Not sure though what the purpose or gist (reason) for this post is though, originally or now ?

Then brother, how can you say man can trump God's Will?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then brother, how can you say man can trump God's Will?

I said man can disobey God. (I think that's what I posted; I don't remember now)

 

[98cwitr]

I said man can disobey God. (I think that's what I posted; I don't remember now)

In the sense of the decrees He has given to all of mankind, I would agree. But to clarify, do you believe a man can (or would) be issued a directive by God, individually, and simply refuse?

 

[Ahermit]

...Now to the question. Let's say when Philip heard the voice of the Holy Spirit and didn't choose to follow the voice. Then the eunuch didn't get the message of Christ and wasn't saved. Who would be to be blamed? God? No, God wanted for Philip to deliver the message to the eunuch and save him. Philip? Yes, he was the one who chose to not follow the voice of Holy Spirit.

This is the situation of God and man. God wants everyone saved, but because of man not everyone is...

Nobody is to blame.

Nothing is deficient in God's will. If Phillip did not go, something else was meant to happen. Sometimes things need to be prepared, lessons learnt/practiced, to ripen, before the fruit gets used.

John 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In the sense of the decrees He has given to all of mankind, I would agree. But to clarify, do you believe a man can (or would) be issued a directive by God, individually, and simply refuse?

Obviously in Scripture this has happened often.

Then, some times, they repent.
Other times, they don't.

 

[topher694]

But to clarify, do you believe a man can (or would) be issued a directive by God, individually, and simply refuse?

Um, that happens all the time in the Bible.

 

[98cwitr]

Obviously in Scripture this has happened often.

Then, some times, they repent.
Other times, they don't.

And can you and I find common ground in as to why they dont? Can we agree is that one has been given the nature (heart) to repent and another as not?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God says otherwise, justly and righteously too.

Somewhere He says "This is the way you can see the difference between WHAT HAPPENS TO those who DO what is right, righteous, and those who do not do what is right, who practice UNrighteousness. "

Nobody is to blame.

 

[98cwitr]

Um, that happens all the time in the Bible.

Why would an Omniscient God, in your mind, issue a directive He knows will be refused? To bring about His Will while simultaneously righteously condemning (or simply disciplining) the refuser?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think so, no.

And can you and I find common ground in as to why they dont? Can we agree is that one has been given the nature (heart) to repent and another as not?

 

[98cwitr]

Nobody is to blame.

Nothing is deficient in God's will. If Phillip did not go, something else was meant to happen. Sometimes things need to be prepared, lessons learnt/practiced, to ripen, before the fruit gets used.

John 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come".

While I think "blame" could be cast on disobedience (because otherwise it's a slippery slope; ie: Judas was just following God's Will to be betray Jesus and therefore he's totally absolved of any wrongdoing), I do see your point and agree: "Nothing is deficient in God's will"

 

[98cwitr]

I don't think so, no.

Then why, in your mind, are some willing and others are not if it's not dictated by their natures?

 

[topher694]

Why would an Omniscient God, in your mind, issue a directive He knows will be refused? To bring about His Will while simultaneously righteously condemning (or simply disciplining) the refuser?

Because He is good AND just. Not one or the other.