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The 7th day Sabbath Command Points to the Millennial Kingdom and the Final Kingdom of Heaven.

Bob S

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Hi JFF, you are telling us that Jesus didn't accomplish all He came to do. If all is not accomplished (fulfilled) (brought to an end) that would mean that we have to observe the entire law (613). Jews were under the entire law and Jesus warned them: 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Your contention is that Jesus has not fulfilled everything, so the law is still binding, well not all of the Law according to you. So, I ask you why Jesus would have even mentioned the jots and tittles? You have taken it upon yourself to disobey His command about the jots and tittles and have dismissed the laws that deal with ceremonial and civil laws, pus you have made Paul a liar. You want me to believe Paul was a liar? If that is correct, then everything he wrote becomes suspicious. It makes Jesus wrong for choosing Paul to spread the Gospel. It makes the early church wrong for including Paul's writings in the canon.

You believe all of us who believe Jesus brought an end to the prophesies and the Law are Lawless???? If not so, then why did you include Matt7:23. Let me inform you that we are not lawless, on the contrary, we are under the Royal Law of Love, the command Jesus gave us in Jn15:9-14 and John magnified in 1Jn3:19-24 This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. Amen! and Amen!

In Christ, Bob
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Just remember What Christ said, if you follow his directives you cannot go wrong that is certain.

Blessings.
 
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Bob S

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Just remember What Christ said, if you follow his directives you cannot go wrong that is certain.

Blessings.
I am pretty sure you want to stop our debate and that is fine with me. I can't help but wonder what was going through your mind as you read my last reply. In Christ, Bob
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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I just wrote this but have not yet posted it as a new thread here it is have a look and let me know what you think;

Faith and Trust in the Bible: Understanding Their Meaning and Importance


Psalm 91

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence. He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler. You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day, Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you. Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked.
Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place, No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling; For He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you in all your ways. In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone. You shall tread upon the lion and the cobra, The young lion and the serpent you shall trample underfoot.
Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known My name. He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him, And show him My salvation.


Faith and trust are two essential principles in the Bible, but they are not the same. Faith is believing in God and His promises, even when we cannot see the outcome. Trust is relying on Him completely, surrendering control, and acting on that faith. Both are necessary in our relationship with God. The Bible provides many examples where faith and trust go hand in hand, showing us how to depend on God in all situations.


Faith is believing that God exists, that His promises are true, and that He will do what He says. It is described in Hebrews as, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is more than just knowledge; it is trust in God’s character and a willingness to follow Him, even without seeing the full picture. Abraham is a powerful example of faith. When God promised him descendants as numerous as the stars, Abraham believed, even though it seemed impossible. Because of this, God counted him as righteous, saying, "And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness." (Genesis 15:6) Later, Abraham’s faith was tested when God told him to sacrifice Isaac, the very son through whom the promise was to be fulfilled. "By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son." (Hebrews 11:17) Abraham had faith in God’s promise and trusted that God would provide, even if it meant raising Isaac from the dead. His faith was not just belief—it was followed by action.


Trust is deeper than faith. It is the willingness to depend on God in every situation, even when circumstances seem uncertain. The Bible teaches, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." (Proverbs 3:5-6) Trust is not just believing in God—it is living every day with the assurance that He is in control. Moses showed great trust in God when leading Israel out of Egypt. When the Israelites were trapped between Pharaoh’s army and the Red Sea, fear overcame them. But Moses trusted in God’s power, declaring, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will accomplish for you today." (Exodus 14:13) Moses acted on that trust, stretching out his rod as God commanded, and the Red Sea parted. This demonstrates that trust requires action—standing firm in God’s promises and obeying His commands.


One of the most striking examples of faith and trust is found in Peter’s experience of walking on water. "And Peter answered Him and said, 'Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.' So He said, 'Come.' And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, 'Lord, save me!' And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, 'O you of little faith, why did you doubt?'" (Matthew 14:28-31) This passage illustrates that faith begins with believing, but trust must be maintained even in the face of fear and uncertainty. Peter had enough faith to step out of the boat, but when he doubted, his trust wavered, and he began to sink. Jesus' response shows that trust keeps faith strong.


Jesus demonstrated the highest level of faith and trust in God. He knew the Father’s plan of salvation and fully trusted in it, even when it led to suffering and death. Before His crucifixion, Jesus prayed, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done." (Luke 22:42) Even in His greatest trial, Jesus trusted the Father completely. His trust led to the ultimate sacrifice, bringing salvation to all who believe.


Faith and trust are inseparable. Faith is believing in God’s promises; trust is living by those promises, even in difficulty. Faith believes that God will act, while trust moves forward based on that belief. Abraham believed God would give him a son, but he also obeyed when God told him to leave his homeland. Faith is foundational, but trust is applied. The Israelites had faith when they saw miracles in Egypt, but they failed to trust God when they faced hardship in the wilderness. Faith grows through trials, and trust sustains us during them. When challenges arise, trust helps us remain steadfast, knowing God is faithful.


Faith brings salvation, as Jesus said, "He who believes in Me has everlasting life." (John 6:47) Trust brings peace, for "You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You." (Isaiah 26:3) Faith leads to obedience, for "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) Trust deepens our relationship with God, for "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, and whose hope is the LORD." (Jeremiah 17:7)


Faith and trust are essential for a life devoted to God. Faith believes in God’s promises, and trust acts on that belief. Abraham, Moses, and Jesus all demonstrated how true faith leads to complete reliance on God. As we face challenges in life, we must not only believe in God but also trust Him in every step. When we place our full trust in God, we will see His faithfulness and experience His peace, knowing that He is always in control.

Peace be with you BOB, always.
 
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Bob S

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Hi JWW, I love your post. Two ingredients that are a sign of one who truly loves Jesus. Not to take away from your thoughts there is a third ingredient that binds us to God and our fellow man, that is love. Without this ingredient we (God and us) would lack compassion and forgiveness.

The only other comment I would make is the meaning of James 2:26. Many people would interpret that as meaning works of the Law. Good deeds are the result of our faith. Faith without any good works for God and our fellow man is dead.

Peace to you too, Bob
 
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Bob S

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Hi Bob I enjoyed our discussions but we are now turning round and round, what do you propose?
I just wanted to prove there really is not any dispute between Jesus words and the writings of Paul. Most all churches trust the writings of Paul to determine beliefs. I am sorry I was not able to help you to see that there is not any conflict.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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thank You for your comments! I will adjust the text about James.
 
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DamianWarS

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I broadly agree, but you seem to be approaching it 10 commandment-centric. The 4th commandment's message echoes the message of the 7th day of creation (not the other way around), and it is this day that is the foundation to sabbath meaning that the 4th flows out of. The creation account is written in a nested/layered chiastic structure where each concept has an opening and is paralleled with a close. The clearest example is Gen 1:1 compared with Gen 2:2

1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

these act like bookends to the account, and both reveal to us their meaning. 2:1 is a conclusionary statement, thus 1:1 is an introductionary statement as the two mirror each other. day 1 light is created and separated from darkness, day 4 the expanse of darkness is filled with luminaries. Day 2 the waters are separated forming sky and water, day 5 the waters are filled with fish and the sky is filled with birds. day 3 land is separated from the waters, day 6 the land is filled with animal life. There is a theme of a organizating/separation on days 1-3 and days 4-6 are then filled in the same order. "filled" or "fatten" has a rooted Hebraic meaning of "create". God does not "create" in days 1-3, he creates on days 4-6.

This leaves us with 7th day. Similar to 1:1 and 2:1 the two parallel each other and reveal to us a meaning that is better when together The 7th day in this chiastic structure pairs with before light was spoken in 1:2. "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." The 7th day is the antithesis to this formless empty void. darkness is contrasted with light, empty with filled, incomplete with complete, chaos with rest, formless with formed, etc... the 7th day is the crux of the account and it is shown as the answer to the chaos before light was spoken. In this sense, the 7th day shows us salvation, but not just the 7th day but each day started from when light is spoken into darkness. The 7th day shows us the completed work of God.

This can be paralleled with the 4th commandment. in the 4th the charge is rest to remember these salvation values that the 7th day presents that are so deeply contrasted with darkness and chaos. The 4th is clearly given to the heads of the households as the instruction is that all members of the household are also too rest saying "neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns." this is a top down trend demonstrated from the leaders all the way down to the animals or those passing through. the things with animals or salves (or for that matter all under someone's authority) is that they have no authority to rest. They can only rest if they are given rest and they cannot take it for themselves and only one with authority may give them that rest and the one with the authority is the master. This is a deep salvation metaphor, so again, salvation shows itself as a central focus of the sabbath/7th day.

Who is the master of the Sabbath? Jesus declares himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8) The Lord of something is the master of it, Jesus is master of the Sabbath which implicitly shows us it is he who has authority to give rest and this is a rest that we cannot take ourselves.

The bible has a lot of unfolding and layered meanings to it. The creation account can be a foreshadow to Christ's coming, it can also point to the resurrection, and further still, the restoration of all things as it can also point to the chaos and unrest in our hearts, the subsequent light that is spoken into us, starting a process that ends in rest. This shouldn't be too hard to embrace as light into darkness is probably the most well know salvation methpor in the bible. Jesus calls him self the light of the world, John 1 is a parallel to the creation account and Paul also goes back to creation to show us the meaning of this light in 2 Cor 4:6. All the layers have meaning and it's all important, to me however the gospel message is the most relevant and one we can share with others of how the 7th day/sabbath points to a desire for God to be reunited with us through his light, through his process of transforming our predisposition of darkness and chaos into one of light and rest. I would even go as far to say that although physical rest is used to show us spiritual rest, it is the spiritual rest that we should be focused on over the physical. God didn't rest in the sense he was tired, he ceased working. why did he cease? because the work was finished. It is this finished work that the 7th day proclaims and the process first starts in our lives.
 
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