the 7 churches

[LittleLambofJesus]

My candlestick is not based in Rome or in Asia

Where is it based?

 

[rockytopva]

Where is it based?

Does not a candlestick have a base? Could it be then...

Ephesus - Based on Peter
Smyrna - Based on the Apostle of the Gentiles, Paul.
Pergamos - Based in Constantinople
Thyatira - Based in Rome (I am not anti-Catholic)
Sardis - Denominational based churches
Philadelphia- Based on Wesley
Laodicea - Based in America

 

[rockytopva]

And an example of a Philadelphian based church...

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/remembering-my-old-pastor.8074624/

Our great dis-advantage, though, is that we could not keep the revival going. Our church will be 100 years old next year and I am afraid we took the same paths as the Methodist in that we don't have revivals (seemly) every month like we used to.

 

[The Times]

John is told by Jesus to physically write urgent letters to the seven apostolic messengers in Turkey, to firstly reprimand them, secondly to give them a prophetic timeline and hope to get their congregational houses in order and lastly to get them to re-commence preaching yet again from the little sweet book to the peoples, tongues of the many nations. This is the recommissioning of the preaching from the little sweet book, the gospel. It highly suggests that after the turbulent times of 70AD and the decades that followed, the Church went into hiding and the commission to preach the gospel was put on hold, for fear of reprisals from the jews who lost everything, including their country, their temple and their people.

John comforts the Church, by saying don't worry, because the five Herodian kings are dead, the sixth Agrippa II is still alive but he has been exiled, without the beast that was THEN under the Herodian Dynasty, but NOW is not.

John was communicating his go ahead blessings to the seven congregational apostles to preach the gospel yet again.

So the letters are directed and are solely purposed for the seven Eastern Orthodox congregations in the Turkish provinces and this is why Jesus instructs John to urgently write physical letters to them and to tell them to get going with their commission, otherwise he will remove their crown/anointing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Does not a candlestick have a base? Could it be then...

Thyatira - Based in Rome (I am not anti-Catholic)

Glad to hear that.......not sure what the RCs think about it tho.....

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...st-four-churches.8064465/page-3#post-72875759

Revelation 2:20
Thou suffer the woman/wife of thee Jezebel, the one saying herself Prophetess to be and she is teaching and deceiving the bond-slaves of Me to prostitute and to be eating idol-sacrifices.

Revelation 18:7
As much as glorifies Herself, and indulges, be giving to Her tormenting and mourning
that in Her heart she is saying
'I am sitting as Queen, and widow not I am, and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival........................

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.

 

[rockytopva]

Glad to hear that.......not sure what the RCs think about it tho.....

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...st-four-churches.8064465/page-3#post-72875759

Revelation 2:20
Thou suffer the woman/wife of thee Jezebel, the one saying herself Prophetess to be and she is teaching and deceiving the bond-slaves of Me to prostitute and to be eating idol-sacrifices.

Revelation 18:7
As much as glorifies Herself, and indulges, be giving to Her tormenting and mourning
that in Her heart she is saying
'I am sitting as Queen, and widow not I am, and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival........................

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.

Or, from reading this thread.. The Orthodox either!

 

[rockytopva]

And an example of a Philadelphian based church...

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/remembering-my-old-pastor.8074624/

Our great dis-advantage, though, is that we could not keep the revival going. Our church will be 100 years old next year and I am afraid we took the same paths as the Methodist in that we don't have revivals (seemly) every month like we used to.

The definition of the Philadelphia base.. As given by Wesley himself...What is a Methodist? by John Wesley ... The great and the glorious way! It is too bad that it took 1,700 years to perfect!

1. We believe, indeed, that "all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God." We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule both of Christian faith and practice.

2. We do not place our religion, or any part of it, in being attached to any peculiar mode of speaking, any quaint or uncommon set of expressions.

3. Our religion does not lie in doing what God has not enjoined, or abstaining from what he hath not forbidden. It does not lie in the form of our apparel, in the posture of our body, or the covering of our heads; nor yet in abstaining from marriage, or from meats and drinks, which are all good if received with thanksgiving.

4. Nor, lastly, is he distinguished by laying the whole stress of religion on any single part of it

5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has "the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him;" one who "loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"

6. He is therefore happy in God, yea, always happy, as having in him "a well of water springing up into everlasting life," and overflowing his soul with peace and joy. "Perfect love" having now "cast out fear," he "rejoices evermore." He "rejoices in the Lord always," even "in God his Saviour;" and in the Father, "through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom he hath now received the atonement." "Having" found "redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of his sins," he cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks back on the horrible pit out of which he is delivered; when he sees "all his transgressions blotted out as a cloud, and his iniquities as a thick cloud." He cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks on the state wherein he now is; "being justified freely, and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." For "he that believeth, hath the witness" of this "in himself;" being now the son of God by faith. "Because he is a son, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into his heart, crying, Abba, Father!" And "the Spirit itself beareth witness with his spirit, that he is a child of God." He rejoiceth also, whenever he looks forward, "in hope of the glory that shall be revealed;" yea, this his joy is full, and all his bones cry out, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his abundant mercy, hath begotten me again to a living hope -- of an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for me!"

7. And he who hath this hope, thus "full of immortality, in everything giveth thanks;" as knowing that this (whatsoever it is) "is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning him." From him, therefore, he cheerfully receives all, saying, "Good is the will of the Lord;" and whether the Lord giveth or taketh away, equally "blessing the name of the Lord." For he hath "learned, in whatsoever state he is, therewith to be content." He knoweth "both how to be abased and how to abound

8. For indeed he "prays without ceasing." It is given him "always to pray, and not to faint."

9. And while he thus always exercises his love to God, by praying without ceasing, rejoicing evermore, and in everything giving thanks, this commandment is written in his heart, "That he who loveth God, love his brother also." And he accordingly loves his neighbour as himself; he loves every man as his own soul. His heart is full of love to all mankind, to every child of "the Father of the spirits of all flesh

10. For he is "pure in heart." The love of God has purified his heart from all revengeful passions, from envy, malice, and wrath, from every unkind temper or malign affection. It hath cleansed him from pride and haughtiness of spirit, whereof alone cometh contention. And he hath now "put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering:" So that he "forbears and forgives, if he had a quarrel against any; even as God in Christ hath forgiven him." And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is utterly cut off. For none can take from him what he desires; seeing he "loves not the world, nor" any of "the things of the world;" being now "crucified to the world, and the world crucified to him;" being dead to all that is in the world, both to "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life." For "all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of his name."

11. Agreeable to this his one desire, is the one design of his life, namely, "not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him." His one intention at all times and in all things is, not to please himself, but Him whom his soul loveth. He has a single eye. And because "his eye is single, his whole body is full of light." Indeed, where the loving eye of the soul is continually fixed upon God, there can be no darkness at all, "but the whole is light; as when the bright shining of a candle doth enlighten the house." God then reigns alone. All that is in the soul is holiness to the Lord. There is not a motion in his heart, but is according to his will. Every thought that arises points to Him, and is in obedience to the law of Christ.

12. And the tree is known by its fruits. For as he loves God, so he keeps his commandments; not only some, or most of them, but all, from the least to the greatest. He is not content to "keep the whole law, and offend in one point;" but has, in all points, "a conscience void of offence towards God and towards man."

13. All the commandments of God he accordingly keeps, and that with all his might. For his obedience is in proportion to his love, the source from whence it flows. And therefore, loving God with all his heart, he serves him with all his strength.

14. By consequence, whatsoever he doeth, it is all to the glory of God. His one invariable rule is this, "Whatsoever ye do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

15. Nor do the customs of the world at all hinder his "running the race that is set before him." He knows that vice does not lose its nature, though it becomes ever so fashionable; and remembers, that "every man is to give an account of himself to God." He cannot, therefore, "follow" even "a multitude to do evil." He cannot "fare sumptuously every day," or "make provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof." He cannot "lay up treasures upon earth," any more than he can take fire into his bosom. He cannot "adorn himself," on any pretence, "with gold or costly apparel." He cannot join in or countenance any diversion which has the least tendency to vice of any kind. He cannot "speak evil" of his neighbour, any more than he can lie either for God or man. He cannot utter an unkind word of any one; for love keeps the door of his lips. He cannot speak "idle words;" "no corrupt communication" ever "comes out of his mouth," as is all that "which is" not "good to the use of edifying," not "fit to minister grace to the hearers." But "whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are" justly "of good report," he thinks, and speaks, and acts, "adorning the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in all things."

16. Lastly. As he has time, he "does good unto all men;" unto neighbours and strangers, friends and enemies: And that in every possible kind; not only to their bodies, by "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those that are sick or in prison;" but much more does he labour to do good to their souls, as of the ability which God giveth; to awaken those that sleep in death; to bring those who are awakened to the atoning blood, that, "being justified by faith, they may have peace with God;" and to provoke those who have peace with God to abound more in love and in good works.

17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked

 

[faroukfarouk]

i think the 7 churches, 7 lampstands, 7 stars, 7 trumpets, 7 seals , 7 bowls etc etc all represent for 1 of each one of the 7. haha like i said it feels like i'm high now..ignore me

Seems very clearly like it indicates that God communicates directly with each church rather than supposedly rely on some earthly hierarchy.

 

[rockytopva]

Seems very clearly like it indicates that God communicates directly with each church rather than supposedly rely on some earthly hierarchy.

And to each individual.... After each congregational message the Lord pauses to say...

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; .... - Revelation 2:7

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Seems very clearly like it indicates that God communicates directly with each church rather than supposedly rely on some earthly hierarchy.

i'm sorry i am confused

 

[faroukfarouk]

i'm sorry i am confused

Like, the 7 churches had 7 lampstands; each was separate; the passage in Revelation speaks of messages to the angel of each church.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Like, the 7 churches had 7 lampstands; each was separate; the passage in Revelation speaks of messages to the angel of each church.

i c

 

[rockytopva]

i c

Simply put... All Christian congregations are not the same. Pray that God leads you to the Christian congregation best for you!

 

[HTacianas]

ha ha this is going to be a really weird question because i don't know how to explain it but is it possible the 7 churches in revelation represent one church who represents those 7 churches? i don't know when i was reading it ..something hit me and it seemed really familiar to me and sounded like a representation of that one true church. and what about those seven candlesticks? ok you have 7 churches and 7 candlesticks LOL dont they represent that one thing.. no seriously look, read it closely..and could the seven stars represent a crown or something like the seven seals!! lol..i dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

Briefly, the letters to the seven churches of Revelation are just that, letters to those individual churches. But the writer is intimately familiar with each of them, and addresses them by what their cities are known for.

The letters were written on the island of Patmos, a small Roman penal colony off the coast of Asia Minor. The writer gave the letter(s) to a messenger, and asked that he deliver them to the "angels" (messengers, i.e., Bishops), who the writer also refers to as stars, of the seven churches. Leaving the island of Patmos, the first port one would reach is the city of Ephesus, therefore the church at Ephesus is addressed first. Each of the other churches are addressed in the order that a messenger would travel in a circuit to reach each one. Beginning at Ephesus, in a circuit, ending at Laodicea. It could just as well have begun with Ephesus and ended with Smyrna. You can see a map here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_churches_of_Asia#/media/File:Seven_churches_of_asia.svg

If we must waste some more ink (or in this case electrons) discussing the church at Laodicea, Laodicea was known for a hot spring just outside the city. The people there built something of an ad hoc aqueduct to bring the hot water to the town for the public baths. Problem was, by the time the water reached the city it was no longer hot, it was lukewarm, and Laodicea was known as the city with the lukewarm baths. The water wasn't cold enough to satisfy thirst, but also wasn't hot enough for a good bath.

The "seven candlesticks" are not so much seven candlesticks, as they are a single candlestick with seven branches, i.e., a menorah. It is representative of the sevenfold Spirit of God, that Spirit having seven characteristics, united as one, and poured out on the earth.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Briefly, the letters to the seven churches of Revelation are just that, letters to those individual churches. But the writer is intimately familiar with each of them, and addresses them by what their cities are known for.

The "seven candlesticks" are not so much seven candlesticks, as they are a single candlestick with seven branches, i.e., a menorah. It is representative of the sevenfold Spirit of God, that Spirit having seven characteristics, united as one, and poured out on the earth.

Yes, the reason being those churches/congregations were formed by John. He was intimately familiar with them before he was exiled to Patmos. Yes, the "candlesticks" are all separate but still all part of the whole Menorah. All part of the whole.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

ha ha this is going to be a really weird question because i don't know how to explain it but is it possible the 7 churches in revelation represent one church who represents those 7 churches? i don't know when i was reading it ..something hit me and it seemed really familiar to me and sounded like a representation of that one true church. and what about those seven candlesticks? ok you have 7 churches and 7 candlesticks LOL dont they represent that one thing.. no seriously look, read it closely..and could the seven stars represent a crown or something like the seven seals!! lol..i dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

You are very correct...no lols about it. Seven is the Biblical number for completion, oneness, whole, eternal just a few ways to describe it. All the numbers from Revelation are to be interpreted by the Bible itself. See the number seven in Matthew 18:21-22:
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

and...

Hebrews 4:3-5:
...And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

I believe the number seven gets its meaning from the above passages, but I'm sure there are more.

You are doing so well! The Holy Spirit is teaching you and that too is very profound and mysterious and so very worthy of praise. So, take time to praise God for this precious gift of learning from Him!

I John 2:26-27:
I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John 14:25-26:
“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

He is true to His Word and you can attest to that ...stand firm!

 

[mark kennedy]

ha ha this is going to be a really weird question because i don't know how to explain it but is it possible the 7 churches in revelation represent one church who represents those 7 churches? i don't know when i was reading it ..something hit me and it seemed really familiar to me and sounded like a representation of that one true church. and what about those seven candlesticks? ok you have 7 churches and 7 candlesticks LOL dont they represent that one thing.. no seriously look, read it closely..and could the seven stars represent a crown or something like the seven seals!! lol..i dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

Those candlesticks are the menorah, and its 7 pronged. Those churches were all founded by Ephesus so there is a sense in which they were all one church. They were the hub and the heart of the first century's mission to the Gentiles, two of those ministries survived nearly a thousand years and they were very into missions.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

You are doing so well! The Holy Spirit is teaching you and that too is very profound and mysterious and so very worthy of praise. So, take time to praise God for this precious gift of learning from Him!

!

k

 

[Davy]

ha ha this is going to be a really weird question because i don't know how to explain it but is it possible the 7 churches in revelation represent one church who represents those 7 churches? i don't know when i was reading it ..something hit me and it seemed really familiar to me and sounded like a representation of that one true church. and what about those seven candlesticks? ok you have 7 churches and 7 candlesticks LOL dont they represent that one thing.. no seriously look, read it closely..and could the seven stars represent a crown or something like the seven seals!! lol..i dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

Very serious matter. Only two out of the seven our Lord Jesus had no problem with, Smyrna and Philadelphia. What understanding did they both have that the other five Churches did not? It should be easy, but most don't like to look at it. I'll even go on record and say most Churches preach away from the idea both Churches held. Can you find what understanding they both shared which none of the other five Churches had?

Rev 2:8-11
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
KJV



Rev 3:7-12
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
KJV