The 144,000... who are they and why only 144,000?

[NightEternal]

they will go through a period of no intercession.

I guess when Jesus said "I will never leave you or forsake you" He was lying. I guess when Jesus said "Lo, I will be with you always, even unto the end of time" He was lying. I guess when the Word says 'He ever lives to make intercession for us" It is lying.

I cannot believe there are still Adventists that believe this 'tough luck-no intercessor-you're on your own-you better be perfect' nonsense. It's an EGW premise through and through, but nowhere to be found in Scripture.

It is preposterous to think this number is literal. How arrogant, elitist and narrow-minded to believe that God is not able to seal more than a literal 144,000.

As for 'nominal' Christianity, most Baptists I know have a better understanding of salavation than many Adventists.

How sad that there are still so many SDA's who think they have to spend thier lives trying to 'achieve' what has already been purchased on thier behalf and have no assurance of salvation whatsoever.

What a defeatist, discouraging, crippling, spiritually bankrupt way to live out your Christian experience.

 

[sentipente]

What a defeatist, discouraging, crippling, spiritually bankrupt way to live out your Christian experience.

It is a triumphalist position from their point of view. They are preparing for the day when they can finally pump their fist at God and say, "See, we were able to take it on the chin without your help." Never underestimate the god complex.

 

[JonMiller]

In Scripture the end times is when we will be the most safe from the devil.

I think that some people are in grevious error here.

JM

 

[sentipente]

JM, what do you mean by "in Scripture?" Do you think that only the Bible is Scripture? Why do we need Scripture? If Scripture is that important why did Adam have no Scripture?

Just wondering about "grievous error."

 

[reddogs]

I guess when Jesus said "I will never leave you or forsake you" He was lying. I guess when Jesus said "Lo, I will be with you always, even unto the end of time" He was lying. I guess when the Word says 'He ever lives to make intercession for us" It is lying.

I cannot believe there are still Adventists that believe this 'tough luck-no intercessor-you're on your own-you better be perfect' nonsense. It's an EGW premise through and through, but nowhere to be found in Scripture.

It is preposterous to think this number is literal. How arrogant, elitist and narrow-minded to believe that God is not able to seal more than a literal 144,000.

As for 'nominal' Christianity, most Baptists I know have a better understanding of salavation than many Adventists.

How sad that there are still so many SDA's who think they have to spend thier lives trying to 'achieve' what has already been purchased on thier behalf and have no assurance of salvation whatsoever.

What a defeatist, discouraging, crippling, spiritually bankrupt way to live out your Christian experience.

Night, its right in front of you, the part "even unto the end of time", well when the end comes there will be a period of non-intercession as Christ prepares and comes in the clouds of angels in the 2nd coming.........

 

[sentipente]

Night, its right in front of you, the part "even unto the end of time", well when the end comes there will be a period of non-intercession as Christ prepares and comes in the clouds of angels in the 2nd coming.........

The end of time is not the ending of time. Even if you are correct do you mean that Christ is unable to multitask? What does He have to prepare that would prevent Him from being with His people? Either He is powerful or He is notl

 

[JonMiller]

JM, what do you mean by "in Scripture?" Do you think that only the Bible is Scripture? Why do we need Scripture? If Scripture is that important why did Adam have no Scripture?

Just wondering about "grievous error."

Has it been so long since you read the Bible? Adam physically talked with God, and could go by the memory of that later on. "Grevious error" is something that is explicitly against what the Bible says (to be compared with a different interpretation that I disagree with for so and so reasons, or in disagreement with a conclusion I draw for so and so reasons).

JM

 

[JonMiller]

The end of time is not the ending of time. Even if you are correct do you mean that Christ is unable to multitask? What does He have to prepare that would prevent Him from being with His people? Either He is powerful or He is notl

This is part of my problem with the traditional view of the Investigative Judgement.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Come on, JM. I'm surprised you tried to make hay of that reference to Adam. What of all the patriarchs who did not have Scripture. Do you think that the Bible is the fulness of Scripture? Why do we need Scripture? How does the Bible become the standard for truth when it contains so many inconsistencies?

 

[reddogs]

The end of time is not the ending of time. Even if you are correct do you mean that Christ is unable to multitask? What does He have to prepare that would prevent Him from being with His people? Either He is powerful or He is notl

You have got to start taking your meds.... "end of time is not the ending of time"?, thats what END means as like THE END..........

 

[sentipente]

No, reddogs. End means there is nothing afterwards so there can be no time left after the end for your scenario to play out.

 

[PostTribber]

"is it possible that the 144,000 is a literal number of converted Jews that are a great witness to the world and the multitudes that will follow?"

...uh, no! they are 144,000 jews - 12,000 from each tribe as listed in Revelation, which are the 'remnant' that God promised to preserve unto Himself. they will not be 'evangelists' as Hal Lindsay thinks. but will be the fufillment of the covenant that God made with Abraham, and will flourish during the reign of Messiah here on Earth in Jerusalem. at which time, "In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

 

[reddogs]

No, reddogs. End means there is nothing afterwards so there can be no time left after the end for your scenario to play out.

Do you actually read what you write?

 

[Jon0388g]

Why do we need Scripture? How does the Bible become the standard for truth when it contains so many inconsistencies?

Jon

 

[JonMiller]

Come on, JM. I'm surprised you tried to make hay of that reference to Adam. What of all the patriarchs who did not have Scripture. Do you think that the Bible is the fulness of Scripture? Why do we need Scripture? How does the Bible become the standard for truth when it contains so many inconsistencies?

Christ held up scripture to us.

Without the Bible, which I admit I take somewhat on faith, I would be a deist, not a Christian.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Do you actually read what you write?

Go ahead and prove that there will be any time left after the END of time. I wait patiently.

 

[reddogs]

Now I see why Ellen White said to let this sleeping dog lie....

Christ says that there will be those in the church who will present fables and suppositions, when God has given grand, elevating, ennobling truths which should ever be kept in the treasure house of the mind. When men pick up this theory and that theory, when they are curious to know something it is not necessary for them to know, God is not leading them. It is not His plan that His people shall present something which they have to suppose, which is not taught in the Word. It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as, Who is to compose the hundred and forty-four thousand? This those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question. {1SM 174.3}

 

[sentipente]

Christ held up scripture to us.

Without the Bible, which I admit I take somewhat on faith, I would be a deist, not a Christian.

JM

Christ help up to the Jews what they held to be important. He had this way of using with people what they were comfortable with. I am sure you recall how He used the story of the rich man and Lazarus to illustrate a point even though the story was not necessary and He knew that what it taught about death was untrue.

And how do you know which is better than the other between deism and Christianity?

 

[Jon0388g]

This is part of my problem with the traditional view of the Investigative Judgement.

JM

Didn't you know that Christ is still interceeding, whilst also carrying out the IJ? On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest carried the censer for prayer into the MHP, symbolising the intercessory role still continues.

When Christ stands up, and declares "Let him who is righteous be righteous still" - when judgment of the saints is complete - He is seen to take off His priestly robes, and put on a robe dipped in blood, ready to rescue His faithful from the earth. Intercession is no longer necessary, the righteous are sealed.

What's so hard to see in that?


Jon

 

[reddogs]

Go ahead and prove that there will be any time left after the END of time. I wait patiently.

Prove that God exists and is omnipotent....I will wait patiently......