The 144,000... who are they and why only 144,000?

[JonMiller]

I like the story of Christ, I want to beleive it basically. It is incomplete without His setting, which was based on jewish scripture.

Also, with poor memories, and obviously God isn't physically talking to all of us (or even most of us), is there any better way to communicate with us but through written word?

In fact, the main way that I communicate with my fellow scientists is with written word. That has been the best way to communicate for a long long time.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Prove that God exists and is omnipotent....I will wait patiently......

Typical of someone who has nothing more to offer.

 

[reddogs]

Typical of someone who has nothing more to offer.

Ditto.......

 

[sentipente]

Also, with poor memories, and obviously God isn't physically talking to all of us (or even most of us), is there any better way to communicate with us but through written word?

JM

Even the Bible declares that the way the Creator reveals the hidden things related to Him is through nature -- the things that He made.

 

[JonMiller]

Didn't you know that Christ is still interceeding, whilst also carrying out the IJ? On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest carried the censer for prayer into the MHP, symbolising the intercessory role still continues.

When Christ stands up, and declares "Let him who is righteous be righteous still" - when judgment of the saints is complete - He is seen to take off His priestly robes, and put on a robe dipped in blood, ready to rescue His faithful from the earth. Intercession is no longer necessary, the righteous are sealed.

What's so hard to see in that?


Jon

Why does an omnipotent God have any need of the IJ at all? Obviously it doesn't have anything to do with our salvation. Especially because nowhere in the Bible does it say it has anything to do with our salvation.

It might very well be for the other worlds... in which case it doesn't matter to us really.

The description of it that some adventists give is just lunancy, and has direct verses against it in the Bible.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Even the Bible declares that the way the Creator reveals the hidden things related to Him is through nature -- the things that He made.

I have studied the physical universe for all of my adult life (and have been fascinated with it since before I can remember, it has always been my intention to be a scientist), which is admittedly not all that long, and I see no scientific evidence for God.

I do see nonscientific evidence for God, and it does tell me somethings of God, but it doesn't even tell me that He is a personal God.

JM

 

[sentipente]

It might very well be for the other worlds... in which case it doesn't matter to us really.

Why would it be of any use to the other worlds? Are their lives now on hold until this IJ is finished? Are they under a temporary contract? If they can now serve Him without this informatioin why would they need it at some undisclosed time in the future?

 

[JonMiller]

Why would it be of any use to the other worlds? Are their lives now on hold until this IJ is finished? Are they under a temporary contract? If they can now serve Him without this informatioin why would they need it at some undisclosed time in the future?

I beleive that the other worlds explanation is that IJ is so that they (the other worlds) can see that God is just. This is theodicy, coudl be the case, but isn't important to me and I wouldn't spend time on it personally.

It definitely isnt' needed for us. We aren't seeing anything. It is definitely not needed for God, He is God. These last two are the reasons I dont' think it is important, and am saddened by the Adventsists who waste their time with it.

JM

 

[sentipente]

I have studied the physical universe for all of my adult life (and have been fascinated with it since before I can remember, it has always been my intention to be a scientist), which is admittedly not all that long, and I see no scientific evidence for God.

I do see nonscientific evidence for God, and it does tell me somethings of God, but it doesn't even tell me that He is a personal God.

JM

By "God" I suppose you mean Creator. Who says you need to find scientific evidence for God? Who says He has to be a personal God, however you define that term?

We are back to the maxim, ex nihilo nihil. Nothing comes from nothing. The existence matter points to the existence of a creator who created it. How can you say you have no scientific evidence of the existence of a Creator?

 

[sentipente]

I beleive that the other worlds explanation is that IJ is so that they (the other worlds) can see that God is just.

Why would creatures who have pledged allegiance to the Creator need to see He is just? They already accept that He is just. If they don't trust Him now they are not serving Him.

 

[JonMiller]

I already answered you this...

JM

 

[OntheDL]

Why does an omnipotent God have any need of the IJ at all? Obviously it doesn't have anything to do with our salvation. Especially because nowhere in the Bible does it say it has anything to do with our salvation.

It might very well be for the other worlds... in which case it doesn't matter to us really.

You are on the right track. Of course God doesn't need judgment or examining the book of works to know if anyone is saved. It's for God Himself. He needs to prove to all the inquiring minds that He's fair and fit to rule. This is the exact point Satan is contending. If not God can just snap a finger, Satan would have been gone.

 

[JonMiller]

Why would creatures who have pledged allegiance to the Creator need to see He is just? They already accept that He is just. If they don't trust Him now they are not serving Him.

They have faith that He will be vindicated?

I lend my freind 1000$, with the expectation that he will pay me back. While we continue to be freinds, I continue to lend him even more money, etc, I do at some point in time expect to have my trust in him realised.

Not saying that this is the case. Just saying that this was my understanding from Adventism, and seems like something that mgiht be in a reasonable direction. I personally don't see how it is very important to me.

JM

 

[stone]

closeing at op request