Four Angels Standing
2Peter 1:21 Cry Out For Wisdom Grace Heals
- Apr 18, 2016
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Just FYI for you and all who like to read to follow conversations:In post #531 I rested my case. It meant that I answered your question and had nothing more to add.
I did not say, it was Moses law.
I answered your question by posting scriptures and I explained what I understood from the texts. Your accusations are false and you did not repost or capture what you claim I said.
It is interesting how I found this thread right after I wrote an article on the same issue. See attached.It never ceases to amaze me how people don't read the bible. If one doesn't understand that the 10 commandments are done away they can not understand what Christ came to do.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The term "Christ" represents "the King of the Jews":
"Where is he that is born "King of the Jews"? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where "Christ" should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come "a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel".
Notice how Herod uses the term Christ synonymously with the term King of the Jews and how the chief priest and scribes respond to Herod's question of where the Christ is to be born (In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come "a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel"). It is clear that the term "Christ" was used to reference the anointed Heir to David's throne, the Messiah: the rightful heir to Rule God's people. If you are going to have a proper relationship with Jesus, you must relate to him as your Ruler: in obedience.
The 10 Commandments are absolutely done away as Jesus' Rule replaced the 10 Commandments.
The law is not a reference to the Torah, almost always the law is a reference to mankind's obligation to live right before God on any moral plain of existence. I know many of you that believe the Torah is still relevant are screaming inside yourself but let me ask you this question: why don't you stone adulterers to death as Moses commanded in the Torah?
For those of you that believe Paul's writings are inspired of God, why don't you believe Paul:
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones (what was written and engraved in stones? THE 10 COMMANDMENTS), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory (This is a reference to the 10 Commandments being the ministration of condemnation), much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious (Paul clearly is saying the 10 commandments are DONE AWAY), much more that which remaineth is glorious.
This isn't the only place Paul addresses this
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Paul says the first Covenant leads to bondage)
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman (The Law) and her son (And those who follow it): for the son of the bondwoman (those who follow the law) shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (those who follow Christ).
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman (those who follow the law), but of the free.
Matthew 5:17 is very poorly written in English. Jesus was saying that he came to raise the standards of the law, not to lower them, but he didn't preach the Torah. If you think salvation is in the 10 commandments you have totally missed Jesus message: Jesus raised the standards of the law and replaced its teachings with a higher set of rules.
Interesting, here I thought Jesus came to save mankind. If it were to to give proper understanding of what the law was to teach Jesus failed in His mission. If He came to give proper understanding pf the old why did He instead usher in the new and better covenant and include all mankind?
It seems like all the scripture written by Paul and John about the Christians duty is for naught in the minds of those who believe they are under parts old covenant law. They will not believe Paul's writings concerning the temporary status of the 10 commandment nor the simple texts written by John on the duty of Christians.
No, Jesus purpose was not to teach the proper understanding of the old covenant. His blood ushered in the new covenant of grace and love. His command is for us to love out fellow man as He loves us.
Thanks for your consideration.
I believe if you would stop reading scripture with your SDA sunglasses you would see the real light.Well, He must have given proper understanding if some of us can understand.
Have I ever indicated that it did negate any of His teachings. One thing Jesus never di was to teach gentiles how to observe any day.Jesus indeed came to save mankind and He accomplished that on the cross and through the resurrection. This does not negate all the other teachings Jesus gave to us... fail on the strawman I'm afraid.
Sounds nice, but somehow I can't wrap my brain around it.Actually, from our perspective, the scriptures by both Joihn and Paul are valuable instruction for understanding the proper way of obeying God... not for favour as the Jews did but for obedience through submission, for His good pleasure.
Is that a paraphrase from the prophet? I don't remember reading those things from scripture. Instead of what you were taught (I was taught the same thing) it would be good to read what the Bible really tells us on the subject. http://bibleresources.org/satan/You see, Satan didn't like God's rules either and convinced 1/3 on the angels that the rules were not able to be kept willingly and obediently. We are to prove, that even with his (satans) best attempts to dissuade us, that through Christ's righteousness, we willingly and obediently can.
Easy, Matt 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. The purpose of the old covenant was achieved when Jesus uttered "It is finished". If you don't believe the old covenant, ratified by the blood of an animal, is finished then according to verse 18 you are under obligation to observe all the law, you cannot pick and choose. Please do not glaze over this fact. Tell me why you think you are exempt from this rule. SDAs leave out most of the rules of the covenant, with its Sabbath requirements, that came to an end at the cross.I'm glad you brought this subject up about His blood and the covenant. I asked this in another thread I believe but no one responded... maybe you will.
Any covenant made between God and us is sealed by a blood sacrifice, I think we can agree on that. That means that every particular of that covenant has to be declared before the covenant is sealed. Example, the Sinai covenant was agreed upon and sealed with a blood offering. Please show us where Jesus rescinded the still valid covenant before His death, sealing the new covenant?
Do you really expect me to believe that? I read much more that Jesus spoke.All that Christ spoke about prior to the new covenant being enacted was how the Law was to be better understood and applied.
You have to be kidding. Sounds so much like ellen blabber.This is what Paul is making a differentiation between. The old understanding vs the new that Jesus gave to us. The amount of mention of the Sabbath after the new covenant was sealed leaves no doubt that it was not done away with but magnified and understood the way He hoped the Sinai would.
The first 3 relate to how we treat God, one relates to remembrance and 5 relate to our fellow man.The 2 great commandments are a summation of the better understood 10. The first four relate to God and the last 6 relate to our neighbour.
Do you see a 10 in front of commandments? 1Jn 3:Amen!! Also to love God... and what does the bible say, if you love me, keep my commandments.
ABSOLUTELY NO! The ten ar not about love, if they were about love then God, in the book of the law, would not have given the command to love found in Deut and Lev.You see, the ten, better understood, could be boiled down to the essence of the two, which is love. God is Love and everything He has ever done OT or NT has been with that never changing character of love... as I said previous, the failure of the old covenant was with the Jews' understanding of what is signified and through idolatry, apostasy and traditions, made it unrecognizable to what God intended.
It is interesting how I found this thread right after I wrote an article on the same issue. See attached.
TD
Tis a might interestin'.If you check the statistics of those who claim to keep the law, you'd find the ratio for divorcé, murder, stealing, adultery consistent with those they condemn.
I just don't understand why some here think they're having private conversations for all to hear in public.I do believe you're speaking to someone else. You're not taking into context all that I've posted here.
So what constitutes hate?That's a lie.
The commands against adultery and murder are all about love. If the husband loves his wife, the wife loves her husband, they DO NOT commit adultery. Loving one's neighbor as one's self precludes the desire to MURDER!
Please let all the Saints of God read that bolded admission by Sophrosyne carefully. I bolded it just so it could not be missed.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
Remember sisters and brothers also, Matthew 7:22
When they have Quote turned off in Reply, or add post at the bottom box, you don't get to see what they are replying to, I think that's the point of confusion.I just don't understand why some here think they're having private conversations for all to hear in public.
bugkiller
Looking forward to your proving that claim as you post those statistics.If you check the statistics of those who claim to keep the law, you'd find the ratio for divorcé, murder, stealing, adultery consistent with those they condemn.
If what you say is true Heb 7:12 is a lie right along with more form Hebrews and the Gospels.Isn't that an amazing claim? The ten commandments don't apply anymore.
That's why Jesus wasted his time and had no idea what he was talking about when he recalled them during his ministry. And said that until the heaven and earth pass away his words and those laws will not pass away.
YepIs there agreement that any Biblical covenant is sealed through a blood sacrifice?
Excellent!Interesting, here I thought Jesus came to save mankind. If it were to to give proper understanding of what the law was to teach Jesus failed in His mission. If He came to give proper understanding pf the old why did He instead usher in the new and better covenant and include all mankind?
It seems like all the scripture written by Paul and John about the Christians duty is for naught in the minds of those who believe they are under parts old covenant law. They will not believe Paul's writings concerning the temporary status of the 10 commandment nor the simple texts written by John on the duty of Christians.
No, Jesus purpose was not to teach the proper understanding of the old covenant. His blood ushered in the new covenant of grace and love. His command is for us to love out fellow man as He loves us.
Thanks for your consideration.
Nope!My dear what you repeatedly demonstrate is your lack of understanding about the law itself.
The law wasn't the law of Moses!
It was the laws of GOD!
Sin began with Adam and Eve! The obedience required to stay pure and free from sin originated with GOD and his first commandment in the garden to them.
How do you defend the scriptural ten commandments that begin with, thou shalt not.... And ignore the fact that in Genesis God told Adam and Eve, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
The knowledge of good and evil. That fruit is what brought Adam and Eve's consciousness out of that which was one with God and into the world that God created.
Me neither!So you think that the Jews were dumber than us Christians when it came to the Law and somehow you can keep them better than they did? Good luck on that note, I'm not going to even try to enroll in a school that all the students of it ..... failed.
You know they need confusion.This is the problem... way too ambiguous IMO when the Law means whatever you wish it to mean instead of anything specific then the word basically means NOTHING in a debate because it is like nailing jello to a moving race car at the Indy 500. When people say the Law means not the Law of Moses and then later says the Law means the Law of Moses (10 commandments) and then says "God's Law" doesn't mean the Law of Moses and then says later "God's Law" means the 10 commandments (Law of Moses) then they are contradicting themselves on the meaning of what they are portraying.
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