Thanksgiving and its Calvinist/Arminian Roots

[Dave L]

Robinson, John (c. 1575–1625), pastor to the *Pilgrim Fathers. Very little is known about his early life. He was a native of Lincs or Notts, probably studied at Cambridge, was ordained in the C of E, and seems to have held a curacy at *Norwich. He later became a *Puritan, joining the ‘gathered Church’ at Scrooby Manor, Notts. In 1608, owing to severe measures against Nonconformity, Robinson and his congregation were forced to flee to the *Netherlands. In 1609 he settled at *Leiden, of which university he became a member in 1615. From 1617 he interested himself in the project of his Leiden community to emigrate to America, as their strict *Calvinism had brought them into conflict with the *Arminianism of which Leiden was a centre. Though he was prevented from joining the Pilgrim Fathers in the Mayflower, he assisted them in their preparations and encouraged them by his letters. He was an able controversialist: in 1610 he published Justification of Separation from the Church, and in his Apologia (1619) he defended the principles of Congregationalism. He also wrote A Defence of the Doctrine Propounded by the Synod at Dort (1624). His Observations Divine and Moral, a collection of 62 essays on spiritual and moral subjects, was published posthumously (1625).


Cross, F. L., & Livingstone, E. A. (Eds.). (2005). In The Oxford dictionary of the Christian Church (3rd ed. rev., pp. 1412–1413). Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press.

 

[Dave L]

The religion of the Pilgrims had grown out of the Puritan movement in England. With the English translations of the Bible at their disposal, they had decided to return their form of worship to a New Testament form, rejecting all of the formal rituals of the Catholic Church and the Church of England.

During the later years in Leiden, their beliefs met some opposition and even heated debates at the University of Leiden from other groups such as the one led by the Arminians. By the last year there, the Pilgrims found themselves ridiculed and sometimes physically assaulted by opponents.

In fact, James Chilton was stoned by a group of youths and nearly lost his life. The Pilgrim fathers "...therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and less danger, if any such could be found."

In the end, they concluded it was time to live as a distinct body by themselves under the Government of Virginia. Pastor John Robinson and the elders began to seek a refuge for the entire congregation.

The Pilgrims and Plymouth Colony:1620

 

[Ricky M]

Not sure of the point - if I eat Turkey today I'm not saved?

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Dave L]

Not sure of the point - if I eat Turkey today I'm not saved?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Some eat turkey others eat crow.

 

[Jonaitis]

The pilgrims brought the Geneva Bible with them to the New World, which also was a translation by Calvinists (as well as the KJV).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They all could still be forgiven, God Willing.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It makes me thankful that I am not descended from Puritan stock; that Canada has retained the timing of the "Harvest Festival" and that our Traditional Churches still observe it as a religious celebration rather than a celebration glorifying romanticized rebellion, defiance, gluttony, consumerism, and secular sports.

 

[Redwingfan9]

The religion of the Pilgrims had grown out of the Puritan movement in England. With the English translations of the Bible at their disposal, they had decided to return their form of worship to a New Testament form, rejecting all of the formal rituals of the Catholic Church and the Church of England.

During the later years in Leiden, their beliefs met some opposition and even heated debates at the University of Leiden from other groups such as the one led by the Arminians. By the last year there, the Pilgrims found themselves ridiculed and sometimes physically assaulted by opponents.

In fact, James Chilton was stoned by a group of youths and nearly lost his life. The Pilgrim fathers "...therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and less danger, if any such could be found."

In the end, they concluded it was time to live as a distinct body by themselves under the Government of Virginia. Pastor John Robinson and the elders began to seek a refuge for the entire congregation.

The Pilgrims and Plymouth Colony:1620

As I understand it, the Pilgrims were acapella psalm singers who rejected high church worship and holy days.

 

[Dave L]

As I understand it, the Pilgrims were acapella psalm singers who rejected high church worship and holy days.

That's not the only reason if that is true.

 

[Redwingfan9]

That's not the only reason if that is true.

They moved to the Netherlands, in part because the Dutch churches at the time bad banished holy days and sang acapella psalms. The Dutch church at the time the Pilgrims were there was undergoing some significant issues, particularly with the arminians. It lead to the Synod of Dort, which declared the Dutch church reformed and paved the way for the 5 points that are now called Calvinism.

The Pilgrims got mixed up in all of this and obviously were targeted by arminians for their strict adherence to what we would now call reformed theology. As it turns out, the Purtains won the day in the Netherlands. By the mid 1620's the arminians had been eradicated from the Dutch church, which was strongly reformed and basically a puritan church. By then though the Pilgrims had already settled in Massachusetts and were growing there.

 

[Resha Caner]

The religion of the Pilgrims had grown out of the Puritan movement in England. With the English translations of the Bible at their disposal, they had decided to return their form of worship to a New Testament form, rejecting all of the formal rituals of the Catholic Church and the Church of England.

During the later years in Leiden, their beliefs met some opposition and even heated debates at the University of Leiden from other groups such as the one led by the Arminians. By the last year there, the Pilgrims found themselves ridiculed and sometimes physically assaulted by opponents.

In fact, James Chilton was stoned by a group of youths and nearly lost his life. The Pilgrim fathers "...therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and less danger, if any such could be found."

In the end, they concluded it was time to live as a distinct body by themselves under the Government of Virginia. Pastor John Robinson and the elders began to seek a refuge for the entire congregation.

The Pilgrims and Plymouth Colony:1620

Thanksgiving as proclaimed by Lincoln (which is the progenitor of our current celebration) had little to do with Reformed theology. Lincoln himself was probably more a deist who used whatever religious language was politically expedient. His purposes in proclaiming Thanksgiving were political, not religious. He faced the monumental task of healing a very broken nation, and needed some pastoral myth to hang it on. The Pilgrims make for nice paintings and touching fireside stories.

Thanksgiving had little to nothing to do with the Pilgrims prior to Lincoln as well. It was a largely local celebration of local customs.

So is this another, "Your holiday ain't what you think it is" thread?

 

[Dave L]

Thanksgiving as proclaimed by Lincoln had little to do with Reformed theology. Lincoln himself was probably more a deist who used whatever religious language was politically expedient. His purposes in proclaiming Thanksgiving were political, not religious. He faced the monumental task of healing a very broken nation, and needed some pastoral myth to hang it on. The Pilgrims make for nice paintings and touching fireside stories.

Thanksgiving had little to nothing to do with the Pilgrims prior to Lincoln as well. It was a largely local celebration of local customs.

America, not thanksgiving came about based on the Pilgrims trying to get away from the Arminians.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Thanksgiving as proclaimed by Lincoln (which is the progenitor of our current celebration) had little to do with Reformed theology. Lincoln himself was probably more a deist who used whatever religious language was politically expedient. His purposes in proclaiming Thanksgiving were political, not religious. He faced the monumental task of healing a very broken nation, and needed some pastoral myth to hang it on. The Pilgrims make for nice paintings and touching fireside stories.

Thanksgiving had little to nothing to do with the Pilgrims prior to Lincoln as well. It was a largely local celebration of local customs.

So is this another, "Your holiday ain't what you think it is" thread?

Thanksgiving as a politically created event originates with Washington. The states also had days of Thanksgiving, in fact a formal date for Thanksgiving wasn't created until world war two. FDR had tried to change the date leading to competing Republican and Democratic thanksgivings a week apart. People think we're divided now have no concept of history.

In any event, the original founders of America were all reformed. The Pilgrims and Puritans were acapella psalm singers, reformed to the core. Xmas was outlawed in much of New England for a century and a half.

 

[Resha Caner]

America, not thanksgiving came about based on the Pilgrims trying to get away from the Arminians.

Not even close. The Pilgrims were symbolic of a significant movement that impacted the U.S., but they themselves had little lasting effect. But if you'd like to cite me your source I'd be interested.

 

[Resha Caner]

Thanksgiving as a politically created event originates with Washington.

He was the first to make a national proclamation in the U.S., which isn't too surprising given he was the first President. But he didn't originate the idea of Thanksgiving or national proclamations. Nor does our current Thanksgiving stem from Washington in any meaningful way.

Washington is in my top 10, but this isn't why.

In any event, the original founders of America were all reformed. The Pilgrims and Puritans were acapella psalm singers, reformed to the core. Xmas was outlawed in much of New England for a century and a half.

Not all were Reformed, but the Puritan mythos did have a huge impact on the U.S. No doubt.

 

[Dave L]

Not even close. The Pilgrims were symbolic of a significant movement that impacted the U.S., but they themselves had little lasting effect. But if you'd like to cite me your source I'd be interested.

But they were on the front lines....

 

[Resha Caner]

But they were on the front lines....

I don't understand why you think this answers my post.

 

[Dave L]

I don't understand why you think this answers my post.

You need reliable references for your claims.

 

[Resha Caner]

You need reliable references for your claims.

And I asked the same of you.

If you're referring to my comments on Thanksgiving, you can refer to:
Thanksgiving: An American Holiday
Edwin T. Greninger
Social Science Vol. 54, No. 1 (WINTER 1979), pp. 3-15

In this article, Greninger notes that though the Pilgrims did celebrate as tradition recalls it, they did not call their celebration "Thanksgiving", and it was a one time event, not an annual one. It was actually in Virginia that the first known celebration called "Thanksgiving" occurred ... but that wouldn't have been politically expedient for Lincoln to mention at the time.

I could also give you sources for our culinary traditions (turkey, cranberries, etc.).

Or are you referring to the limited impact of the Pilgrims? Plymouth Colony existed from 1620 to 1691 when it was absorbed by the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which dwarfed it in size, population, wealth ... well, about everything. You can start with the Wikipedia entry here, and we can discuss more if you want. Even there they refer to it as having a "relatively short existence".

You turn.

 

[Dave L]

And I asked the same of you.

If you're referring to my comments on Thanksgiving, you can refer to:
Thanksgiving: An American Holiday
Edwin T. Greninger
Social Science Vol. 54, No. 1 (WINTER 1979), pp. 3-15

In this article, Greninger notes that though the Pilgrims did celebrate as tradition recalls it, but they did not call their celebration "Thanksgiving", and it was a one time event, not an annual one. It was actually in Virginia that the first know celebration called "Thanksgiving" occurred.

I could also give you sources for our culinary traditions (turkey, cranberries, etc.).

Or are you referring to the limited impact of the Pilgrims? Plymouth Colony existed from 1620 to 1691 when it was absorbed by the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which dwarfed it in size, population, wealth ... well, about everything. You can start with the Wikipedia entry here, and we can discuss more if you want. Even there they refer to it as having a "relatively short existence".

You turn.

I'm not concerned with Thanksgiving. Just the reasons behind the Pilgrims trying to get away from the Arminians.