Texas man details wife's devastating miscarriage amid state's strict abortion laws

[Foamhead]

Why would it take several days? Several hours is more like it. Also consider that this fetus was already dead.

It was made political by legislatures interfering in medical issues and I agree - that was needless.

Baloney. That is a false claim.

No, we should listen to the doctors, not the politicians and hospital lawyers.

D&C is, or used to be, routine.

Just amazed that I have to explain that putting a woman unnecessarily at grave risk because doctors are afraid of politicians' horror of abortion - even though the fetus is already dead and decaying - is misogynistic because it puts an abstract idea over real women's lives. The dead fetus is valued over the living woman.

Why are you and others here so addicted to arguing with someone allergic to facts? You're not going to change anything.

 

[Pommer]

Why are you and others here so addicted to arguing with someone allergic to facts? You're not going to change anything.

My “audience” is only very rarely the people with whom I am arguing.

My aim is for the folks who read these forums daily but never post a word (in the Heathen areas, where I frequent).
Whether they find me silly or wise or “entertaining”, they haven’t said, (as above), but they’re wise and they think and can reason…I enjoy giving them something to think about (if I don’t do it, who will they listen to)?

 

[DaisyDay]

Why are you and others here so addicted to arguing with someone allergic to facts? You're not going to change anything.

A great part of the reason is because I don't understand that way of thinking.

 

[frienden thalord]

The only thing being murdered is the English language.

I do not seem to remember The LORD saying thou shalt not butcher the english language
but i do seem to remember thou shalt not murder being said .
Its one thing to butcher a language , quite another to butcher the child that sleeps within the womb .
Just a real simple reminder my friend .
When we all stand before the LORD , and everyone will , whether as a sheep or as a goat
well done thou whose english was perfect is not going be said .
But we are warned as to who will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven .
Those who faith was not in Christ
and yet if we lipped His name and yet our heart was far from him , then our faith was never truly in Him .
Just keep that in mind .

 

[frienden thalord]

Thank goodness that we have good politicians to thwart the schemes of the people who have dedicated their lives to providing healthcare for the people in our nation and the several states!

only the health and care of the unborn dont seem to be covered with these fellows .
Health care . They may as well say it for what it truly is my friend .
In the vast vast majority of cases wherein the child was terminated
it was not due to the danger of the life of the woman or the child
it was done because folks did not want a child .
Its a matter of their own dreams and cares in life being put before the life of another .
This too is why many love to cling to ideas about how it just cant be life
cant be human and etc . IT covers up the real truth that many do not want to beleive .
The truth that a life is being ended , terminated .
Its kind of like how they replace adultery with the word affair or etc .
Folks dont like to believe something is what it is and thus need a way of
convincing themselves that what they do is not wrong .
But as much as we can fool ourselves , we cant fool God . He knows
Remember GOD sees all and knows all things
and nothing done even in the darkness of night is hidden from HIS site .
Lets keep that in mind shall we .

 

[Foamhead]

A great part of the reason is because I don't understand that way of thinking.

Would you argue with a member of the Taliban or Isis? Make no mistake, these people have no respect for human rights and have every intention of forcing their religion on the nation. You can't reason with an unreasonable person and you aren't going to understand a thought process that doesn't come from a foundation of logic or evidence.

The reason these people attack abortion, LGBT, "liberals" and minorities is because they are trying to win some ridiculous culture war which they have no hope of succeeding. Evangelical Christians are coming from a point of blind rage because they know their days are numbered and every day their influence and number dwindle. It's the reason they support fascists like Trump and have no regard for the constitution or rule of law... because they just NEED to win this war against the amorphous threats around them. They need to "own the libs", they need to restore their view of the "proper" social hierarchy, the want to force society back to the fictional place they think it used to be.

In terms of abortion, they don't like women having sex and want to make sure they are punished as much as possible. Where is people's confusion? You can post all the stories you like of women dying (or almost), becoming infertile or any other tragedy like the 10 year old rape victim. They simply don't care and there isn't some grander issue at work here, there are no layers here that need to be peeled away. They aren't merely misinformed and going to change their outlook when you provide the correct information.

There are studies showing that the more you argue with these people, the more they dig in and seeing correct information has no effect on them. It's called the backfire effect: Belief perseverance - Wikipedia

They NEED to believe in a certain reality and will not abandon any belief regardless of what anyone says or does. There are also studies where they take these people with extremely "conservative" authoritarian beliefs and force them to face evidence that contradicts their worldview. With no escape or ability to lie/shout down the information they literally go into a rage, almost like an autistic meltdown, and then shut down neurologically. The researchers said it's similar to brain death.

The solution is to start voting. Part of me doesn't feel sorry for Americans because these people have been attacking your rights and chipping away for years and years. But younger people just don't vote, especially in primaries and don't organize to get rid of the politicians who are sitting on their rear ends as they allow these zealots continue their Sherman's march over the rest of you. The sad thing is they aren't at all the majority... they're just the majority who usually votes. You get the government you deserve and if the rest of you continue to whine and stay home on election day because you don't like every single thing your candidate supports, then the more extreme or incompetent guy gets in and you get what you voted... or didn't... vote for. Hillary Clinton was far from ideal, but she wouldn't have stacked the court with anti-abortion fanatics like Trump did. All the Bernie people stayed home and look it got you.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Why would it take several days? Several hours is more like it. Also consider that this fetus was already dead.

As I said - most miscarriages pass naturally - and they can take cup to a couple days.

If all it took was a couple of hours with each miscarriage - then most would be removed by D&C - but they aren't/

It was made political by legislatures interfering in medical issues and I agree - that was needless.

Maybe you read a different article. This one did not claim that the decision was made by anyone but the doctors involved.

Baloney. That is a false claim.

You just made the claim that no one should interfere in medical issues (besides doctors).

And this is not false at all - for those who often speak out against transgenderism is the surgeries associate with it - we hear this a lot.

Go to the thread on here about the ban in Florida - you will see many making this point - the point you literally just made, and claim is false.

No, we should listen to the doctors, not the politicians and hospital lawyers.

What? You just said that this claim was false.

And the article clearly stated that since the child was dead - that the law does not apply to it.

Therefore - the decision to not D&C was one made by the doctors alone.

D&C is, or used to be, routine.

It is still common.

Just amazed that I have to explain that putting a woman unnecessarily at grave risk because doctors are afraid of politicians' horror of abortion - even though the fetus is already dead and decaying - is misogynistic because it puts an abstract idea over real women's lives. The dead fetus is valued over the living woman.

You must have read some fan-fiction about this case or something.

Where in the article does it claim that any of this happened?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Thank goodness that we have good politicians to thwart the schemes of the people who have dedicated their lives to providing healthcare for the people in our nation and the several states!

Abortion and "sex-reassignment" surgeries are not healthcare - but murder, population control and experimentation.

 

[DaisyDay]

Abortion and "sex-reassignment" surgeries are not healthcare - but murder, population control and experimentation.

Why do you value the dead fetus over the living woman?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Why do you value the dead fetus over the living woman?

Again - you are using some script that I did not see in the article.

You are basing your entire argument on some imagined scenario.

Unless you can share exactly where the doctors claimed what motivated their decision - outside that they did not consider there to be a medical need at the time.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Sicker with sepsis?

Yes...are you unfamiliar with sepsis? Mayo Clinic:
Sepsis is a serious condition in which the body responds improperly to an infection. The infection-fighting processes turn on the body, causing the organs to work poorly.
Sepsis may progress to septic shock. This is a dramatic drop in blood pressure that can damage the lungs, kidneys, liver and other organs. When the damage is severe, it can lead to death.
Early treatment of sepsis improves chances for survival.

Yes, pregnant mothers can die from infection if a dead baby isn't removed promptly.

 

[ralliann]

Yes...are you unfamiliar with sepsis? Mayo Clinic:

There was no sepsis.

Sepsis is a serious condition in which the body responds improperly to an infection. The infection-fighting processes turn on the body, causing the organs to work poorly.
Sepsis may progress to septic shock. This is a dramatic drop in blood pressure that can damage the lungs, kidneys, liver and other organs. When the damage is severe, it can lead to death.
Early treatment of sepsis improves chances for survival.

Yes, pregnant mothers can die from infection if a dead baby isn't removed promptly.

But there was none.

 

[DaisyDay]

Again - you are using some script that I did not see in the article.

You are basing your entire argument on some imagined scenario.

Unless you can share exactly where the doctors claimed what motivated their decision - outside that they did not consider there to be a medical need at the time.

That is not a script but my question to you: why are you valuing a dead fetus over a living woman?

 

[ralliann]

That is not a script but my question to you: why are you valuing a dead fetus over a living woman?

There is nothing in that article concerning this scenario of her medical treatment of these doctors...

 

[Foamhead]

That is not a script but my question to you: why are you valuing a dead fetus over a living woman?

Why are you still trying to reason with him?

 

[DaisyDay]

Why are you still trying to reason with him?

I dunno, habit maybe? Also I'm a bit slow in determining when someone is arguing in bad faith as I try to err on the charitable side.

 

[Foamhead]

I dunno, habit maybe? Also I'm a bit slow in determining when someone is arguing in bad faith as I try to err on the charitable side.

I always check people's posting history before giving them any serious attention, because you will quickly see if they are worth discussing anything with. Also, lot's of people think that if they don't get the last word in that they are somehow conceding the discussion. You aren't, you've just chosen to shake the dust off your shoes and move on.

 

[DaisyDay]

Again - you are using some script that I did not see in the article.

You are basing your entire argument on some imagined scenario.

Unless you can share exactly where the doctors claimed what motivated their decision - outside that they did not consider there to be a medical need at the time.

Again, this is not a script but my question to you.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Again, this is not a script but my question to you.

That is a question that makes no sense in light of what I know about this and other similar cases.

I believe you are trying to twist the facts of this story to fit a political narrative and I don't find that to be at all appropriate.

 

[Larniavc]

Texas radio host Ryan Hamilton's world was shattered last month when his wife told him she was suffering a miscarriage at nearly 13 weeks pregnant and the fetus no longer had a heartbeat.

But for Hamilton and his wife, the nightmare was just beginning.

Medical records reviewed by CBS News show Hamilton's wife, who asked not to be named, was treated at a Surepoint Emergency Center branch near their home in North Texas. There, doctors confirmed the fetus — their second child — had no heartbeat, according to the records. His wife was prescribed the drug misoprostol, which induces labor and is used for both miscarriages and abortions. Hamilton says doctors told them the medication may need to be repeated, so they were prescribed one refill.

When the second round failed, Hamilton called the Surepoint Emergency Center and explained that the medication wasn't working. His wife returned to the medical center, where Hamilton says a different doctor told her they couldn't give her another refill to continue the process.

"You start thinking about the women that have to drive across state lines. We've heard these stories. And you — just as a husband, you go, 'Is that what we're gonna have to do?'" Hamilton wondered.

[they obtain a third dose from a different hospital]

Shortly after returning home, Hamilton recalled playing with his 9-month-old daughter when he noticed a missed call from his wife. He found her unconscious in the bathroom surrounded by blood. He carried her to the car and rushed to the emergency room.

The doctors told the couple that the third round of misoprostol was successful. Eventually, she was stable and the pair was able to return home. But the painful process of losing their child is something that will stick with them forever.

"I want people to know that this really happens. My fear is that stories like ours will continue to get told and not believed," Hamilton said. "Everything in her life right now that she's having to do to get better is not just a reminder of the baby that we lost, it's a reminder of what they put her through, and she has to do it every day."

This is what happens when non-professionals make decisions. The medical professionals should do the medical professionalling.

The ideologues should butt out.