terrorist attack in Oregon!

[Belk]

The museum could possibly offer hours that aren't necessarily the same as the building hours. It's a federal building on a refuge. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if employees aren't there everyday.

Yes, I'm sure they just leave federal documents out where anyone can go through them.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-latest-armed-group-going-through-government-documents/

 

[DaisyDay]

The museum could possibly offer hours that aren't necessarily the same as the building hours. It's a federal building on a refuge. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if employees aren't there everyday.

It's the headquarters for the refuge. They sell tours, offer information to the tourists, fishermen, hunters, etc. They also have to police the place for poachers, swimmers, off the leash dogs, drunken teenagers, etc. I'm not sure how they could manage to run the place without actual employees on site when it's open, but perhaps you have some evidence that this is so?

 

[stamperben]

It's the headquarters for the refuge. They sell tours, offer information to the tourists, fishermen, hunters, etc. They also have to police the place for poachers, swimmers, off the leash dogs, drunken teenagers, etc. I'm not sure how they could manage to run the place without actual employees on site when it's open, but perhaps you have some evidence that this is so?

You are being too rational Daisy. Stop that, remember where you're posting.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It's the headquarters for the refuge. They sell tours, offer information to the tourists, fishermen, hunters, etc. They also have to police the place for poachers, swimmers, off the leash dogs, drunken teenagers, etc. I'm not sure how they could manage to run the place without actual employees on site when it's open, but perhaps you have some evidence that this is so?

There's a lot of places we have visited similar to this that had no employees during certain days or certain hours.

Again, let me remind you, I don't agree with their tactics. Don't take my playing devils advocate as support.

I support their cause, but not what they're doing.

 

[smaneck]

There's a lot of places we have visited similar to this that had no employees during certain days or certain hours.

No one says they are there all the time. The law says they have to be there regularly for guns to be prohibited. And it is clear they are there regularly.

Again, let me remind you, I don't agree with their tactics. Don't take my playing devils advocate as support.

I support their cause, but not what they're doing.

And why do you support their cause?

 

[Belk]

And why do you support their cause?

I support their stated cause as well. I think mandatory minimum sentences are a bad idea and they do not allow judges the proper discretion.

 

[smaneck]

I support their stated cause as well. I think mandatory minimum sentences are a bad idea and they do not allow judges the proper discretion.

That's only a part of their 'cause.' They want to give over federal lands to local governments. But I would agree with your opposition to minimum sentences. Judging from Obama's State of the Union address, so does he. But I don't have any sympathy for the Hammonds who have been violating federal laws for years, and who are vicious child abusers. That's why Dwight's own grandson was willing to testify against him. However, charging them under a terrorist law is rather silly.

 

[Belk]

That's only a part of their 'cause.' They want to give over federal lands to local governments. But I would agree with your opposition to minimum sentences. Judging from Obama's State of the Union address, so does he. But I don't have any sympathy for the Hammonds who have been violating federal laws for years, and who are vicious child abusers. That's why Dwight's own grandson was willing to testify against him. However, charging them under a terrorist law is rather silly.

I would agree. As I said, I only agree with part of their cause.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I support their stated cause as well. I think mandatory minimum sentences are a bad idea and they do not allow judges the proper discretion.

That's only a part of their 'cause.' They want to give over federal lands to local governments. But I would agree with your opposition to minimum sentences. Judging from Obama's State of the Union address, so does he. But I don't have any sympathy for the Hammonds who have been violating federal laws for years, and who are vicious child abusers. That's why Dwight's own grandson was willing to testify against him. However, charging them under a terrorist law is rather silly.

Above, Belk pretty much sums up my thoughts, but I'll add on to it. The Hammonds have gotten the shaft from the government over many years.

Violating federal laws for years? Citations, please (aside from the two questionable arson charges). Vicious child abusers? Citations please.

You realize that not everyone has wonderful relationships with their families, right? I don't put more weight on the willingness of the grandson to testify against him. I think there's a lot of money exchanging hands in this whole thing.

 

[smaneck]

Above, Belk pretty much sums up my thoughts, but I'll add on to it. The Hammonds have gotten the shaft from the government over many years.

I found the documentation of that earlier, will post it as soon as I locate it again.

Vicious child abusers? Citations please.

Now that I can fully document now.

http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/04135010/DH-testimony.pdf

You realize that not everyone has wonderful relationships with their families, right?

Yep, but not everyone tortures their grandchildren by sandpapering their skin. Not all uncles punch their nephews to the ground and then grind their face in gravel. Making a teenager walk ten miles, maybe not so harsh.

I don't put more weight on the willingness of the grandson to testify against him. I think there's a lot of money exchanging hands in this whole thing.

I don't suppose you have any evidence for this? Otherwise you're spreading a pretty vicious rumor about this kid. He finally got the guts to say what his family had done in 2001 and how he was nearly burned to death as a result. When the abuse he was suffering was reported back in 2004 rather than deny it his "Uncle Steven"told the police he'd like to make sure the boy wished he'd never been born for reporting it.

 

[smaneck]

Found the article regarding their previous clashes with federal authorities and the death threats made by the Hammonds. Note, the article is dated 1994:

http://www.hcn.org/issues/20/582

 

[DaisyDay]

Yeah, I think the death threats and doxxing lends credence to the threat of violence the armed zealots hold.