Terrorism

[Steezie]

You say your an IRA supporter, well I've had family slaughtered by the people you support

As have I. Much of my family stems from county Cork and I have had relatives on both sides of the Fenian fence.

Men and women have been savagely tortured by the people you support.

And they have been shot dead in the streets and thier homes by the British.

You also say that you support the removal of the British

I support the removal of the British government from Ireland. If people of British descent wish to stay, I have no objection to it however if they wish to be governed by the Queen let them go back to Britan.

Are you telling me, a British Ulster-Scot that I'm not welcome to live in N.ireland or the Republic?

You are welcome to live anywhere you please, as long as you respect the rights of soverinty of where you live.

believing propaganda that leads you to support murderers, robbers, torturers, global terrorists.

I dont support the British army or the British government.

Please, If your going to get into this debate at least consider the democratic wishes of the majority

So because the majority of a group wants to do the wrong thing, we should just do it because everyboddy wants to? There are towns in the South in the US where the majority of the people probably wouldnt mind having themselves a good-ol fashoned lynching. Should we let them do it because it's the democratic wishes of the majority?

I do not support the idea that people cannot live in other nations, such as the idea Steezie put forward.

I never said people of other nations cannot live in other nations. Perhaps I phrased it poorly, but as someone said before me, you cannot live in annother nation and expect your own nation to govern you and get angry when the people there expect to govern themselves

As a side note, personally I dont understand why Americans are against the IRA. America's action during the Revolutionary War mirror very closely the actions of the IRA.

A nation or society built through violence will govern by violence.

All nations are built through violence.

 

[Tyndale]

As have I. Much of my family stems from county Cork and I have had relatives on both sides of the Fenian fence.

And they have been shot dead in the streets and thier homes by the British.

I support the removal of the British government from Ireland. If people of British descent wish to stay, I have no objection to it however if they wish to be governed by the Queen let them go back to Britan.

Did you know that the British monarchy started in Tara? So you're throwing away your heritage by believing republican bigotry.

You are welcome to live anywhere you please, as long as you respect the rights of soverinty of where you live.

Thank you very much. When Ireland was divided an arrangement between the Irish and the British was made that N.Ireland should contain 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster. It was a mutual arrangement between both parties. Those in the south would submit and agree to the Irish government both Nationalist and Unionist and those in N.Ireland would submit and agree to the British Government both Nationalist and Unionist.

Peace!...............but hold on, Why did the IRA/sinn Fein rebel against their British government? The Hypocrisy stinks

I never said people of other nations cannot live in other nations. Perhaps I phrased it poorly, but as someone said before me, you cannot live in annother nation and expect your own nation to govern you and get angry when the people there expect to govern themselves

You fail to recognise that Ulster is not your nation. you continually think it's part of a unified Ireland. You seem to think because an Island is an Island that it has to be one. What do you say to the Scots who live North of mainland Britain? What do you say to the welsh who live West in Mainland Britain? what do you say to the English who live south in Mainland Britain?.............Do their own identities attribute to nothing more than the identity of the island?

 

[Pogue]

I do not support the IRA but I support the view that Ireland should govern its island, the scots should govern scotland, the weslh should governt wales, the cornish should govern cornwall and the english should govern england. I do not support the idea that people cannot live in other nations, such as the idea Steezie put forward.

I do not think that the ends justify the means, such as when steezie mentioned removing the british no matter what the cost.

A nation or society built through violence will govern by violence.

This is pretty much my view as well. I'm a pacifist, and as such would never support violence of any kind. I'd like to see British rule removed from Northern Ireland but violence is really not the way to go. The price is just too high.
Then again, terrorism is really hard to define. Nobody would call the French and Dutch resistence in WW2 terrorist acitons, and yet a few civilians were killed through their actions. It's a tricky question, and to be honest I'm not certain where I stand.

 

[Tyndale]

I'd like to see British rule removed from Northern Ireland but violence is really not the way to go.

you seem to forget that the people you class as rulers are British citizens. I'll say no more

 

[Rorshack]

When I was In Ireland, I spent three months there, it seemed to me that the differences between the culture of the North and the Republic were profound. But I did not see that the differences warrented killing each other. So one lives in a Socialist Republic and the other lives in a Socialist Constitutional Monarchy, big deal. Also as an American I also could not understand one group of white christians killing another group of white christians. But then I went to Paisley's church. They think the RCs are minions of the Devil.

The Quakers were working for peace. But they did not understand the Protestant Hostility to the RC Mass. The Freemasons were trying to do good works to help people, but the RCC was preaching that the Freemasons were the Devils minions.

Ulster has been different from the rest of the island for hundreds of years. It has a very different feel than that of the Republic. It seemed to me that Ulster was essentialy British.
Many of the Irish people I spoke with in the Republic did not approve of the Provos or the violence. "I'm for Peace" was a common window sticker.

Ireland would be much better off without any religion IMHO.

I sure liked the music and dancing and people.

But the Irish nuttyness about last names is stupid to an American. I got to simply saying I am American. So some stated calling me _________ American.

I noticed the reinactors did not take the division that seriously. Though some of the Irish Reinactors thought that the English guy who was playing King Billy was taking the part to far, playing the 52 Shades of Orange tape and all.

When some person tried to draw me into a political discussion, I would make my American accent obvious and say "I just came over here for the music."

Belfast is a nice city. I wish they would stop blowing it up.

 

[Pogue]

you seem to forget that the people you class as rulers are British citizens. I'll say no more

Erm...forgive my slowness, but I don't get your point here. I know that they're British citizens...

 

[Tyndale]

When I was In Ireland, I spent three months there, it seemed to me that the differences between the culture of the North and the Republic were profound. But I did not see that the differences warrented killing each other. So one lives in a Socialist Republic and the other lives in a Socialist Constitutional Monarchy. . I wish they would stop blowing it up.

Yes, your quote is noted, but may one ask how one is living in a Socialist Constitutional Monarchy ?

 

[Tyndale]

The British Isles are a wonderful aspect to life, they give one and aspiration, a life that one hadn't collected, a real achievement to one's desires.

 

[Pogue]

The British Isles are a wonderful aspect to life, they give one and aspiration, a life that one hadn't collected, a real achievement to one's desires.

I really didn't understand any of that. Either how it was relevant, or what it actually means.

 

[Tyndale]

I really didn't understand any of that. Either how it was relevant, or what it actually means.

hello Pogue,

There's a thread on hello Pogue, you're so cool. I know alot of friends who like you.

We've made a radio show on you see it here

 

[Pogue]

The British Isles are a wonderful aspect to life, they give one and aspiration, a life that one hadn't collected, a real achievement to one's desires.

hello Pogue,

There's a thread on hello Pogue, you're so cool. I know alot of friends who like you.

We've made a radio show on you see it here

What are you on about? I know I'm ill and I've got a cold, so things might seem a little surreal at the moment, but this makes no sense at all. Why have you linked to a wiki on John Donne? Is it because he converted to Anglicanism? Is this some way of dropping a hint that I should too? I'm trying to find some connection to the world of common sense here, but I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to get across. Sorry.

 

[kopilo]

They are also legit targets. Otherwise, everyone, in every war is a terrorist and the word loses all meaning.

No it doesn't and last time I checked war doctors would not fall under terrorism (just an example of why not everyone in a war could be considered a terrorist).

Political hype makes the word lose it's meaning.

 

[Tyndale]

What are you on about? I know I'm ill and I've got a cold, so things might seem a little surreal at the moment, but this makes no sense at all. Why have you linked to a wiki on John Donne? Is it because he converted to Anglicanism? Is this some way of dropping a hint that I should too? I'm trying to find some connection to the world of common sense here, but I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to get across. Sorry.

Victims count Pogue, no matter who they are, aye?

 

[Pogue]

Victims count Pogue, no matter who they are, aye?

OK, so this is a sentence constructed in English, which I can understand, and respond to. So yes, they do. But I don't understand the knowing wink, or any of your previous post, or how this post relates to the last one. Could you explain?

 

[Tyndale]

God bless you Pogue.

jesus saves and he loves you

 

[DLaurier]

The original "Terrorists" were officials of the french republican, Department of Public Safety.
Their job was to arrest and execute anyone who was denounced as having pro-monarchist thoughts or sympathys.
The "Terrorists" took their victims to the Bastile in Paris, Where they waited their turn to be feed through Dr Guillotin's wonderfull execution machine.
Eventualy the "terrorists" themselves were denounced, They arrested eachother , and executed eachother.
Untill here was only one "terrorist" left in France.
He read his name on a list of the newly denounced, So he arrested himself for anti republican thoughts. And executed himself according to French law.
A few weeks later a corsican general overthrew the republic.

 

[Maxwell511]

You see Maxwell, if it wasn't for the plantations in the 17th century of the lowland Scots into their homeland of Ulster, the Ulaid/Uliti people could heave been permantly known as Dál Fiatach and their British/Germanic heritage lost forever.

But the Ulaid were Celtic I don't understand how you could think that they had Germanic heritage. Any of it that does exist here was of foreign origin to the island and was imported in by the Normans in the 12th century (most of whom abandoned it) and the Plantations in the 17th century. I can understand the British heritage part as in the Brythonic Celts connection to them (although while some of the Ulaid were Brythonic not all them were, such as the Dál Rialta that implanted the beginnings of the modern Scottish Gaelic language) but not in the Anglo-Saxon part.

 

[Tyndale]

But the Ulaid were Celtic

The worlds leading historians can't even agree who the Celts or celtic people were. Simon James, formerly of the British Museum, in his book The Atlantic Celts: Ancient People or Modern Invention? makes the point that the Romans never used the term "Celtic" (or, rather, a cognate in Latin) in reference to the peoples of Britain and Ireland, and points out that the modern term "Celt" was coined as a useful umbrella term in the early 18t century to distinguish the non-English/Germanic inhabitants.

 

[Allister]

The Celtic nations/people are not confined to the British Isles.

 

[Tyndale]

The Celtic nations/people are not confined to the British Isles.

That's right, but it's also worth noticing that these people were never promoted as Celts until the 18th century. Yes, there was a mass of seperate peoples in Europe who used similar tools and techniques, but they most certainly didn't come under one banner of being Celtic or Celts.