Temporary Policy Measure -- Only Theistic Evolutionists may post in this forum

[Letalis]

TE forum members,

God's peace be with you.

As a temporary measure, until further notice, all non-Theistic Evolutionist members will no longer be allowed to post in the "Theistic Evolution" subforum.

Non-TE posts will be deleted for rule 2.8 -- off-topic. Warnings will be issued to these posters that continue to post in this forum after being instructed not to.

Any questions that a non-TE forum member has for Theistic Evolutionists can be asked in the Origins Theology forum. Fellowship between Creationists and TEs can take place in the "Krazy Kafeteria," stickied in the Origins Theology forum.

We do this in the hopes of TE members, as well as Creationists, a safe haven in their individual forums.

Blessings,

Letalis
Administrator
Team Theology

 

[Mallon]

Sorry to hear that. I hope it doesn't last. We always welcomed posts form non-TEs in here.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Sorry to hear that. I hope it doesn't last. We always welcomed posts form non-TEs in here.

Yes, I've never seen a YEC chased out or reported in here.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

I protest this rule change for the TE forum. To my knowledge it was not asked for nor wanted by any TE.

If the creationist subforum wishes to wall itself off from the rest of the forum, that is their problem.

This is a misguided attempt at being fair and I feel that it runs counter to the slogan of Christian Forums "Uniting all Christians as one Body."

 

[Letalis]

First I would like to make clear that this is temporary -- not permanent. The goal here is to "start afresh." Once that has happened, we can rebuild and come up with a more lasting policy.

The priority of this forum, and the Creationist subforum, is a safe haven for those that adhere to Creationism (for the Creationist subforum) and TE (for the Theistic Evolution subforum). The main forum, Origins Theology, is where debating between the two groups should be taking place -- not in these safe havens.

Nothing has changed as far as rules go, except temporarily, instead of interactive fellowship posts between the two groups taking place in your individual safe havens, they now must take place in the Origins Theology forum. Debating between the two groups was already against the rules of these two subforums.

 

[The Lady Kate]

First I would like to make clear that this is temporary -- not permanent. The goal here is to "start afresh." Once that has happened, we can rebuild and come up with a more lasting policy.

Sounds fair, but for the record...

The priority of this forum, and the Creationist subforum, is a safe haven for those that adhere to Creationism (for the Creationist subforum) and TE (for the Theistic Evolution subforum). The main forum, Origins Theology, is where debating between the two groups should be taking place -- not in these safe havens.

I don't think any TE, and certainly not I, have ever asked for, or needed, a "safe haven" in the first place. I know one of the reasons I'm so rarely in here is because I welcome the debate.... truth be told, it gets a bit slow in here sometimes... no offense, boys.

There have been Creationists coming in here, some for fellowship, some to ask questions, and yes, some to debate, but I don't think anyone's ever gone up in arms over it.

This forum is for any Christian to discuss Theistic Evolution... I don't recall anyone being chased out.

Now, the Creationists wanted, requested, and got a place where their ideas could not be debated or challenged... and that's fine. The TE forum, from what I've been told, was never specifically requested, but granted in the interest in fairness.

The point is, you don't need to treat both subforums "equally" since the circumstances under which the forums were created were not equal in the first place.

 

[shernren]

Sounds fair, but for the record...



I don't think any TE, and certainly not I, have ever asked for, or needed, a "safe haven" in the first place. I know one of the reasons I'm so rarely in here is because I welcome the debate.... truth be told, it gets a bit slow in here sometimes... no offense, boys.

There have been Creationists coming in here, some for fellowship, some to ask questions, and yes, some to debate, but I don't think anyone's ever gone up in arms over it.

This forum is for any Christian to discuss Theistic Evolution... I don't recall anyone being chased out.

Now, the Creationists wanted, requested, and got a place where their ideas could not be debated or challenged... and that's fine. The TE forum, from what I've been told, was never specifically requested, but granted in the interest in fairness.

The point is, you don't need to treat both subforums "equally" since the circumstances under which the forums were created were not equal in the first place.

To be fair, I think I can recall one or two instances where a new creationist came right in asking why we were all Bible-burning heretics and was politely redirected to the OT forum. There have also been one or two cases where a poster has come in to survey opinions, and since this is a TE forum they have been told that they will not get a representative view.

So there are at least two cases where the TE character of this forum has not been conducive for non-TE participation: newcomers thinking this is an appropriate place to outright blast TEs to bits, and people wishing to canvass popular opinion. Having said that, I would agree with the rest of what Lady Kate said. This forum's purpose has never really been to shelter TEs.

 

[Deamiter]

I certainly hope such a rule does not become permenant! Polls surveying TE beliefs or questions trying to clarify our faith are entirely welcome here! Heck, I'd even welcome correction from a creationist here even if I didn't agree -- I don't particularly see any value in preaching to the choir and when I've been interested in pursuing some bit of theistic evolution, I generally just search the OT forum, and find a post that answers my questions or at the very least tells me where to look.

 

[gluadys]

I, for one, welcome questions from non-TEs in this forum. Since it is not a debate forum, I have greater trust that the questioners are sincerely seeking information. And they can get it here without it being challenged by conflicting viewpoints.

On the rare occasion where the questioner begins to debate, then a recommendation to take the thread to the OT forum is in order.

 

[Letalis]

I don't think any TE, and certainly not I, have ever asked for, or needed, a "safe haven" in the first place. I know one of the reasons I'm so rarely in here is because I welcome the debate.... truth be told, it gets a bit slow in here sometimes... no offense, boys.

That's what this forum and the Creationist subforum were created to be: safe havens. It was never meant to be an extension of the Origins Theology forum.

I have no problem applying this policy only to the Creationist subforum, if that is what you would prefer. If so, I hope such a move will not be viewed as unfair.

 

[Jase]

That's what this forum and the Creationist subforum were created to be: safe havens. It was never meant to be an extension of the Origins Theology forum.

I have no problem applying this policy only to the Creationist subforum, if that is what you would prefer. If so, I hope such a move will not be viewed as unfair.

I think the general opinion from TE's here is that they don't need non-TE's being unable to post here. TE's don't mind questions about what they believe because Theistic evolutionism is under less scrutiny. No offense to the creationists, but it seems like they feel they need to wall everyone else off because their beliefs rest on shaky ground. If that's how they want it that's fine, but I see no reason why the TE and Creationists forums should be treated entirely equal when the members of each subforum want the rules in place for different reasons ( creationists to prevent criticism of their beliefs, and TE's to welcome questions about evolution).

 

[Letalis]

I think the general opinion from TE's here is that they don't need non-TE's being unable to post here. TE's don't mind questions about what they believe because Theistic evolutionism is under less scrutiny. No offense to the creationists, but it seems like they feel they need to wall everyone else off because their beliefs rest on shaky ground. If that's how they want it that's fine, but I see no reason why the TE and Creationists forums should be treated entirely equal when the members of each subforum want the rules in place for different reasons ( creationists to prevent criticism of their beliefs, and TE's to welcome questions about evolution).

I wouldn't say that is the reason. Speaking as a Catholic, I can understand having your beliefs under constant scrutiny. Defending your beliefs at every moment is tiring. Having a safe haven where you can discuss with like minded people can be a nice break from that.

I am considering removing the policy for this forum and implementing it only in the Creationist section.

 

[chaoschristian]

How temporary is temporary?

What does 'temporary until further notice' mean?

What can we do to ensure that this temporary is as short as possible?

And is there precedent for this Letalis? What other forums have been locked-down like this in the past?

What rationale is being used to enforce a restriction on specific classes of people as opposed to just the rules violators of that class?

 

[Letalis]

How temporary is temporary?

I can't give a set time frame.

What can we do to ensure that this temporary is as short as possible?

Don't post in their forum during this time.

When it's over, don't debate in their forum.

And is there precedent for this Letalis? What other forums have been locked-down like this in the past?

Several forums have "lock downs." The most obvious example would be the entire CO section. Another would be much of the Ministry section, which is based on age or gender. Most of these are based on icon selection. However, this isn't an option for us.

 

[chaoschristian]

Several forums have "lock downs." The most obvious example would be the entire CO section. Another would be much of the Ministry section, which is based on age or gender. Most of these are based on icon selection. However, this isn't an option for us.

That's not a valid comparison. Those restrictions are known and recognized ahead of time.

While the no debate rule has existed for some time for each of the sub-forums, fellowship has always been allowed.

I can think of instances where fellowship has occurred in both places in an attempt to build relationship and foster fellowship.

This is akin to locking down OBOB and the Baptist forum over disputes about infant baptism.

I am going to plead with you here and ask that you set a specific time frame for this so that we have clear parameters to work with.

 

[Letalis]

That's not a valid comparison. Those restrictions are known and recognized ahead of time.

I believe that the comparison is valid in that they also have "lock downs" based on age, gender, or belief.

I am going to plead with you here and ask that you set a specific time frame for this so that we have clear parameters to work with.

I can't give a time frame because it is based on information I don't have at the moment. Depending on how this policy goes, then we will be able to decide on when to remove it. I also don't want to make any promises and later be forced to break them.

 

[Jase]

I wouldn't say that is the reason. Speaking as a Catholic, I can understand having your beliefs under constant scrutiny. Defending your beliefs at every moment is tiring. Having a safe haven where you can discuss with like minded people can be a nice break from that.

I understand not wanting to always be under scrutiny. I spent 3 years as a YEC debating on an atheist board. Talk about spiritually draining. But why is creationism under such scrutiny? It's because it has nothing to support it. When you reject all physical evidence, rely on Hovind's arguments for support, and plead to a dubious interpretation of the Bible in the wrong language, you have to expect a significant amount of criticism. One need only look at the fact that creationists have to invent a dozen different things to call themselves because no one can agree on what creationism is really based on, from YEC, to OEC, to Gap theory to Young biological creationist. At least this is a Christian only section so there is a degree of respect from both sides. If you can't stand up to Christian scrutiny, how are you ever going to witness to non-believers? They are harsh.

That's at least my opinion on where the disparity of views come from regarding what rules to apply to each forum.

 

[constance]

We are currently evaluating different permanent solutions. We will be re-evaluating in a month with a poll about the policy to see how the members of each forum feel this temporary policy has worked.

 

[chaoschristian]

I believe that the comparison is valid in that they also have "lock downs" based on age, gender, or belief.

I think I am failing to communicate my point. Let me think about it for a bit and get back to you on why this comparison isn't going to work.

I can't give a time frame because it is based on information I don't have at the moment. Depending on how this policy goes, then we will be able to decide on when to remove it. I also don't want to make any promises and later be forced to break them.

Policy? If this is a temporary solution to a temporary problem then how can it be policy already?

Here's my concern: from my experience when temporary solutions are not given strict parameters they often turn into permanent solutions by default. This happens despite the fact that better solutions exist and can be implemented. If we do not identify clear parameters for this current lock down, my concern is that it will become the solution, because its done, it wasy easy and the problem is solved for at least one involved party. I think we must, because of our ministry, strive for something better than that. To work at a better way that will probably be harder to achieve but more missional in the end.

Again, am I pleading with you to set a limit so that we are working within a set of specific boundaries.

 

[chaoschristian]

We are currently evaluating different permanent solutions. We will be re-evaluating in a month with a poll about the policy to see how the members of each forum feel this temporary policy has worked.

Constance, are you saying that the current lock-down is going to last at least a month?