Temporary Forum Closures (including DISCUSS RULES)

constance · May 26, 2007

If people (members/staff) feel that the new system is not working it will be scrapped. However, please note that DR was NOT working as it was before, so we just can't go back to the way it was. Our options are to work with this framework (tweaking it as we can) or dissolve the forum. I don't want to do that. I know a lot of people want this forum.

CaDan · May 26, 2007

constance said:
If people (members/staff) feel that the new system is not working it will be scrapped. However, please note that DR was NOT working as it was before, so we just can't go back to the way it was. Our options are to work with this framework (tweaking it as we can) or dissolve the forum. I don't want to do that. I know a lot of people want this forum.

What does "NOT working" mean in this context?

constance · May 26, 2007

Not working/old DR:

Personal attacks, at best guised thinly as a question.
Some Staff unable to participate
No member insight into why posts were deleted/edited
Once the thread went off it quickly snowballed
Too easy to get someone else's thread closed
Too many warnings/infractions as a result of rules violations
So hostile that many members and staff wouldn't go there (and so we missed out on their comments)
pitted staff against members, fostering an air of distrust.
Difficult to keep staff on this team because it's literally painful.

Not working - New DR:
carbon copy symptoms of the above.

drstevej · May 26, 2007

Constance, I appreciate your responsiveness in this thread.

Steve

constance · May 26, 2007

No problem. I appreciate the teamwork that everyone is showing.

Petunia · May 27, 2007

A few hours .. or even a day for an answer seems reasonable to me. As staff has other obligations and other forums to attend to. Also, there may need to be time for staff to discuss answers and solutions. And to decide whether a question or comment should be approved or not.

Edit to add: What's the need for a rush anyway? Anyone in that big of a hurry for an answer probably can use a few hours for a break anyway.

Naomi4Christ · May 27, 2007

Petunia said:
A few hours .. or even a day for an answer seems reasonable to me. As staff has other obligations and other forums to attend to. Also, there may need to be time for staff to discuss answers and solutions. And to decide whether a question or comment should be approved or not.

Edit to add: What's the need for a rush anyway? Anyone in that big of a hurry for an answer probably can use a few hours for a break anyway.

Hi Petunia

I see us approving posts straightaway.

It may then take time for us to respond to the posts - some will get answers rightaway, others will require some thought and research, and others may have to wait for another team to give the response.

GreenMunchkin · May 27, 2007

constance said:
If people (members/staff) feel that the new system is not working it will be scrapped. However, please note that DR was NOT working as it was before, so we just can't go back to the way it was. Our options are to work with this framework (tweaking it as we can) or dissolve the forum. I don't want to do that. I know a lot of people want this forum.

Fanka for answering

A New Dawn · May 27, 2007

Crazy Liz said:
So you're suggesting people find an Admin they trust and ask them a question the Admin can't answer?

The question you would be asking shouldn't be done for you to have that information, but for staff to have the information so they can take the appropriate actions.

I would think that "We don't see anything wrong at this time" might be an appropriate answer (if it is true).

tall73 · May 27, 2007

constance said:
Not working/old DR:...

Some Staff unable to participate....

Not working - New DR:
carbon copy symptoms of the above.

Wasn't this a function of staff policy? How would that happen again in the new DR apart from staff policy?

TomUK · May 27, 2007

First of all i think tall's question above is a good one. Under this new DR will staff protocol be relaxed and actually allow staff to participate in discussion of policy?
Secondly i'm still not convinced that the consequence of this reform won't result in a stifling of discussion.

However, i am encouraged by some of the responses in this thread and belief that my gut reaction to the idea was not at all fair. I am prepared to give it a go and see what happens. I do still believe that this is an excessive response and that there were a few intermediatory steps that should have been taken before hand. However i do think that overall this an approach that may be beneficial to the DR. I do have one final question. What systems are in place to check that the new DR is either working or not working? Are there policies or targets whose failure to meet would indicate a deficient system? If this is a trial then CF must have some way of determining whether the trial is a success or not - what are they?

AngelAmidala · May 27, 2007

Petunia said:
A few hours .. or even a day for an answer seems reasonable to me. As staff has other obligations and other forums to attend to.

I'm glad that you made this comment.

For me it is actually frustrating when someone poses a question and then is upset when an answer isn't given within half an hour. (This may be a bit of an exaggeration.) As much as I love CF, I can not be on it 24/7 nor can I be in DR or any forum along those lines 24/7. I'm barely keeping my patience in check being on now (even with images turned off CF doesn't play nice with my dial-up connection at home). So I'm glad that someone made note that they'd be okay with it if something wasn't approved the second they made a post.

I also wanted to say that the discussion in this thread has been very productive. I have enjoyed reading the suggestions, especially from those who participate rather regularly in the DR forum. And it's got me thinking about quite a number of things...both on the technical side of the forum as well as the handling side.

CaDan · May 27, 2007

Is there a place anywhere on CF for discussing changes to be implemented in the political forums?

constance · May 27, 2007

tall73 said:
Wasn't this a function of staff policy? How would that happen again in the new DR apart from staff policy?

for example, if we changed staff policy to allow all staff to post...but found that a number of staffers had some difficulty posting within the parameters.

constance · May 27, 2007

CaDan said:
Is there a place anywhere on CF for discussing changes to be implemented in the political forums?

Hi - please let me get back to you on that. Thanks.

Crazy Liz · May 28, 2007

constance said:
Not working/old DR:

Personal attacks, at best guised thinly as a question.
Some Staff unable to participate
No member insight into why posts were deleted/edited
Once the thread went off it quickly snowballed
Too easy to get someone else's thread closed
Too many warnings/infractions as a result of rules violations
So hostile that many members and staff wouldn't go there (and so we missed out on their comments)
pitted staff against members, fostering an air of distrust.
Difficult to keep staff on this team because it's literally painful.

Not working - New DR:
carbon copy symptoms of the above.

How do you think the new system will help with the bolded item above if Rule 3.8 continues to apply?

constance · May 28, 2007

because there will be discussion between the conciliators and the member and staff when a post not approved. This will mean there will be discussion of interpretation and policy and everyone will learn.

TomUK · May 28, 2007

Any response to my question before, Constance? What are the criteria to determine whether this new policy is a success or not?

Crazy Liz · May 28, 2007

constance said:
because there will be discussion between the conciliators and the member and staff when a post not approved. This will mean there will be discussion of interpretation and policy and everyone will learn.

Everybody?

Maybe the member whose post is disapproved, the Conciliators & a staff member. But I don't see how this results in everybody learning.

Sorry.

constance · May 29, 2007

fine. everyone involved in the process will have the opportunity to learn.

Temporary Forum Closures (including DISCUSS RULES)

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