tell me why

[12volt_man]

A lot of people also sit on death row and are found innocent. How many innocent people fried in the chair prior to DNA evidence for crimes they didn't commit? The court isn't always right it is ran by MAN.

Irrelevant. This is another topic for another thread.

Out of the groups I listed only 3 were not Christian organizations out of 17.

So then you concede that not all of the groups on the list are Christian.

Thank you.

One was a law group hired by Christian because they also represented allowing bible and Christian clubs in schools - which I see nothing wrong with.

So, how does their stand in favor of allowing Bible and Christian clubs in schools show that they are in favor of persecuting gays?

The other two were fundamentalist abortion groups

Yes, and...?

The topic is homosexuality, not abortion.

How does the fact that they are pro-life show that they persecute gays?

Further, do you plan to back up your claim that they support the execution of gays or not?

I cited my information

You still haven't shown us where in scripture the Bible teaches that there are "high sins" and, presumably, "low sins."

You still haven't shown us where the Bible says that we should harrass gays.

You still haven't shown us your New York Times source.

You still haven't shown us where we can locate the CNN clips you claim exist.

You still haven't shown us an example from mainstream Christianity of Christians persecuting gays.

You still haven't answered my question as to why what you're doing by trying to demonize anyone who you believe goes against the status quo morally different than what you claim Christians are doing to gays when they allegedly try to demonize them.

You still haven't shown us that the two groups you claimed wanted to execute gays actually do. Again, such a strong accusation warrants proof on your part.

You still haven't shown us how any of these groups have attacked anyone.

So please don't insult our intelligence by telling us that you have cited your sources and answered the questions put before you.

and instead of addressing issues I prove you wrong on with articles you move on to a way of discrediting them

Actually, I've addressed every issue you've brought up that was relevant to this topic and even a couple that weren't.

Please feel free to show what issue I've avoided.

Second, you haven't proven me wrong on anything.

Again, you cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair.

That's rather vital information, don't you think?

Then, you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christians persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.

You still haven't attempted to demonstrate their claim (which now becomes your claim, since you are using them as a reference to make your case) that two of the groups advocate the execution of gays.

Why can't you accept homosexuals are discrimated against and treated differently by a large majority of the Christian community.

Actually, I've said twice now that I believe that gays face discrimination in society.

Many other Christians on here have and express their un acceptance for this but they agree it happens.[/

As have I.

You will probably also not admit their is racism in this country because you don't have proof.

The question is irrelevant, but did you know that my mother's car was fire bombed by the KKK because she was registering blacks to vote in the 60's?

Did you know that my dad was targeted by the Klan because he founded a Junior Achievement chapter and a mentoring program to young black children in Bessemer, Al, in the 70's?

 

[hernyaccent]

Irrelevant. This is another topic for another thread.



So then you concede that not all of the groups on the list are Christian.

Thank you.



So, how does their stand in favor of allowing Bible and Christian clubs in schools show that they are in favor of persecuting gays?



Yes, and...?

The topic is homosexuality, not abortion.

How does the fact that they are pro-life show that they persecute gays?

Further, do you plan to back up your claim that they support the execution of gays or not?



You still haven't shown us where in scripture the Bible teaches that there are "high sins" and, presumably, "low sins."

You still haven't shown us where the Bible says that we should harrass gays.

You still haven't shown us your New York Times source.

You still haven't shown us where we can locate the CNN clips you claim exist.

You still haven't shown us an example from mainstream Christianity of Christians persecuting gays.

You still haven't answered my question as to why what you're doing by trying to demonize anyone who you believe goes against the status quo morally different than what you claim Christians are doing to gays when they allegedly try to demonize them.

You still haven't shown us that the two groups you claimed wanted to execute gays actually do. Again, such a strong accusation warrants proof on your part.

You still haven't shown us how any of these groups have attacked anyone.

So please don't insult our intelligence by telling us that you have cited your sources and answered the questions put before you.



Actually, I've addressed every issue you've brought up that was relevant to this topic and even a couple that weren't.

Please feel free to show what issue I've avoided.

Second, you haven't proven me wrong on anything.

Again, you cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair.

That's rather vital information, don't you think?

Then, you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christians persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.

You still haven't attempted to demonstrate their claim (which now becomes your claim, since you are using them as a reference to make your case) that two of the groups advocate the execution of gays.



Actually, I've said twice now that I believe that gays face discrimination in society.



As have I.



The question is irrelevant, but did you know that my mother's car was fire bombed by the KKK because she was registering blacks to vote in the 60's?

Did you know that my dad was targeted by the Klan because he founded a Junior Achievement chapter and a mentoring program to young black children in Bessemer, Al, in the 70's?

"So, how does their stand in favor of allowing Bible and Christian clubs in schools show that they are in favor of persecuting gays?"

It shows they are representing the interest of Christian groups.They are the groups blocking them form having the same rights as heterosexuals.

"Again, you cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair."

You fail the mention the rest of the article.

"Actually, I've said twice now that I believe that gays face discrimination in society."

Okay so you agree with my point.

"The question is irrelevant, but did you know that my mother's car was fire bombed by the KKK because she was registering blacks to vote in the 60's?

Did you know that my dad was targeted by the Klan because he founded a Junior Achievement chapter and a mentoring program to young black children in Bessemer, Al, in the 70's?"

So it's only valid if its your personal experiences. I have experienced gays get stabs,beat and attacked by people just because of their sexuality.

"You still haven't shown us where the Bible says that we should harrass gays."

If you read the context of my statement about christians harrassing homosexuals you would understand that I was trying to state the fact that those that do harass them do it in the name of the BIBLE. Perhaps Rev. Phelps and his followers in YOUR eyes and in MAIN STREAM CHRISTIAN eyes aren't christian but there are MANY fundamentalist christians who support his activities.

"You still haven't shown us your New York Times source.

You still haven't shown us where we can locate the CNN clips you claim exist."

I informed you the locate the documentary at your local library or video store and pay close attention.

"You still haven't shown us an example from mainstream Christianity of Christians persecuting gays."
The mainstream aren't the only christians. I have saw examples of fundmentalist christians.

"You still haven't shown us how any of these groups have attacked anyone."

Protesting funerals isn't attacking anyone? I am sure if one of your children ( if you have any) died regardless if they were gay or not ...you would feel attacked if people protested at their funeral.

"So please don't insult our intelligence by telling us that you have cited your sources and answered the questions put before you."
Only YOU are trying to argue with me.

"you cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair."

How many other examples were in that article? You point out what makes you look good.

"you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christians persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.
"
TurnOUT! Know Thy Enemy: Anti-Gay Organizations

I clearly posted not all the groups were christian but the majority of them are. The same way I said a large number of christians harrass and treat homosexuals differently. There won't be civil rights laws in place to protect homosexuals if this wasn't the case.

Blame the Bible

 

[12volt_man]

It shows they are representing the interest of Christian groups.They are the groups blocking them form having the same rights as heterosexuals.

You're attempting to back up an unsubstantiated claim with an unsubstantiated claim.

You can't say that they're persecuting gays because they want to "blocking them form having the same rights as heterosexuals", without showing that they have, in fact, done this.

So it's only valid if its your personal experiences. I have experienced gays get stabs,beat and attacked by people just because of their sexuality.

No, it is valid regardless of my personal experience. I'm simply explaning that, despite your claims, I am familiar with racism and the discrimination that some people face in society.

If you read the context of my statement about christians harrassing homosexuals you would understand that I was trying to state the fact that those that do harass them do it in the name of the BIBLE.

Yes, you've said that several times now. Now, are you going to show us where the Bible teaches this or not?

Perhaps Rev. Phelps and his followers in YOUR eyes and in MAIN STREAM CHRISTIAN eyes aren't christian but there are MANY fundamentalist christians who support his activities.

But there aren't "many fundamentalist Christians" who support him.

Go to any fundamentalist message board where there is a thread about him and he is denounced and ridiculed across the board.

If you believe that mainstream fundamentalists support him, then why can't you give us an example?

I informed you the locate the documentary at your local library or video store and pay close attention.

No, you told us that you came by this information by researching a New York Times article and you claimed that "CNN clips" further backed up your claims.

Now, can you show us these or not?

The mainstream aren't the only christians. I have saw examples of fundmentalist christians.

First of all, fundamentists are a part of mainstream Christianity.

Second, since it is the mainstream of Christianity who represent the, er, mainstream of Christianity, who you are accusing, you need to give an example.

Protesting funerals isn't attacking anyone? I am sure if one of your children ( if you have any) died regardless if they were gay or not ...you would feel attacked if people protested at their funeral.

Again, you're trying to demonstrate an unsubstantiated claim by making an unsubstantiated claim.

Other than Westboro Baptist Church, who has been condemned by nearly every Christian given an opportunity to speak out about them, which one of these groups has done this?

Can you give an example or not?

How many other examples were in that article? You point out what makes you look good.

No, I pointed out what shows that the article is biased and deceptive. It is deceptive on your part to post the article, claiming that he recieved an unfair trial without also admitting that the appeal was thrown out by the 5th Circuit CoA because he couldn't show any evidence that he recieved an unfair trial.

TurnOUT! Know Thy Enemy: Anti-Gay Organizations

This link is merely the same list you cut and pasted before. What is this supposed to prove? We've already seen the list.

Of that list, several of the groups mentioned are not Christian to begin with, more have nothing to do with homosexuality one way or the other and two of them, you have falsely claimed that they want to execute gays without providing an example of their ever having said so or having done anything to lead you to that conclusion.

Blame the Bible

More baseless charges.

Only about 1/3 of this page deals with homosexuality and, of that, it's just the same old invective we've gotten from you.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "all hat, no cattle"?

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

" This is not a Christian action, but rather the actions of bullies and criminals."
--Many of these bullies and criminals claim to do it in the name of God.

Their claim does not make it the policy of Christianity. Many white Americans, attack black Americans but that is not the policy of the US Government. You will always be wrong, if you take the actions of a few and extrapolate it to the whole of a group. Individuals often get things wrongs and have really whacky reasons for doing things. Just watch Ricki Lake to see the stupidity of some Americans' reasons for doing things.

"I submit that both would be detrimental to the long term prosperity of the business as both would likely offend customers."

Once again I think that has to do with location,education and knowledge. I live in New York City and in almost every store I have been in their is a homosexual working there but I am sure that wouldn't be the case in a small town in Texas because of religious views.

Yes the situation and location does make a difference. The New Yorker client base, like the eastern Sydney client base probably wouldn't care less. However the Texan or country New South Wales client base most certainly would.

Therefore the NY business person might freely not care about the sexual preferences of their staff, however the Texan business person would suffer financial loss if they were not discriminating in their employee selection. It is all about knowing your clients and meeting THEIR needs and expectations.

Now in a government organisation, this is not an issue and most public sector postions are ruled by strict anti-discrimination policies.

How is it that you spot a homosexual?
http://www.bunim-murray.com/assets/shows/photos/rwph_cast_karamo He is a homosexual if you saw him working in a store would you think he was? He doesn't act female nor dress any different then an urban mail. http://www.yugarproductions.com/user/RACHELRR.jpg Does she look like a lesbian? She is.

The first link errors to a 404 page. Since homosexuality is a Sin, and one that is usually practiced in open and knowledgable rebellion against the teachings of the Bible, there is a strong spiritual element to the sin and its consequences. This is one reason why most homosexual men have an effeminite air about them, even if they are not the 'woman' of the couple. Likewise many lesbian women have a 'hardness' about them even if they are not the 'man' of the couple. That second link, I could not say for sure whether she was or wasn't but there is a hardness about her facial expression.

A reasonably discerning individual can easily spot these signs. Certainly not 100% of the time, but definitely better than 50% of the time.

Who a person sleeps with at night isn't evident in their physical appearance or a title or anything for that matter.

Already covered above. I submit that over time it does become more and more evident both in appearance and in behaviour.

I am going to be a physician within the next in five years ( hopefully if I can make it through medical school in that time) and talking to many other minority physicians I am informed that patient get OFFENDED because they don't want a Negro doctor or nurse and if that is the case then the feel "let me die or remain sick". Does that mean that because I am African American that I should let my patient die because of their request? Point being people get offended by race,gender,age, sexuality and anything else....WHO CARES?

I hope that you learn from here how to express yourself well and mount an argument with good supports, that have been properly researched, because I expect medical school will expect that of you.

"Those things that you say are accepted are in fact not accepted within Christian circles. "
They aren't...

Meanwhile, back in New Jersey, The New York Times reports that Raymond and Venessa Jackson who have been accused of starving their four adopted boys were welcomed with open arms by their congregation.

The Rev. Harry Thomas, pastor of the Jacksons' church, helped raise the $20,000 in cash needed to make bail of $200,000 for the two parents Saturday night. The Jacksons made a triumphant return to the church Sunday, receiving a standing ovation from the congregation. The couple is barred from having contact with their nonbiological children, and have moved to a secret location to tape the CBS program and to visit with their four biological children. Still to come may be Congressional hearings. Representative Wally Herger, a California Republican and chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee's Subcommittee on Human Resources, announced last week that a hearing would be held soon on the plight of the boys.

Members of the Jacksons' church, which donated more than $10,000 last month to pay the family's overdue electric bill and back rent, were quick to defend the couple.

Dan Hutchins, 34, a church member, said the Jacksons had baby-sat for his two children for about five years. "None of it is true," he said of the allegations against the Jacksons. "They are just phenomenal, phenomenal people."

​

The Jacksons and their supporters have set up a website, savethejacksons.org to refute the allegations that they are abusive parents and to raise money for their defense.




The NYT also states (as has been widely reported elsewhere):

Mr. and Mrs. Jackson were arrested Oct. 24, two weeks after a neighbor in Collingswood, N.J., found their adopted son Bruce, 19 years old but standing only 4 feet tall and weighing less than 50 pounds, out rummaging in the garbage for food late at night​

This heterosexual couple has four severely malnourished children in their home in addition to other adopted and biological children, they are unemployed and $10,000 behind in rent and utility bills, New Jersey child-welfare workers didn't seem to notice any problems and where considering giving them another child to adopt.

Based on your posting this case is not yet decided. Only an accusation has been made. Until guilt has been proven why should they not get support. If one of your close friends was charged with 'gay bashing' would you drop them immediately and refush to support them, or would you still support them because they are your friend, at least until their guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt?

If this couple is found guilty, then they should receive the full weight of legal sanction against them. Their Christianity could be questioned if they see no problem in behaving like this, but if they fully repent of these actions, and learn to be lead by the Spirit of God, rather than the selfishness of the spirit of man, then they will certainly gain heaven. Otherwise they will likely not.

Christians are often accused of many things, which in the light of a full trial often fail to be adequately proven. Quite some time ago a Christian collegue of mine was accused of child molestation of a young boy & girl. This man had worked with needy people in childrens ministry for over 30 years. The current group of children that he brought to our church, were the grandchildren of the original children he worked with. There was much media attention, and extensive police investigation.

Ultimately no charges were laid, and it was later revealed that the boyfriend of the children's mother was an atheist and a newspaper journalist. Much of the media pressure and push for action came from this individual.

So while sometimes smoke indicates fire, at other times it is just a deliberate smoke screen.

Christians flock to their own even if they are wrong. There are other cases of this if you want me to find them I will but this is the most local one in my area.

The wrongness of a persons actions does not mean immediate exclusion, especially if there is repentance. However if their is no repentance, and continual sinful behaviour, you would see the Christian support dry up quite quickly.

"By offering them the truth of God's word prior to avoiding them."
So you tell them what God says and then go away?

Not an immediate thing. Like above, time is given to watch for change, but if a person is determined in their choice to continue to sin, they can do that without my support.

"Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death."
- We all die. So what everyone sees as ( christian or non christian) leads to death.

The difference is that it is not just what I think, or what I believe, my faith is based upon what God has revealed in His Word. So it is not something that seems right to me, it is something that Jesus Himself declared to be right.

On the other hand, what is the authority for your beliefs? Yourself?

I am glad someone can admit " God's WORD " is abused.

A person would need to have their head stuck under the sand like an ostrich to not be able to see that from history and current events. Just because some abuse it, does not invalidate its authority, authenticity, or relevance to our personal lives.

You wouldn't kick your child out for stealing a candy bar.

Nor should you for them being homosexual. But some situations might make that necessary. Are there younger children that might be influenced by their example? If a person is determined in their rebellion against God's authority, it is sometimes for their ultimate benefit to take a stand and show your disapproval. I pray that I might never be in this situation, because no matter what choices I made it would rip me apart emotionally.

The thing to keep in mind with this comparison, is did they take just one candy bar, or are they stealing one every week, year in and year out, and progressing to stealing bigger and more things. In the latter case, the compulsive thieving son, might the locks on my door changed as well. Then again maybe not. That would rip me apart emotionally as well. Because the continuing and compulsive thief, and the continuing and compulsive homosexual are both on a fast track to hell.

1Co 6:9-10 ESV
(9) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
(10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

"So do you agree that homosexuality is A sin, at least according to the Bible's definition of sin."
According to the Bible it's a sin but my heart says differently.

Again the question who has more authority God or YOUR heart? If you exalt yourself as a greater authority then God, then I think you know what the result will be.

"The existence of these writing has lasted through time, however the acceptance of their teachings, has not stood the test of time on a global scale."

Christianity was FORCED upon many by christians so many religions have died out.

Forced Christianity is NOT Christianity. If I hold a gun to your head and force you to confess Christ, that will not change your eternal destination one little bit. Unless a person freely chooses God, after hearing the Gospel message, then they will not be accepted into God's family. Effective evangelism, must always leave the door open to free choice.

If I am handing food out to starving people and say "I will only give it to those that are Christian" and you declare that you are Christian so that you can get the food, then guess what? You are still not a Christian. A Christian must FREELY choose Jesus as their LORD and Saviour.

 

[Saturn]

All three of the individuals above were proven clincally retarded or impaired yet only the homosexuals of the group were executed.

I don't support the insanity plea: mentally retarded or not, I would support the death penalty equally.

 

[Dragoon]

hernyaccent, I justed wanted to say that your statements really are over-exaggerated. You are angry because certain groups of Christians openly disciminate against gays, yet you don't seem to look at the rest of the Christian body. I realize that you never claimed that all Christians are like this, but it confuses me because why would you even make a topic about this if you didn't believe all Christians were like this? You sound very prejudiced to me.

Let me explain myself. We all agree that not all Muslims are wicked like Osama bin Laden, right? So in this case, I would never make a huge argument against Muslims, stating that they have negative views toward everyone else because no one else is like them. It would be fruitless to do this just for the mere fact that not every Muslim would blow other people up in the name of a religion. For this reason, I see your argument as prejudiced and outrageous. Also, to void your point about Christianity being the only condemning religion in the world, why not look at 9/11 and the Islamic people?

All in all, what I'm trying to say is stop blaming the faults of a few people on the entire group. Don't say you're not, because you have been mentioning throughout the entire thread that every Christian considers homosexuallity a worse sin then the rest. How do you know this? Sorry, but you seem to be the one disciminating here.

 

[hernyaccent]

hernyaccent, I justed wanted to say that your statements really are over-exaggerated. You are angry because certain groups of Christians openly disciminate against gays, yet you don't seem to look at the rest of the Christian body. I realize that you never claimed that all Christians are like this, but it confuses me because why would you even make a topic about this if you didn't believe all Christians were like this? You sound very prejudiced to me.

Let me explain myself. We all agree that not all Muslims are wicked like Osama bin Laden, right? So in this case, I would never make a huge argument against Muslims, stating that they have negative views toward everyone else because no one else is like them. It would be fruitless to do this just for the mere fact that not every Muslim would blow other people up in the name of a religion. For this reason, I see your argument as prejudiced and outrageous. Also, to void your point about Christianity being the only condemning religion in the world, why not look at 9/11 and the Islamic people?

All in all, what I'm trying to say is stop blaming the faults of a few people on the entire group. Don't say you're not, because you have been mentioning throughout the entire thread that every Christian considers homosexuallity a worse sin then the rest. How do you know this? Sorry, but you seem to be the one disciminating here.

"I realize that you never claimed that all Christians are like this, but it confuses me because why would you even make a topic about this if you didn't believe all Christians were like this?"
Some of the one that are happen to be represented here and I would like to know where they stand.

"You sound very prejudiced to me."
I am far from prejudice which is why I say SOME not all. I have experienced prejudice all my life for many reasons so I am far from that. If I was prejudice I wouldn't have cased a vote for a Christian president. I love many Christians and respect there beliefs. What I would love to know is why SOME can't do the same,

"to void your point about Christianity being the only condemning religion in the world, why not look at 9/11 and the Islamic people?"

I never said Christianity is the only condemning religion in the world. I am not talking about the world but about the United States. I think many religious organizations PERIOD condemns people not like themselves.

I am speaking to the Christians who try to bar homosexuals from doing things including but not limited to marriage. Plain and simple many people in this country discriminates against open homosexuals. A large amount of them use the bible to state that God doesn't agree with homosexuality therefore they don't agree with it either. I don't agree with Christianity but that doesn't mean I am going to try to bar Christians from holding public events. It's not my place and the first amendment gives people the right to express themselves.

Someone on here stated that hiring a homosexual in your business could be terrible because customers may be offended. What if people were to not hire. individuals because of their Christianity? How do you tell a homosexual from a heterosexual? YOU CAN'T.

"stop blaming the faults of a few people on the entire group"
You said yourself that I said SOME. If I am not mistaken Christians consider themselves to be the " family of GOD" so within your family there are individuals who hate and harass homosexuals.

"every Christian considers homosexuality a worse sin then the rest. How do you know this?"
Show me where I said EVERY?! I have always said some or many.

 

[Dragoon]

I am far from prejudice which is why I say SOME not all. I have experienced prejudice all my life for many reasons so I am far from that. If I was prejudice I wouldn't have cased a vote for a Christian president. I love many Christians and respect there beliefs. What I would love to know is why SOME can't do the same,

Then let me tell you why for them. Now, don't think I am like those Christians because I'm answering for them, but I think it is quite obvious why they are the way they are. We live in a sinful world, hernyaccent. In every group, organization, country, and even relationship, there will always be someone whose actions are very sinful. This is the case for anything, not just Christianity. The world is not perfect, people aren't perfect, and I'll say right now that religion isn't perfect. It's kind of a rhetorical question. I wouldn't ask muslims why some of them act the way they do when concerning suicide bombings because I already know that the ones that act that way are acting sinfully. But just because they act that way doesn't make the whole Muslim faith evil.

I never said Christianity is the only condemning religion in the world. I am not talking about the world but about the United States. I think many religious organizations PERIOD condemns people not like themselves.

I am speaking to the Christians who try to bar homosexuals from doing things including but not limited to marriage. Plain and simple many people in this country discriminates against open homosexuals. A large amount of them use the bible to state that God doesn't agree with homosexuality therefore they don't agree with it either. I don't agree with Christianity but that doesn't mean I am going to try to bar Christians from holding public events. It's not my place and the first amendment gives people the right to express themselves.

Someone on here stated that hiring a homosexual in your business could be terrible because customers may be offended. What if people were to not hire. individuals because of their Christianity? How do you tell a homosexual from a heterosexual? YOU CAN'T.

It would take me a while to find it in the topic, but I'm pretty sure that you said something like "I spent my time studying many religions and found that Christianity is the only one that condemns the others." I don't recall any mention of America only. Also, that statement is base-less for the fact that you can't possibly know what other religious organizations in America feel. It would be like going to an all-black church that spoke against whites and then making a judgment that all black churches are racist. There's no fact behind those kinds of statements.

And I do agree with you about the discriminating of homosexuals, but, as I said before, your target audience is a minor one. Also, not all those who disciminate are Christians.

You said yourself that I said SOME. If I am not mistaken Christians consider themselves to be the " family of GOD" so within your family there are individuals who hate and harass homosexuals.

Show me where I said EVERY?! I have always said some or many.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you claim that you said some (which I did agree that you did in one of your posts), but then you say that Christians consider themselves to be "the family of God", indicating that you believe that we act in agreement with one another (I wish this was true but with some Christians who act the way they do, it can't be attained at this time). Then you claim you said some or many again. I know what you're trying to say, but you are coming across in a confusing manner.

This is the way I see it. I have to ask, why would you even make a topic about this if you know that not every Christian is like this? Or maybe you don't know this? Whatever the case, the answer is simple. Just read my first response at the top of this post. God bless you, hernyaccent.

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

I am speaking to the Christians who try to bar homosexuals from doing things including but not limited to marriage. Plain and simple many people in this country discriminates against open homosexuals. A large amount of them use the bible to state that God doesn't agree with homosexuality therefore they don't agree with it either. I don't agree with Christianity but that doesn't mean I am going to try to bar Christians from holding public events. It's not my place and the first amendment gives people the right to express themselves.

The Bible declares homosexuality a sin. As Christians we therefore reject it as appropriate behaviour. Most open homosexuals are in open rebellion to the Bible either not believing it, or not accepting it as an authority in their lives. If that is the case then why would they want to be in a marriage relationship, since marriage is an institution created by God and described by God in His Word the Bible.

If homosexuals reject the verses that teach on homosexuality, why should they accept the ones that teach on marriage.

I also wonder "why" when non-believers want to have a 'church' wedding. It just doesn't make sense.

Someone on here stated that hiring a homosexual in your business could be terrible because customers may be offended. What if people were to not hire. individuals because of their Christianity? How do you tell a homosexual from a heterosexual? YOU CAN'T.

I disagree. Having worked at the Sydney Opera House, and our state's Supreme Court, where in one case there was a high homosexual percentage of staff, and in the other where at least one manager, and some staff and several clients where homosexual. I can confidently say that in many, many cases you certainly CAN tell the difference in a person's sexuality.

BTW, many businesses and organisation DO directly not hire people because of their Christianity.

 

[morningstar2651]

Not all gay men are fabulous queens. Not all straight men are meat-headed jocks.

Going by stereotypes, someone might classify me as gay. I'm straight.

I ballroom dance. I have a pair of dance shoes that cost me over $100. I know how to put on and remove makeup. I've worn makeup. I've worn women's clothing. I enjoy opera and classical music. I love Ludwig Van Beethoven. I read poetry.

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

I'm not sterotyping. I'm simply saying the very often it is quite discernable what a person's sexuality is. If this is obvious at a job interview, then it would likely be evident in customer exchanges.

If the employer is concerned about his customers' responses to that discernment then he/she will very likely find reason not to hire the person. It really is that simple.

 

[MJ421]

The Bible declares homosexuality a sin. As Christians we therefore reject it as appropriate behaviour. Most open homosexuals are in open rebellion to the Bible either not believing it, or not accepting it as an authority in their lives. If that is the case then why would they want to be in a marriage relationship, since marriage is an institution created by God and described by God in His Word the Bible.

You seem to forget that the federal government provides some 1,400 benifits and perks to married couples.

If homosexuals reject the verses that teach on homosexuality, why should they accept the ones that teach on marriage.

Marriage existed for thousands of years before Christ or Christianity. It was around before the Bible, it was around before Abraham. To think that Christianity has the deed to marriage is to ignore reality.

I also wonder "why" when non-believers want to have a 'church' wedding. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe the parents want it. Maybe they can't afford Hawaii or maybe Vegas just seems too tacky. Does it matter?

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

You seem to forget that the federal government provides some 1,400 benifits and perks to married couples.

So its just a grab for money then is it?

Marriage existed for thousands of years before Christ or Christianity. It was around before the Bible, it was around before Abraham. To think that Christianity has the deed to marriage is to ignore reality.

I didn't say it was a Christian institution. Marriage was not began by Jesus during His earthly walk. He did teach about family relationships though. Christian's don't only follow the New Testament, we have the WHOLE Bible.

This is where marriage began;

Gen 2:24-25 ESV
(24) Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
(25) And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

It was God's plan and design for mankind, it did not come from any other culture. It flowed from Adam down to his descendants, and then from Noah down through his family after the flood, and from their into all of the world's cultures.

So marriage is part of the Christian faith, it is also part of the Jewish faith. By descent it has also become part of most other religions as well.

However, if one is aetheist, and denies the existence of God then why adopt the relationship model He created. If one is agnostic and not sure about the existence of God, then adopting the marriage relationship model is actually saying deep down the unbeliever, does recognize the existence of God. If not then why follow His teachings.

Maybe the parents want it. Maybe they can't afford Hawaii or maybe Vegas just seems too tacky. Does it matter?

I am certain they are not the only options. Most states would have marriage registries, and there is a plethora of celebrants who will do garden weddings.

Does it matter? Yes I believe it does. A church wedding is a Christian ceremony that presuposes upon the couple the acceptance God's rule and reign in their life and marriage. If this is not the case then they are being hypocrites, saying the words of the ceremony but not meaning them in their hearts.

 

[12volt_man]

OK, hernyaccent,

It took me a couple of days to get the video but thanks to a friend at TLA video in Philadelphia, I was able to watch it at work this morning.

Just as I suspected, not only do they not show that all of the jury members are Christians, not one time in the video do they even try to make that argument.

They simply asked, as is asked in all capital punishment cases, whether or not their client can get a fair trial in a given area, given the moral and political climate there.

So far, you've been proven to be wrong about virtually everything you've said so why I would be surprised that the video would turn up to be a great big goose egg for your argument, I don't know.

You're the one who challenged me to watch it. I guess it never occured to you that I'd take you up on it, huh?

 

[12volt_man]

bump

 

[12volt_man]

Anytime you're ready, hernyaccent.

 

[12volt_man]

Hernyaccent,

I've given you almost two weeks to back up your claims and explain yourself.

Since you haven't, despite repeated requests here and elsewhere, I guess it's safe for us to conclude that you really don't have a clue after all.

I guess you must have been, shall we say, less than honest when you said that there was a New York Times article (the same NYT, by the way, that, within the last two years, fired half of it's editorial staff and three reporters for fabricating stories) and CNN story.

 

[12volt_man]

bump